Pump or carry large batch to fermenter?

[jkovac]

I am going to be brewing my first large batch soon. My fermenter (30 gal Spiedel in a freezer) is 65 feet from my brewing area. I am trying to decide if it would be better to pump through 65 feet of tubing or just drain from the kettle into four 5 gallon carboys and carry them to the fermenter. I am not overly concerned with cost (already have a pump, carboys, etc.) or the effort in carrying vs pumping, just want to do whatever is least likely to result in contamination or something else that would damage the beer. Thanks in advance for all replies.

 

[BeaverTail_Brewing]

I have no experience with pumps or brewing at that volume. That being said, I think that the carboy method would be more likely to result in oxygenation or infection. Furthermore, the physical risks of carrying carboys back and forth could be harmful. If your pump is able to push your beer that far, IMO, that would be the way to go.

 

[pvault98]

I have no experience with pumps or brewing at that volume. That being said, I think that the carboy method would be more likely to result in oxygenation or infection. Furthermore, the physical risks of carrying carboys back and forth could be harmful. If your pump is able to push your beer that far, IMO, that would be the way to go.

Oxygenation is a good thing at this point in the process

Depending on how you transfer in and out of your carboys, you can greatly reduce the risk of contamination. Regardless I would say there is a greater risk of contamination using the carboy method vs pump method, however that doesn't mean the risk is great enough to be a concern depending on your process. The only downside from pumping is some additional loss of wort and if something goes wrong in the middle of pumping it could be a nightmare.

Maybe do a dry run with water and the pump to find any unforeseen problems and figure out a best practice and decide then.

 

[jabba11]

the oxygenation as stated is not an issue here at all in fact you want it done. Its a tough call IMHO. 65 feet of tubing is a long run, if you plan to do this on a regular basis that just as prone to contamination id think as filling carboys then siphoning out into the speidel. You cant really clean the inside of 65 feet of tubing any better than a carboy and replacing it regularly would get costly. In the end I might just go with what seems to work easier and better for you. I also agree with doing a test run here too. Im not a fluid dynamics genius but there may be issues with pumping something that far.

 

[TipsySaint]

as long as you have a solid screen in the kettle and can pump without much trub, then deff pump, it's why we use them....

 

[Bobby_M]

I'd probably consider frequency of brewing into the decision. If you only intend to brew every other month or something like that, I'd just drag the wort down in some vessels. If you go with the pumping, consider a double run of 1/2" stainless tubing. Jump the ends together at the fermenter so you can recirculate boil temp wort through the loop, then chill, then run it to the fermenter. The loop also allows for a cleaning pump cycle also.

 

[jahdub]

It must be a hassle to sanitize 65 ft of tubing. Also, how much wort would you lose in the tubing?

I'd either carry the fermenter or kettle or use buckets.

 

[Singletrack]

To minimize loss when pumping, slope up from the pump to the fermenter if possible, and provide a low point near the pump to drain the line into a sanitized container. This can be dumped into the fermenter.

I don't think you want to pump up high and then slope down to the fermenter. This will create an intermediate high point that could collect air and block flow.

 

[RM-MN]

For a one-time I'd carry instead of pumping but I'd use buckets because carrying a carboy that distance 4 times is asking for disaster as they are heavy and slippery. Buckets have handles and you can put a lid on to minimize exposure to contaminants.

If you plan to do this several times then a pump and tubing is a better answer. If you plan to do this regularly, find a way to minimize the distance between the two. There has to be a way to move one or the other vessel.

 

[jkovac]

Thanks for the input, everyone. I am at least going to try the pumping method with water to make sure it flows, measure wort loss in the tubing, etc. I will post the results.

 

[dstar26t]

Clearing the line of wort at the end of the transfer is easy enough with CO2 or chase it with sanitary water. The only way I'd be comfortable with sanitizing that length of tubing would be with heat like Bobby suggested. For reference, I pump through a plate chiller and then a 50' coil of 1/2" OD SS tubing using a March 809-PL-HS-C. Doesn't have any trouble.

 

[jbrace1]

I pump 25 feet from my CFC to fermenter. I pump boiling wort through the chiller and tubing for about a minute to sanitize everything before I turn on the cold water to start chilling. I then chill to wort down to about 100F (about 6 minutes) by recirculating to the BK before i slow down the flow to get to my target temp on the CFC outlet. I then stop the pump, connect the hose to the blow off connector on the fermenter and fill the fementer. When the BK empties and the pump airlocks I disconnect the tubing from the CFC outlet and hold it up in the air to empty all the wort in the tubing into the fermenter. My only loss is the wort between the pump and CFC (about 3 feet of tubing), what's in the CFC and a little bit at the bottom of the BK.

I use a center inlet chugger with 2.5-4.5 ft of head pressure depending on the level in the BK and it has NO problem over that distance.

