Propane or Electric

[IrregularPulse]

I plan on splitting my dryer breaker into a second outlet in my garage and put a GFCI Outlet on it to plug my HLT into once I get around to building one instead of a GFCI Breaker in the box. This is the same functionally right?
Where did Lazylamma get his $180 heating element pricing from????

 

[The Pol]

I plan on splitting my dryer breaker into a second outlet in my garage and put a GFCI Outlet on it to plug my HLT into once I get around to building one instead of a GFCI Breaker in the box. This is the same functionally right?
Where did Lazylamma get his $180 heating element pricing from????

He may be referring to PID control and install of it?

 

[conpewter]

I plan on splitting my dryer breaker into a second outlet in my garage and put a GFCI Outlet on it to plug my HLT into once I get around to building one instead of a GFCI Breaker in the box. This is the same functionally right?
Where did Lazylamma get his $180 heating element pricing from????

They don't seem to make GFCI outlets above 20 amps. You'll probably need a GFCI breaker or an inline GFCI for a 30 amp plug (or 50 amp if you are using an electric range outlet)


Edited for clarity and fixing wordzz

 

[The Pol]

They don't seem to make GFCI breakers above 20 amps. You'll probably need a GFCI breaker or an inline GFCI for a 30 amp plug (or 50 amp if you are using an electric range outlet)

They definately make GFCI breakers larger than 20A... 50A and 60A too.

 

[conpewter]

They definitely make GFCI breakers larger than 20A... 50A and 60A too.

Sorry meant outlets. Edited that post.

 

[Aleforge]

I plan on splitting my dryer breaker into a second outlet in my garage and put a GFCI Outlet on it to plug my HLT into once I get around to building one instead of a GFCI Breaker in the box. This is the same functionally right?
Where did Lazylamma get his $180 heating element pricing from????

What happens if someone tries to run the dryer at the same time?

 

[llazy_llama]

Where did Lazylamma get his $180 heating element pricing from????

Electric Brew Heater w/15" Element :: Midwest Supplies Homebrewing and Winemaking Supplies

$180

 

[The Pol]

2200W for $180... OMG

If you can change a heating element in a water heater, you can build a brew system with them. $18 from True Value.

 

[arturo7]

Does anyone know how then formulas for calculating the BTUs required to attain and/or maintain a boil for a given HLT or MLT capacity?

I'd be happier to keep everything at 110 if possible. The hybrid propane/electric method mentioned earlier is interesting.

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

Or you can mount it in the cooler so that it is not too close to the plastic. Mine is mounted in the bottom and I have never had a single issue with this.

You're using low density 240V elements, too, aren't you? They are cooler to the touch, I think.

Yeah, the tip of the element was sitting against the plastic. It did not melt through, but it did melt some dimples. I won't do that again. Funny thing is, the beer came out tasting fine.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

I'm breaking a golden rule here.....I'm not even gonna search for a good electric set up here because I know I will spend hours trawling through all the results.

Can someone point me to the best resource on here for an electric BK setup please?

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

Interesting approach Cptn, using both propane and electric. What size is your brew kettle? Do you use a 240v heater?

I'm wondering if I use the hybrid method, can I get away with a 110v heater to keep the boil rolling?

I use a 15 gallon keggle to boil in. My heatstick uses a 2000w 110v water heater element. One stick will hold a rolling boil, but it takes two to get it to a boil (or a propane burner).

If you do make two 110v heatsticks, you will have to run them on two separate 20AMP circuits. One circuit will not handle the load.

Be SURE to use a GFCI. Electricity and water mix TOO well.

One more thing, if you use this hybrid method, you have to make sure the cord for the heatstick is kept away from the propane heat.

 

[The Pol]

I'm breaking a golden rule here.....I'm not even gonna search for a good electric set up here because I know I will spend hours trawling through all the results.

Can someone point me to the best resource on here for an electric BK setup please?

Meh, here is one of many

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/bling-bling-electric-herms-conversion-93217/

 

[conpewter]

Meh, here is one of many

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/bling-bling-electric-herms-conversion-93217/

That's the one I would have pointed to, got me to go electric.

 

[baer19d]

I use propane and my system is automated ( more or less) Ventilation is not an issue for me in my garage and if you use the right burners than the noise is not an issue either>

 

[Wayne1]

Using a high BTU burner with a large surface area will keep the noise down.

I have used a few different propane burners. My first wast a JET burner that was very noisy and terribly inefficient. My next burner wasn't quite as noisy, but still used up the propane.

My latest build uses the Bayou Classic Banjo Burners

Almost silent. I can easily hear the water feature in my neighbor's front yard pumping away while the burner is on. 210,000 BTU for around $40.00.

 

[The Pol]

1 pound of propane creates about 25,000 BTU.

210,000 BTU cant be cheap to run.

I will stick with electric.

 

[Coffeeaddictnova]

The cord I bought was a 15' cord that has an inline GFCI, it is a very beefy cord. Kal bought one as well.

Any chance you have pictures of said inline GFCI? I wonder if an inline GFCI could be safely used if connected to the outlet behind an electric range.

 

[conpewter]

30A Ground Fault Interrupt Plug GFI CordCable FREE SHIP - eBay (item 110302613578 end time May-19-09 11:23:22 PDT)

That's the one I bought. They accepted an best offer of $70 for it, I've heard they accepted a $60 offer from someone else too.

