Proper final PH and final taste adjustment question

[nbstl68]

My first cider (pear) is done. I back sweetened with a little brown sugar and added a little vanilla extract.

I like the aroma and some of the flavors but it seems to me just too tart.
I thought I could fix this adding more sugar, but in samples that made it too sweet and did not remove much tartness.
Then someone told me tartnedss was related to acidity. So I had the PH tested...It turns out my cider is a ph of 4.3. (tested at a lab so should be correct) which means the acidity is actually kind of low (ph kind of high for cider; other posts recommending cider be between 3.2-3.8 as a general rule) already.
So, in theory I should lower my PH (raise the acidity) for a "typical" cider but that would only INCREASE the tartness...so what to do?

Also could the PH of 4.3 be an issue for long term storage\aging?
(also read here that low acidity could allow bacteria growth or something like that.)

I may not be describing the taste exactly tight either though, being my first batch.

I reviewed a flavor grid here:
http://www.cider.org.uk/frameset.htm

And while it definitely has a decent cider flavor IMO I also think it tastes metallic, astringent, drying to me. (class 11 Mouthfeel on that site).


So if my descriptions are accurate, what can I do at this point to correct it and try to remove the tartness and described taste and mouth feel before bottling?

 

[WayFrae]

I don't know much about the pH questions but I do know that I made a cider last year that was really tart and now it tastes great. It has been bottled for about 11 months now. Age will really mellow the tartness out.

 

[nbstl68]

11 months?
I had read aging may help but How long can I keep my cider once bottled?
I assumed it would start to go bad somehow at some point.
Do you keep it refrigerated?
I will have about 80 bottles so ill just have to keep them in the basement which will be around 65-70F I imagine.

 

[mabrungard]

Acid flavor comes from more than pH (which is the concentration of H+ ions). The anions paired with the H ions have a profound affect. The typically dominant acid in cider is Malic, but other acids such as citric, tartaric, lactic, and acetic can be present in cider. Adjusting any of those may have a desirable effect.

 

[Archer]

I think measuring Total Acidity is a better way to guage flavor than simply ph. You can do this with a cheap titration kit they use for wine available at LBS or on line. There are descriptions on how you do this for apple cider also available on line, or ask here, and we can walk you through it.

 

[WayFrae]

11 months?
I had read aging may help but How long can I keep my cider once bottled?
I assumed it would start to go bad somehow at some point.
Do you keep it refrigerated?
I will have about 80 bottles so ill just have to keep them in the basement which will be around 65-70F I imagine.

Mine have just been in the basement for the whole time. It is usually around 65-70°F in the summer and 50-55°F in the winter. I imagine the cider will last a very long time. As long as your sanitation is up to par you should be just fine.

 

[nbstl68]

So I keep reading "optimally", finished cider should be between like 3.2 - 3.8.
Other than taste preference is there good reason for me to mess with adjusting it since I am sitting high at 4.3?

 

[gregbathurst]

Spoilage is the main reason for keeping the pH low, a lot of wild yeast and bacteria won't tolerate low pH. Also metabisulfite doesn't have much effect above 3.8. If it is ok now it should keep for a while but I wouldn't keep it for a long time.
The term tart isn't a very good description. Is it sour or bitter? 4.3 is quite likely, pears don't have much acidity or flavour for that matter. If you have backsweetened it you raise the chances of spoilage so you should keep the cider cool.

 

[nbstl68]

Thanks
I assume I could still add in some malic acid as I have legged but not yet bottled it.
But how do I dose it?
I have roughly 4 gal in one keg and 3 in another.
How much would I add per gallon to knock the ph down just a bit?


I was also considering pasterurizing after bottling with hot water bath method I read about here.
Would that also help allow me to keep it longer without spoilage?

 

[bernardsmith]

I agree that the problem may be that the TA (Titratable Acid ) may be too high even if the pH is low. A good way to think about the difference (good but not exact ) is that pH is about the strength of the acids in the cider while TA is about the amount of acids. A lot of weak acids will give you a lower pH than a small amount of strong acids. If you are saying that the cider is too tart then you may want to reduce the amount of malic acid in the cider and you can do that with MLF bacteria that will convert malic to lactic acids.
The value of the pH is more to do with whether the acid level is in the range that the yeast prefer. If your cider has fully fermented then that issue is moot. The other issue with pH is how long it will keep. Low pH has better keeping properties than high pH and you do not need to use as much free SO2 to inhibit spoilage.
Longer term you may want to use a yeast like 71B to ferment cider as 71B has an affinity for malic and that yeast tends to convert malic to lactic (not an MLF bacterial fermentation) so after 6 months or so a cider made with that yeast tends to taste smoother and less rough than ciders made with other yeasts...

 

[gregbathurst]

If a pear cider has a pH of 4.3 there is no way it will have high T.A. pH and TA are not the same thing but there is a general relationship. Pears do not have high TA anyway. The pH scale is logarithmic so there is a big difference between 3.8 and 4.3. You could easily add 2 or 3 ounces of malic to the cider, that would bring it down a few pH points, pasteurising would also be a good idea after backsweetening.

 

[nbstl68]

That was a great explanation. Thanks.