Propane burner in garage - how much ventilation?

[ILMSTMF]

Here we go again...

Beginner propane-burner brewer and haven't done a batch in garage in the coldest months yet. Well, I'm about to be doing just that! So, how much ventilation?

1) Garage door wide open
2) Garage door cracked (so I don't freeze while brewing, etc.)
3) GD wide open plus door that connects garage to house cracked open
4) GD cracked plus door that connects garage to house cracked open

Related to this thread https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=593892

Thanks!

 

[Murphys_Law]

I've brewed a few batches in the garage. Keep door open about a foot when propane was on and opened a back door for cross ventilation.

I also bought a CO meter and keep it down by the floor as a precaution.

 

[jayway]

Get yourself a decent CO meter to know for sure. I wouldn't trust a poll with the dangers of carbon monoxide.

 

[pshankstar]

I've done a few batches where the garage door is open 2-3 feet. I usually try to keep the burner by the opening and haven't had any issues. I'm no expert but now I feel I should get a CO meter to take out there with me just to be safe.

I've thought about placing a box fan near the opening to draw any CO out of the garage but haven't done that yet.

 

[GPP33]

I crack my garage door (double door) about 6" to 8" and crack the man door on the other side of the garage a few inches. Once the burners get shut off the doors get closed. Don't open the door to the house, won't do anything but make the house cold.

If you have a battery powered CO detecter in your house (which you should) you can take it outside with you for piece of mind.

 

[IchLiebeBier]

When it was cold I would normally keep the garage halfway open but the burner was very close to the door. Even so I would often get headaches by the end of it even though my monitor never went off. CO is a very real possibility. Be careful.

 

[swampbrewcrew]

I work for a company that primarily sells propane burners so I'm obviously going to say don't brew in your garage. Not only because of CO. You've also got an open flame in close proximity to everything people keep in garages that shouldn't be near an open flame. Lots of people have fuel cans, chemicals etc. Propane leaks shouldn't happen if you leak test appropriately, but if it did happen due to equipment failure it's a much more dangerous situation in your garage than if you were outside.

 

[DrnkNPublic]

So im definitely no expert (just a red neck) but I every time I have brewed it's been in the garage. Garage door open all the way and most of the time the back door open too. I have also used other propane burners in the garage (mostly my flat top griddle, 4 burners on full 58000 btu) and I have nvr had any problems with headaches or anything. However I live in California's central valley where even in the dead of winter it's not super cold during the day so I haven't had to worry about freezing. Really though if that's ur worry just put on a few more layers, how bad do u want ur brew day lol! I guess I don't worry to much because I haven't had any mishaps, but I always say be un-safe in the safest way possible!

Oh man after proof reading this is see I come off as kinda an idiot but hey, what I wrote is the unabashed truth as I see it!

 

[Yesfan]

Garage door wide open anytime the burners are running. During the winter, as soon as I hit strike temp, off goes the burner. After I dough in and stir, the garage door comes down to keep the mash and me from dropping temp for the next hour.

In the summertime, I leave the doors open and have a shop fan at the back of the garage blowing outwards. I also have an extinguisher nearby.

 

[olotti]

I only brew in my garage and never had any CO issues. In the summer the garage doors wide open bit now in winter time I'll crack it like 12" and crack the side man door then close both when the flame goes off.

 

[skraeling]

I literally just did this. I had the door open maybe a foot? but had the burner right by it. I had the burner going for several hours today.

i am fine.

just crack it and youll live.

 

[brandonlovesbeer]

Propane burner on driveway. Or right at the opening of the door.
Yes. It's cold. But if you are standing next to the burner you'll be fine.

 

[D-west]

I work for a company that primarily sells propane burners so I'm obviously going to say don't brew in your garage. Not only because of CO. You've also got an open flame in close proximity to everything people keep in garages that shouldn't be near an open flame. Lots of people have fuel cans, chemicals etc. Propane leaks shouldn't happen if you leak test appropriately, but if it did happen due to equipment failure it's a much more dangerous situation in your garage than if you were outside.

I see your point, but I feel its over cautious for someone taking the proper precautions.

If we were to follow this advice, my gas dryer, gas furnace, and gas water heater shouldn't be in my garage.

 

[skraeling]

I work for a company that primarily sells propane burners so I'm obviously going to say don't brew in your garage. Not only because of CO. You've also got an open flame in close proximity to everything people keep in garages that shouldn't be near an open flame. Lots of people have fuel cans, chemicals etc. Propane leaks shouldn't happen if you leak test appropriately, but if it did happen due to equipment failure it's a much more dangerous situation in your garage than if you were outside.