It is a lot beefier than it looks in the pic. The GFCI part you see is more than 1' long and probably 5" wide.


30 Amp, 4 Wire, 8 Gauge, 17 Feet, includes male plug
CSA-NRTL/C ST 4-10 FT2 LL39965 - - - - (UL) STO 4-10 E67474

Range outlets are 50 amps I think, so this cord in particular wouldn't work, but you might find a 50 amp one.

 

[brrman]

On the cost factor; according to my numbers, it cost me $0.51cad to boil with a 4500W element for 90 minutes. It would cost $0.84 with 7500W (3000W + 4500W). Make you wonder... We're known to pay too little for electricity here in Québec.

Thats cuz Quebec got the sweetest deal in the world from Joey Smallwood, premier of Newfoundland at the time, when he basically gave away the power rights to Churchill Falls for until 2041.

woops...

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

1 pound of propane creates about 25,000 BTU.

210,000 BTU cant be cheap to run.

I will stick with electric.

That's why I only run my 210,000 BTU burner for about 15 minutes per brew.

I am still trying to decide which route to take to full electric, then the propane will just be an auxiliary heat source.

 

[Lil' Sparky]

Big flames are cool. Water heating elements are for sissies.

 

[The Pol]

Big flames are cool. Water heating elements are for sissies.

True true... but I love my sissy rig

 

[GranillaNutz]

i've found that my electric bill monthly hasn't raised higher than the cost of refilling propane tanks. a 4500 watt heating element and wire and a dryer plug costs a good bit less than a propane burner. and you won't risk carbon monoxide poisoning if you're doin it in ur garage. i don't know about heating elements for sissies... after all, you're mixing water with electricity to make alcohol. mabye it's just for those of us that are a lil off
i do like a good flame tho. kinda memorizing sometimes

 

[jkarp]

It costs me forty cents to brew a 3 gallon batch of beer using electric, assuming a 60 minute boil.

 

[bendavanza]

If I had a better electrical supply where I brew I would prefer electric. Propane tanks, swapping them out, having them run out, all that heat in your face, meh. I like fire, but I have to hand it to electric for things like heating water.
Propane is portable, though.

 

[The Pol]

Propane is portable, that is a big plus. As always, it depends on the need of the individual brewer.

I was called out in a thread last night about electric brewing. Called out on how much it costs to operate and how well it actually heats. Here is the run down on my system.

FWIW, my cost per kwh is:

$.126

I can run 5500W for THREE HOURS non stop for $2.09

My HLT costs $.28 per brew session to run (3 hours)
My BK costs $.90 for a 100 minute boil

Total brew session cost to run the HERMS: $1.18

It takes me about 10 minutes after the lauter, to reach a rolling boil.

IMHO it IS cheap to operate and it DOES heat fast. I have built both propane and electric. I personally prefer electric... but this is why:

Easy to automate
I brew in the garage a lot
I dont travel with my brew rig
It RUNS cheap
I like wires and projects
It is silent
It has flashing lights that look cool
I hate having to run out to get propane
Easy to dial in a boil rate by setting the PID % output to the same value (aside from atomospheric conditions)

 

[TommyBoy]

and you won't risk carbon monoxide poisoning if you're doin it in ur garage.

Doesn't dying while making beer take a close second to dying while having sex though?

 

[sjlammer]

I believe the conversion is

first convert gallons of water to cubic centimeters

1 cc of water = 1 gram of water

it takes one calorie to raise 1 gram of water 1 degree Celsius,

so Energy = (mass of water) x (change in temperature)

Convert energy in calories into joules by dividing by 4.18

then, one watt = a joule/sec

to determine watts, just divide total joules by the time to boil (I'd like to beable to bring water to temp in 15 minutes, or 900 seconds.

 

[jumpjet2k]

Alright, so I'm not particularly experienced with electrical systems, but everybody in this thread seems to be quite knowledgeable.

I'm living in a somewhat old apartment - 1970s, probably. Got 20A circuits here, no access to anything higher, and none of the outlets have GFCIs. I'm looking at using a 120V water heater element. My all-grain setup isn't exactly set in stone yet, but I have two 40qt aluminum stock pots, so I'll probably go with one as a MT, the other as a HLT and boil pot with the element attached.

So, four questions:
1. I'd like to use a GFCI, of course, so I'll have to go in-line. Is there any reason that this wouldn't work?:
Tower Mfg 30338024 GFCI Cord 5-15 Plug Inline to 3x5-15R 3 Feet 15a/125v 12/3 SJTW Auto Reset - Our Item #: 3147, Category: Outdoor/Marine Power : StayOnline.com

2. Should I be worried about staying farther below 20A since the apartment's older? I notice that the in-line GFCI above is 15A, which would put a cap on my wattage at 1800, if I'm getting that correct.

3. Could a 1800V (or around that range, anyways) element hold a boil of, say, 7 gallons? I don't really expect a single heating element at that voltage to REACH a boil in a reasonable amount of time, but I'm planning to supplement it with my stove, anyways.

4. Low or high watt density? I hear high can scorch (but I also hear that it doesn't), and also that high can be better for reaching a boil.

I can't use propane - nowhere outdoors to store it, plus it's against the lease for me to have it at my apartment anyways. And my stove's not nearly powerful enough to boil more than a couple gallons. So electric will have to work. I'll probably upgrade the element in the future if I have 240A available, but for now I just need something that can boil for a 5gal batch, even if it takes a while.