Has anyone attempted to use this pump in there HERMs system. http://www.ebay.ca/itm/12V-Solar-Ho...463497?hash=item58b5b1ffc9:g:vnAAAOSwq7JUIoLW It was recommended on here when I asked about pumps but tried it for the first time today and holy nightmare. First I am sure 90% of the issue was my fault but not sure. I did have it hooked up to 24VAC rather then DC so not sure how much that will screw with it. I had it connected to a doorbell transformer. Blew 2 doorbell transformers before I realized it was DC not AC. My bad. But my question is will DC power really make much of a difference. I was barely able to pump water from the bottom of my HLT to recirc it into the top of it. Wouldnt even start pushing it through my HERMs coil. I wouldnt think it would have more then 6" of head lift that it needs. My MT and HLT sit at the same height and the wort level in the MT is higher then my coil so just the liquid height (think its some law in chemistry just keep having boyls law stuck in my head and thats gas) should push the wort up through the herms coil and I should really only need about 6" of lift. Was not happening at all with these pumps so hoping this was an AC/DC issue and not these pumps were a complete waste of waiting 30 days for them to get here from China. Good news is it was the first run with the Electric Panel and electric brewing and everything with that worked great and honestly thats where I was worried I would have problems not the damn pumps.
Pump question and head height
- Thread starter Izzie1701
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AC and DC are very different animals, especially as far as motors are concerned. Power your DC pump with DC power. You may have damaged the pump motor, but give it a try and you'll know soon enough.
+1 to what brundog said.. If you ran AC through a DC motor you might have destroyed it from the oscillation.
I use that same pump and it does struggle to push wort from my ball valve back to my whirlpool arm at the top of the kettle. Especially if there are hops getting sucked into it. The impeller inside is tiny so it doesn't take much to clog it. Whole leaf hops are a complete no go, pellet hops have to take a minute to break up. They are cheap pumps and you get what you pay for
I use that same pump and it does struggle to push wort from my ball valve back to my whirlpool arm at the top of the kettle. Especially if there are hops getting sucked into it. The impeller inside is tiny so it doesn't take much to clog it. Whole leaf hops are a complete no go, pellet hops have to take a minute to break up. They are cheap pumps and you get what you pay for
According to the specs from eBay:
•DC 12V, •Rated current: 0.7A, •Max Flow Rate: 8L/Min(2.1GPM), •Max Water Head: 9.8ft
You'll need at least a 10 Watt, 12VDC power supply to run this. As the previous commenters have said, you can't mix AC power supplies with DC motors.
When powered with the correct supply, this pump should move water up to 9.8 feet (vertical). The conversion to PSI is 2.31 feet of head per PSI so this pump should generate 4.2 PSI at zero gpm and zero PSI at 2.1 gpm. Taking internal friction of the HERMS coils into account, this pump will be under 2 gpm.
•DC 12V, •Rated current: 0.7A, •Max Flow Rate: 8L/Min(2.1GPM), •Max Water Head: 9.8ft
You'll need at least a 10 Watt, 12VDC power supply to run this. As the previous commenters have said, you can't mix AC power supplies with DC motors.
When powered with the correct supply, this pump should move water up to 9.8 feet (vertical). The conversion to PSI is 2.31 feet of head per PSI so this pump should generate 4.2 PSI at zero gpm and zero PSI at 2.1 gpm. Taking internal friction of the HERMS coils into account, this pump will be under 2 gpm.
Also take into account increased viscosity and suspended hops working against the pump. Last batch it took about 2 solid minutes of pushing to get the 2 feet up to the top of the kettle
d3track
Are you sure about that?
I have that one connected to a 12v 1a supply. For the HERMS it has worked pretty well. When I tested it with 6' of 1/2" tubing and about 24" head it moved a little more than 2 gallons a minute.
Jeebus... 12V! Izzie I suggest you make sure you know what you are doing going forward. Electricity and liquid are a bad combination when not respected - it's not worth getting hurt or killed over.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
Your kidding or mistaken right? I would love to see someone hurt by 1 amp of 12v DC power? a tongue on a 9v battery can do more damage.
I used to use the same p38I 12v pump to power my 25ft 3/8" herms and it worked with about the same flow rate although I didnt measure it until I added my rims.
I use a 24v version now powered off of a 6amp supply and I get about 1.8 GPM when recirculating through a 10gallon mash and down through my long rims and up to the top of my mash tun through my flow meter...
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
I have tested multiple of these with both 1 amp 2 amp and larger 5 6 and 7 amp supplies and the 1 amp supply did struggle... the pump worked but had a hard time starting and would stall easily. 2 amp worked ok but the 5 amp had a noticably stronger reaction time and the pump didnt skip a beat even with pwm control
even though they are rated at .7 and .8amps they can draw more.
No, I wasn't suggesting this voltage would hurt someone. But the OP (not trying to knock, just make a point) freely swapped AC and DC, 24V and 12V. What if the same process was applied to 240V and 120V? Just saying electricity is not to be messed with if experience or knowledge is not there yet.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
Fair enough.
