Pros and Cons of BIAB

[Singletrack]

Yep all the things I hate doing. Cooler: rinse, empty, soap, rinse - Done

...and some people skip the soap.

 

[Yooper]

Okay, I'm only being a tad bit sarcastic with this, and I don't know why more people don't do this, but on several of my early batches with no real equipment, I used two bags. You want to do 10 gallons without a pulley, use two or more bags to mash in. Simple. Works. Grain doesn't care or get lonely being separated from other grain. I've done it several times. It likely is easier/better than one bag and a pulley, but I've not yet convinced the world of it.

Yes, but remember that some of us (me) brew 10 gallon batches indoors. No WAY do I want to deal with bags of hot heavy wet grain.

I think it's really important to recognize that we all have different ideas on what works for us, and multiple bags of wet grain, or a pulley system with one big bag of grain, may not work inside my laundry room.

 

[UndeadFred]

Okay. I will reiterate what I said before, understanding you don't want to do it but others might.

Use smaller bags. Multiples of them. When you transfer them have a bucket nearby to put them in. Yeah, you will probably spill a little on the floor, but not much.

This is how I did 5 gallon batches for awhile and I am still amazed the bag manufacturers haven't come up with a multiple bag solution.

I suppose for most the pulley is easier. I do >5 gallon batches (usually 6 to 7) indoors but not 10. I am really the only person who consumes in my house and I'm pretty bad about bottling the excess and giving it away. Having said that.. I think I could do a 10 gallon batch completely all grain if I wanted, and if not, it would be so close that it would be a >75% AG partial mash.

I do did a pulley eventually, kicking and screaming but I would also like to handle 13 lbs of grain differently.. I suppose you are doing 20-25, which the bags can handle.. but it does kinda suck shlepping those at 170F. One thing that helps for the group is getting silicon hot pad gloves. Then it's far safer.

The point is, for someone building up a new system from scratch, you can get one vessel going this way and decide if you want to spend 3x as much for the other two vessels... even if "going big".

 

[UndeadFred]

...and some people skip the soap.

I usually skip the soap. Sometime on darker mashes (stout) it is needed unless you want to bag to be a little yellowed. Really you get 90% of it off by wetting the bag and shaking. I still think it's easier than washing out the cooler.

I should add it took me 10x as long to type that in than it does to do it on the bag.

 

[UndeadFred]

My biggest con is when I see pictures of set ups with all the hoses and pumps and crap...man, that looks really cool! I'm being serious - it does!
.

I have a pump and hoses on my eBIAB setup. Since I use and element and a PID and didn't insulate I recirculate to keep the temperature from stratifying. You can toy up your system even with BIAB! Cheers!

 

[kh54s10]

Pro: small amount of equipment needed.
Con: Heavy, hot, sticky, mess....... Unless you make a rig to lift the bag. Or make really small batches.

 

[Murphys_Law]

I have a pump and hoses on my eBIAB setup. Since I use and element and a PID and didn't insulate I recirculate to keep the temperature from stratifying. You can toy up your system even with BIAB! Cheers!

I have been toying with going eBIAB. I already have a pump that I bought for if/when I make the move. I also have 220v running to my spa and am thinking of switching the panel to add an outlet. Just not sure I want to spend the money or time right now...but sooner or later...!

 

[Murphys_Law]

Pro: small amount of equipment needed.

Con: Heavy, hot, sticky, mess....... Unless you make a rig to lift the bag. Or make really small batches.

I made a rig out of threaded 1/2" black pipe from HD. Cost ~$60. I'd go galvanized if I did it again, though.

I lift the bag and let it drain while I start the boil and since the pipe is threaded it's very easy to swing the arm over the pot and lower into a homer bucket. It also gives me a "storage arm" to hang bottles, spoons, lid, etc.

And it breaks down for easy storage.

One important note though: move the damn bucket AWAY FROM THE FIRE! I had a "blonde" moment and left it there when I lit the flame so if anyone needs a slightly melted bucket let me know .

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1459873966.445382.jpg

 

[dstockwell]

I do 3.25G BIAB because of the ease, one vessel, no sparge, easy cleanup. I just accept 65% Brew House efficiency and adjust recipe for it. No where for a pulley system so no big deal. 3G bottled gives me a wide variety in the pipeline.