 

[srtce142]

If you do decide to go the carboy route, I recommend getting a furniture dolly to transport the carboy. I picked up a flat plastic one at Harbor Freight for $10. Made things a lot easier for me.

 

[Indian_villager]

Can we do something with wheels? Can the ferm chamber be put on moving dollies or a custom wooden frame with wheels? Can the BK be on a cart with wheels, so that once cooled you can wheel BK/Pump to the ferm chamber and pump into the fermenter?

 

[mikescooling]

Thanks for the input, everyone. I am at least going to try the pumping method with water to make sure it flows, measure wort loss in the tubing, etc. I will post the results.

I do pump my cold wort into the fermenters, but I recirculate boiling wort first, then so I don't waist any; I pump HLT water as a chaser to clean the pump and tubing. IMHO, 65ft is a long way, I'd try to put the carboys on skates and roll them as far as possible.

 

[jkovac]

Thanks again for all of the replies. I should have explained in my initial post that rolling anything I can carry is not worth it, because my fermenter sits inside my garage in a large upright freezer, and immediately outside the garage door, the driveway slopes considerably. So I can't brew right outside the garage, have to brew on level concrete that is around the side of the house, 65 feet away, and rolling anything I can lift is harder than just carrying it. I have to roll my (empty) TopTier stand with three burners, which is hell, and makes a huge racket, even with the new wheels I put on it. But at least it would stop rolling by itself if I were to lose control of it. Trying to roll the freezer could result in a spectacular crash at the bottom of my driveway.

 

[dstar26t]

The TopTier is too tall to fit in the garage?

 

[beersk]

If you do decide to go the carboy route, I recommend getting a furniture dolly to transport the carboy. I picked up a flat plastic one at Harbor Freight for $10. Made things a lot easier for me.

I use a platform cart for 6 gallon batches to carry from outside to my kitchen, which is probably a 60 or 70ft walk. That bitch is heavy to carry that far with the chiller and 6 gallons of liquid in it. So I just lift on to a furniture cart, wheel it to the kitchen to chill, and that's that. It's pretty slick. Something like this: http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/m...4Ha4PG1QdrFXY2Pl3dLesaAsMS8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[jkovac]

The TopTier is too tall to fit in the garage?

No, it fits, I just don't brew inside the garage for safety reasons. I guess some people do run propane burners inside their garage, but Blichmann and other burner/stand manufacturers specifically recommend against it.

 

[jkovac]

I went with pumping. It was the first time I'd used a pump and a Therminator, and I was amazed at how well it worked. It ended up being 75 feet of tubing. The only issue was the pump was so much faster than I expected, by the time I ran to the other end of the tubing in my garage, a few gallons of wort had already pumped into the sanitizer bucket before I could move the tube into the fermenter.

I turned the pump on with the wort just under boiling temp, and was amazed to see it coming out of the Therminator instantly at 72 F. Zero bubbles in the line.

Now I am trying to figure out how to make sure I can clean 75 feet of 3/8 vinyl. I pumped water then sanitizer thru it after use. Looks visually clean, but we know how that goes. I would hate to have to buy a 100 ft spool of 3/8 vinyl every time I brew. Thinking maybe I should go silicone so I can pump boiling water through it after each brewing session.

Thanks again to all for the help!

 

[Singletrack]

How do you empty the wort out of the line without wasting it: gravity drain? CO2? pump a chaser fluid?

Do you need to dry this line after use? If so, how?

 

[jkovac]

Drained via gravity - just picked it up over my head and let the tubing run through my hands as I walked toward the fermenter.

I guess it might be good to dry the inside out after use but I have no idea how I would do that. I'm not even sure how to clean and sanitize it for the next use.

 

[Singletrack]

Tubing is not easy to dry, and I think damp tubing and anything other than near-perfect cleaning is a recipe for infection. I wish I had an answer instead of pointing to problems. I'm still trying to find a good way to dry short pieces of tubing.

Maybe use silicone tubing as you mentioned, so you can run hot PBW through it. Then rinse, fill it with Star San, and plug it off, so that it stays full of sanitizer during storage. Just one idea, and not proven by any experience.

 

[Scottanooga]

Silicone tubing is your friend. I hate paying for it (vs vinyl) but I love using it.

 

[RM-MN]

Do you have an air compressor? Willing to gamble that you won't pop the hose this one time? Wad up a piece of paper towel and shove it into the hose, use air pressure to push it through the hose, then use your favorite cleaner and another piece of paper towel. Pour some cleaner into the hose, shove the paper towel in and use the air to push it and the cleaner through. Repeat until you are confident the hose is clean.

 

[jkovac]

More good ideas, thanks again to all. Another thing I'm considering is to cut the tubing into 8 foot sections that I can couple together. I have a 4 ft tube brush so I could clean each section separately from each end.