Who has a roaring propane burner next to anything? I dont get that. The closest thing to my burner was ... the tank which was at the maximum distance it could be due to feed line length.

This isnt rocket science. Do what you feel comfortable with. Going by the fact that my garage never got above ~45* even WITH the burner going + my in garage heater having the door cracked only a foot clearly provided a TON of ventilation.

 

[D-west]

Who has a roaring propane burner next to anything? I dont get that. The closest thing to my burner was ... the tank which was at the maximum distance it could be due to feed line length.

This isnt rocket science. Do what you feel comfortable with. Going by the fact that my garage never got above ~45* even WITH the burner going + my in garage heater having the door cracked only a foot clearly provided a TON of ventilation.

Agreed. Inside or out, I always have fire suppression handy.

 

[brewprint]

When using propane and when I crank the heat for strike water or to get to boiling I usually open the door all the way unless it's windy out, then I crack the side door.

A friend just leaves his garage shut.

With electric I just keep the garage closed

 

[JimRausch]

I crack the door open about 1 foot when heating water, but when I'm boiling my BK, the door is open full. More to vent the steam outdoors so my paint won't peel. The door from my garage to basement is open and the CO monitor never chirps. Of course, the monitor is probably 20 feet away from the burner, so that's probably not relevant.

 

[tjmac5071]

Why not just go inside during the boil and keep the burner outside? I watch from a window for boil, reduce flame a bit to maintain a good but not crazy boil and come back for my next hop addition. When it is time to chill I deal with the cold for 10 minutes. Open ball valve into fermenter and go back inside.

 

[ILMSTMF]

I work for a company that primarily sells propane burners so I'm obviously going to say don't brew in your garage. Not only because of CO. You've also got an open flame in close proximity to everything people keep in garages that shouldn't be near an open flame. Lots of people have fuel cans, chemicals etc. Propane leaks shouldn't happen if you leak test appropriately, but if it did happen due to equipment failure it's a much more dangerous situation in your garage than if you were outside.

Why not just go inside during the boil and keep the burner outside? I watch from a window for boil, reduce flame a bit to maintain a good but not crazy boil and come back for my next hop addition. When it is time to chill I deal with the cold for 10 minutes. Open ball valve into fermenter and go back inside.

I sure opened a can of worms with this one, eh?
To my friend who works with the propane burner company, I salute you. The purpose of my inquiry is to determine the safest practice despite the knowledge of the process, itself, being risky. This goes back to old adage "If all your friends jumped off a bridge..." However, I've yet to read any horror stories about folks in our community who have had a situation involving a fire, CO poisoning, or any serious injury and/or property damage. I would be interested to know if I'm wrong.
There are a few reasons why I won't brew outside of the garage:

• mash temp will drop. Last batch I did in garage, kettle was covered with an old comforter and secured with bungee. After the hour, temp still managed to drop almost 10 degrees. Garage door was wide open on a 64 degree day.

• less important but still a factor - I have an anchor point for the hook and pulley near the middle of the garage. If I set up the burner anywhere else besides below that anchor point, you guessed it, I'll have to move the kettle with a full mash volume to the anchor point. Before anyone suggests it, my ladder isn't tall enough to function as a high enough anchor point while the kettle is situated on the burner + legs.

• then there's the issue of water spigot location for IC hose connection.

I do have a battery powered CO detector that I will be bringing in for all future brews.

Regarding propane leaks, I was considering the idea of using a heavy duty tank instead of the wide variety that is typically used for outdoor grills. I got it in my head that the type used for a forklift provides a stronger container than the gas grill variety. Have I been mislead?
Thanks all!

 

[D-west]

Why not just go inside during the boil and keep the burner outside? I watch from a window for boil, reduce flame a bit to maintain a good but not crazy boil and come back for my next hop addition. When it is time to chill I deal with the cold for 10 minutes. Open ball valve into fermenter and go back inside.

Do you cover it with anything like a lid or screen?

 

[swampbrewcrew]

I see your point, but I feel its over cautious for someone taking the proper precautions.



If we were to follow this advice, my gas dryer, gas furnace, and gas water heater shouldn't be in my garage

I fully understand people do it, just know that IF a freak accident occurs and something did go wrong. Insurance isn't gonna pay, nor will the company that made the burner. So your putting your house and everything at risk.

 

[swampbrewcrew]

I crack the door open about 1 foot when heating water, but when I'm boiling my BK, the door is open full. More to vent the steam outdoors so my paint won't peel. The door from my garage to basement is open and the CO monitor never chirps. Of course, the monitor is probably 20 feet away from the burner, so that's probably not relevant.