 

[TorMag]

I made a rig out of threaded 1/2" black pipe from HD. Cost ~$60. I'd go galvanized if I did it again, though.

I lift the bag and let it drain while I start the boil and since the pipe is threaded it's very easy to swing the arm over the pot and lower into a homer bucket. It also gives me a "storage arm" to hang bottles, spoons, lid, etc.

And it breaks down for easy storage.

One important note though: move the damn bucket AWAY FROM THE FIRE! I had a "blonde" moment and left it there when I lit the flame so if anyone needs a slightly melted bucket let me know .

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Murphy, great idea, what does the bottom of the stand look like? Any chance of getting some close up pictures of the stand?

Thanks

 

[Murphys_Law]

Murphy, great idea, what does the bottom of the stand look like? Any chance of getting some close up pictures of the stand?



Thanks

I used 36" pipe for the leg supports, screwed into the "Y". The contraption sticking out is just to help with stability against forward lean when hoisting the bag . I used a 6" pipe, "T", 8" pipe, 90 degree and 6" pipe with a cap (had to glue some washers for spacing). You can do something similar with backward support I suppose (not really an issue since all the weight is in front of the rig, though).

Used a 72" pipe screwed into the "T" for my height.

The top has another "T", a short 1/2" to 1/2" connector, 90 degree, 8" pipe and cap. This is over my kettle and supports the hoist. The arm is 24" pipe and cap. I have small chains and hooks for the hoist, hanging, etc.

In fairness, I have to put a small weight on the left leg if I have anything at the end (i.e. Lid) of the arm. I am going to work on this next time out.

I used it for the first time on Sat and Sun brew days and overall am very pleased. BTW - I just went out to take the pics for you and it took me less than 10 mins to put it together, take the pictures and disassemble!

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1459875872.626271.jpg
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1459875893.387659.jpg

(edited to add add'l info)

 

[TorMag]

I used 36" pipe for the leg supports, screwed into the "Y". The contraption sticking out is just to help with stability when hoisting the bag. I used a 6" nipple, "T", 8" nipple, 90 degree and 6" nipple with a cap (had to glue some washers for spacing).

Used. 72" screwed into the "T".

The top has another "T", a short connector, 90 degree, 8" nipple and cap. This is over my kettle and supports the hoist. The arm is 24" pipe and cap. In fairness, I have to put a weight on the left leg if I have anything at the end (i.e. Lid) of the arm.

View attachment 349017
View attachment 349018

Thanks. How did you attach the pulley?

 

[Murphys_Law]

Thanks. How did you attach the pulley?

I changed my original post to add some more info.

I have a small chain which I drape over the pipe and the pulley is attached to the chain using a carabineer. I also use small chains with hooks across the arm extension which I use to hang my spoon, lid, mash paddle, etc.

I think if you can blow up the original image you may be able to see these.

It was a pretty easy build which didn't require any tools, and for $60 or $70 in parts it was a no-brainer to go this route!

 

[LostHopper]

Considering I only brew 5-6 gallon batches, I see no "cons" of biab.
Volume is really the only limitation with one vessel vs three vessel brewing.

My outdoor setup is primitive compared to most but the beer turns out good if I
a) keep absolute control of mash and fermentation temperatures
b) maintain a high level of sanitation
c) don't get in a hurry

 

[sixwinds]

Cleaning the bag is easy for me, after the mash I dump the grain into a garbage bag. Once the bag cools off I shake it out over the garbage, then I throw it in the clothes washer, with no soap, on delicate. Comes out clean and takes very little effort!

 

[Iceman6409]

I was having major drainage issues in my picnic cooler. I was using a SS braided toilet thingy. So I took off the toilet thingy and left the faucet on the cooler and now use the bag in the cooler. Perfect. Lots of room in the cooler if needed. I can absolutely control temperatures. When mash is done I simply lift the bag out and let drain for a few seconds then I move the bag to a large strainer that fits at the top of my boil kettle and let it drain right in. When that is done I simply drain the mash in cooler into the kettle and off we go. Cleanup is WAY easier and faster now. Don't have to deal with the grains in the cooler. I just take the bag outside and put it where I put it. Shake as much grain off the bag as I can and toss it in the washing machine. Water only.