I'm a general contractor and not an idiot. It was an honest mistake that actually my electrician made. He was the one that just told me to use a doorbell transformer. I told him I had a 24v pump how can I power it and he suggested that. I failed to say 24vdc. Before even starting a test run I used a volt meter to insure I had the correct voltage everywhere. Even when I turned the control panel on for the first time I had it 15' away from me and then switched the breaker on in my panel. Hell if anything was hooked up wrong that would have hurt me it would have tripped the breaker or showed on my volt meter. I was standing in a puddle of water though when I turned everything on and just got out of the shower. That's a joke I wasn't. It could be said that everyone on her that's asking a questions in regards to trouble shooting something shouldn't be playing with electricity. I'm going to reconnect the pumps using the door bell transformer again and a AC DV adjustable power supply. 16vac in 5-35vdc out. I'll test with my multi meter and yes I know I have to switch from the AC to the DC testing point on it and set the output to 24vdc. I was simply asking if there was a big power difference in AC to DC power or if that pumps were just junk. As someone above said the propeller is so small I can't see it lifting the 9.8' it says on the ebay posting. Just wanted to know if anyone had actually successfully used these and if it was just my brain fart that had it working so bad.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
If it helps I regularly push my beer through a 20 plate , plate chiller and up 6 feet to the top of my conicals which sit up on a counter top and I can even do that while turning these these pumps down to half power with the pwm controller so... yeah they are pretty powerful.
Thanks Augie, sounds like it was just the AC/DC issue then. I don't think I fried the pump and the good news is I only used 1of the 2 I had before I realized my error. Seemed like I blew the door bell transformer before the pump.
I didn't say you were an idiot, that wasn't my goal. But you are self-admitting some pretty big mistakes, which I am extrapolating to tell you and others who read this not to take electricity lightly. Even here you state you used a VOM and had the correct voltage, yet you applied 24VAC to a 12VDC pump? And your statement that "if anything was hooked up wrong that would have hurt me it would have tripped the breaker or showed on my volt meter" is incorrect. Quick Google: https://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/~p616/safety/fatal_current.html
Yes, come to the forum before you connect electrical circuits you don't understand and get help... not after something burns up or worse.
BTW you might want to check the current requirements of a supply which converts 16VAC into 24VDC.
I said in the panel I tested everything not the pumps. The doorbell transformers arnt in the panel. There in a box outside the panel. It was wired for 120 to that box which I tested and confirmed. The transformers are attached to the boxes that were tested and confirmed. And by testing the voltages to all the elements, lights and switches I was confirming I didn't have anything rated for 120 connected to 240 which would have burned out. The amperage was all still there but rely on my fuse to fry or breaker to trip yes I know. I know if I touch a wire it's gonna hurt like hell. Was just trying to imply I did the test and knew what I was doing just had a minor brain fart.
The doorbell transformers can be 8,12,16 or 24 dependent on how you connect the low voltage side and the adjustable power supply I errored is 1.5VDV-30. With 24VAC I was able to crank the supply up to 29VDC. The supported AC supply is 5-30VAC and it must have a 3v difference from
Input to output. Also the pump is rated from 12-24VDC as per the eBay listing under its specifications. People come here for advice not to be criticized. And yes I know it's amperage and not voltage that kills also know there is 2 and 3 phase power. 3 phase power has a blue wire with it and reduces amperage with higher voltage to get the same number of watts but is typically only used in commercial/industrial settings. Again not an idiot just a small brain fart on 12 volts.
Just had a look at the ebay listing you linked to and couldn't find reference to supply vaoltage being 12-24Vdc, only 12Vdc. In other auctions which state 12-24Vdc they normal require you to select which model you want - either 12Vdc or 24Vdc.
I know you say you know what you are doing but just want to check if you electrical supply is protected with an RCD/GFCI? A fuse or breaker will not protect you from electrocution - the required current to cause ventricular fibrillation is way less than an amp (down to 15mA), meaning your fuse may not blow or breaker trip even if you are being electrocuted
Mattd I have a 30 amp gfci breaker in the panel. Didn't want to screw around making a gfci cord so just protected it right from the panel.
Hmm weird that link isn't to the link of the pump I'm using but is the correct link. Mine actually shows right on the stamp of the pump 12-24vdc. It showed in the listing that at 12v it had a max head of 4' and 24v max head of 9.8' the flow rate was also different.
Hmm weird that link isn't to the link of the pump I'm using but is the correct link. Mine actually shows right on the stamp of the pump 12-24vdc. It showed in the listing that at 12v it had a max head of 4' and 24v max head of 9.8' the flow rate was also different.
This one should work better.
http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eB...052&category=115710&pm=1&ds=0&t=1482212371012
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
The 24v version of the 12v pump he bought with 1/2" BPs threads would work just the same as the one you linked but be $18 and more versatile... I have both the 12 and 24 volt versions of these (many of each actually) and they never sold a single version of this Pump for either 12-24v they use the same case and pump head but the motor windings are different and the 24v version is about a third stronger.. they do sell a 36v version but it has a white box with a buck post transformer and requires 12v and like 4-5 amps I believe... It's rated at 5 GPM and I would love to know if it really pumps that much being the same tiny pump head.
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