I know everyone says the spirit of BIAB is to try and use one kettle. Love to and did try it. Temperature was a little difficult for me to deal with. I already had the cooler so why not make use of that as well? To me the draining of the mash is obviously mucho faster and the lack of clean up is mucho faster too. I love it. But that is just my stupid humble opinion.

 

[UndeadFred]

I was having major drainage issues in my picnic cooler. I was using a SS braided toilet thingy. So I took off the toilet thingy and left the faucet on the cooler and now use the bag in the cooler. Perfect. Lots of room in the cooler if needed. I can absolutely control temperatures. When mash is done I simply lift the bag out and let drain for a few seconds then I move the bag to a large strainer that fits at the top of my boil kettle and let it drain right in. When that is done I simply drain the mash in cooler into the kettle and off we go. Cleanup is WAY easier and faster now. Don't have to deal with the grains in the cooler. I just take the bag outside and put it where I put it. Shake as much grain off the bag as I can and toss it in the washing machine. Water only.

I know everyone says the spirit of BIAB is to try and use one kettle. Love to and did try it. Temperature was a little difficult for me to deal with. I already had the cooler so why not make use of that as well? To me the draining of the mash is obviously mucho faster and the lack of clean up is mucho faster too. I love it. But that is just my stupid humble opinion.

The only reason I changed from this was to go electric and in a small space in my basement because where I live (Iowa) the weather is too cold or too hot to do it in the garage all but about 3 months a year. Before that I used a cooler with a curtain and bungees for over a year and it does work fine. If I want to do a really big beer or a "medium" one at ten gallons I'll still use the cooler. I'm almost tempted to RIMS and PID the cooler eventually too, but it's way down on the priority list. It's so nice to brew inside.. and the bag and pulley, honestly is the compromise. My temp control is much better with the new setup and step mashes are cake, but I think the cooler as a second vessel and a curtain panel or bag is a great way to go.. If I lived some place warmer the inside rig might never have happened.

 

[TorMag]

I was looking at pictures of Brewstands in another thread and looking at this picture (No offense Mike C, I just picked yours kinda at random)

And thought to myself, I am so glad I got into BIAB. One large kettle, a bag and a burner and I am done. That just looks like brew day would be a pain in the ass to get going and break down.

 

[casualbrewer]

For those inside if you had the proper ceiling space above you can just run a bolt with an eye on it into a ceiling joist... Would hold it no problem. And if you ever move then you have a very small hole to fix

 

[BlurryEyed]

One thing I've struggled with in BIAB is cloudy beer. If I use a finer crush, I get cloudier beer. If I don't, I get less efficiency. I've had moderate success with cold crashing/Gelatin fining, but it's an added step.

Anyone got any tips\tricks for clearer beer? It's not like it tastes bad, but some brewing buddies always call it out.

 

[LostHopper]

With time and better technique I am happy with my beer clarity. I can't really put my finger on one thing but here is how things have evolved:

1. Better bag: getting the Wilser brewer bag has been a plus for many reasons.
2. Letting things settle before moving beer from kettle to fermenter and from fermenter to bottling bucket.
3. Cold crashing any dry hopped beer (I use pellets with no hops bag or other container). No gelatin
4. Better siphoning technique when filling bottling bucket. After things have settled in fermenter, start high and move down to yeast bed, tip fermenter early.

I also double crush my grain but I think there are a number of reasons for cloudy beer and the brewing method shouldn't get all the blame.

 

[dsniegocki]

One thing I've struggled with in BIAB is cloudy beer. If I use a finer crush, I get cloudier beer. If I don't, I get less efficiency. I've had moderate success with cold crashing/Gelatin fining, but it's an added step.

Anyone got any tips\tricks for clearer beer? It's not like it tastes bad, but some brewing buddies always call it out.

I don't BIAB but I do use one to line my MLT to make clean up easier, and allow for a finer crush without a stuck sparge. I also had clarity issues. Until... I got a pump and recirc'ed the wort during the mash. The difference in clarity is unbelievable.

 

[BlurryEyed]

I don't BIAB but I do use one to line my MLT to make clean up easier, and allow for a finer crush without a stuck sparge. I also had clarity issues. Until... I got a pump and recirc'ed the wort during the mash. The difference in clarity is unbelievable.

This right here...I don't have any way to recirc but I do believe that is an advantage for clarity sake.

 

[UndeadFred]

For those inside if you had the proper ceiling space above you can just run a bolt with an eye on it into a ceiling joist... Would hold it no problem. And if you ever move then you have a very small hole to fix

That is what I did in my basement right to the floor joist above the unit (unfinished area). But you are correct, a 1/4" lag eye is more than strong enough and it would take 30 seconds to patch the hole in drywall...

 

[ArcLight]

One thing I've struggled with in BIAB is cloudy beer. If I use a finer crush, I get cloudier beer. If I don't, I get less efficiency. I've had moderate success with cold crashing/Gelatin fining, but it's an added step.

I don't consider Cold Crashing an extra step, I consider it a necessary step.
I bottle and since cold crashing I have less yeast at the bottom of my bottles.

Finer crush = cloudier wort initially, but I don't think it gives cloudy beer, as those particles are still large and settle out over a few weeks.

 

[ArcLight]

A Con of BIAB is with a tight crush, you can get conversion very quickly. If your recipe calls for a hot mash (and a less fermentable wort), like 156, you may get a more fermentable wort than you expect. The Beta Amylase is able to get at the sugar in those tiny particles and convert in the 5 minutes before it's denatured.

 

[brew-bandit]

A Con of BIAB is with a tight crush, you can get conversion very quickly. If your recipe calls for a hot mash (and a less fermentable wort), like 156, you may get a more fermentable wort than you expect. The Beta Amylase is able to get at the sugar in those tiny particles and convert in the 5 minutes before it's denatured.

I don't think this is correct based on my experience and measurements.

If you increase the surface area and therefore the accessibility of starches and enzymes, it will scale linearly. So if your tight crush increases the conversion rate by 2X, it does so for both enzymes. In other words it comes out the same in half the time.

Example. For a light body beer you might mash at 146 for 90 minutes under a normal crush but if you use a finer crush (assuming you double conversion rate) you will achieve the same results at 45 minutes. You will yield the same amount (and ratio) of fermentable and non-fermentable sugars.

I have observed this first hand when I started crushing using 0.025 in on my mill. For 4 batches I used the normal mash schedule and hit all my gravities. I took gravity readings every 5 min across these batches and determined 30 minutes is sufficient for conversion at a given temp. I hit my FG with light body beer doing this assuming I hit my temp. I do 30 minute mashes now and if you mash at a higher temp you will get the correct ratio of sugar conversion to obtain more body. I will sometimes let a lighter body beer go for 45 minutes just to make sure.

Cheers!

 

[iijakii]

Same. I can mash high no problems and not have it turn out drier than expected.

 

[brew-bandit]

To the original poster.

I have been doing BIAB for almost a year. I intended to transition to 3 vessel method but was new to the hobby and BIAB was an easy way to get into all grain.

I see no CONs to BIAB. Though it is possible some folks with HERMS/RIMS and 3 vessel may make better beer but there is no way to scientifically measure this. The "best" beer is subjective. You can and will make fantastic beer under either method.

With respect to water ratio. I can mash at whatever ratio I would like. I can top off if need be. If you really want you can sparge. I hit about 82-85% eff without sparging.

With BIAB I can get a mill and crush very fine (double crush is not quite as good) and get the mash complete in 30 minutes,

For the price difference I can get a mill and possibly more equipment to do 2 batches at a time.

Less equipment to clean.

Right now I have 3 hour brew days for 6.25 gallon batches, including clean up, doing shorter mash times and shorter boil times.

The cost to start is very small. 15 gallon kettle $100, banjo burner $70, Wilser custom brew bag ~$30, Monster mill (optional but recommended) $200.

Of course you can do 3 vessel at a lower cost and you can also get the time down (good heat source, shorter boil time) but you will not be able to reduce your mash time (including sparge).

I still love the precision that can be achieved using more advanced methods and some day I may rise to that level. Until then I am still having a blast learning to make awesome beer.

Happy brewing all!! And whichever method you choose have fun!

 

[Gavin C]

A Con of BIAB is with a tight crush, you can get conversion very quickly. If your recipe calls for a hot mash (and a less fermentable wort), like 156, you may get a more fermentable wort than you expect. The Beta Amylase is able to get at the sugar in those tiny particles and convert in the 5 minutes before it's denatured.

Nope. I see no such problems.