One thing I have noticed from the guys here that argued when I said I sell propane burners for a living. You both apparently have CO monitors and understand that there is a risk. Remember that people on these forums are always asking how to cut costs and brew as cheap as possible. We all realize the cost of making good brew isn't always the cheapest option. You don't have to have a hydrometer, auto-siphon, starsan, mash thermometer, or a temp controller to make drinkable beer. Most of us spend extra to make our beer better, everyone who ever decides to brew in their garage should consider a CO monitor as mandatory as the propane burner. To appease the legal team should anything ever become of this I do not endorse ever using a propane burner in a garage or any other semi enclosed space.

 

[brewprint]

I always enjoy re-heating my mash when I do BIAB with propane out in the garage. There's nothing like my eyes burning.

It just gives me an idea of how bad that stuff really is.

I remember being at a brew day with the brew club. It was last February. The doors in the garage were shut and there were at least 4 propane burners going. I finally said; is anyone else's eyes burning? I didn't want to sound like a 'you know what' but I had to say something. Everyone in the garage agreed and then the door was opened. It wasn't my house and I had never been to a brew day before, so I didn't know what the protocol was.

My suggestion is everyone bust out another thousand and go electric lol!

 

[ILMSTMF]

One thing I have noticed from the guys here that argued when I said I sell propane burners for a living. You both apparently have CO monitors and understand that there is a risk. Remember that people on these forums are always asking how to cut costs and brew as cheap as possible. We all realize the cost of making good brew isn't always the cheapest option. You don't have to have a hydrometer, auto-siphon, starsan, mash thermometer, or a temp controller to make drinkable beer. Most of us spend extra to make our beer better, everyone who ever decides to brew in their garage should consider a CO monitor as mandatory as the propane burner. To appease the legal team should anything ever become of this I do not endorse ever using a propane burner in a garage or any other semi enclosed space.

I always enjoy re-heating my mash when I do BIAB with propane out in the garage. There's nothing like my eyes burning.

It just gives me an idea of how bad that stuff really is.

I remember being at a brew day with the brew club. It was last February. The doors in the garage were shut and there were at least 4 propane burners going. I finally said; is anyone else's eyes burning? I didn't want to sound like a 'you know what' but I had to say something. Everyone in the garage agreed and then the door was opened. It wasn't my house and I had never been to a brew day before, so I didn't know what the protocol was.

My suggestion is everyone bust out another thousand and go electric lol!

Again, I want to say that I respect you, my friend who works for the burner company. I take your words of caution seriously - my family's safety is my first priority. With that, I am considering bringing the brew into the driveway where the ground should still be relatively level. The concerns are still how TF I'm going to fabricate an anchor point for the bag lift, keeping the heat in during mash, and reaching the water spigot (and drain sink) for the IC phase.

With all that, it's hard to lean toward that location for subsequent brews. CO is a concern but I've got the door open plus a monitor very near by to solve that. So what else, safety-wise would be an inherent risk of using the propane in the garage? I know, common sense - other stuff could catch fire. Anything else, likely or unlikely, that poses a risk? Thank you all!

 

[pshankstar]

Again, I want to say that I respect you, my friend who works for the burner company. I take your words of caution seriously - my family's safety is my first priority. With that, I am considering bringing the brew into the driveway where the ground should still be relatively level. The concerns are still how TF I'm going to fabricate an anchor point for the bag lift, keeping the heat in during mash, and reaching the water spigot (and drain sink) for the IC phase.

With all that, it's hard to lean toward that location for subsequent brews. CO is a concern but I've got the door open plus a monitor very near by to solve that. So what else, safety-wise would be an inherent risk of using the propane in the garage? I know, common sense - other stuff could catch fire. Anything else, likely or unlikely, that poses a risk? Thank you all!

I should have elaborated some more on my original post. I make sure everything is out of the way in my garage, so there is no tripping hazard or anything too close to the flame. I make sure there are no spills or wet spots from snow/rain/ice in the garage too. I always open the garage door all the way for a few minutes while I get things setup so the garage can vent before I light the burner. I have a fire extinguisher mounted on the wall near the entrance to my house. This way it never gets blocked if I need to move anything around.

I have an anchor point near the middle of my garage (eye bolt in stud). I bring the water up to mashing temp right below the pulley. Once the mash water is ready which usually doesn't take long, I place the bag in the keggle and pour in the grains. From that point I wrap the keggle and leave it be for the hour of mashing. Then I tie the bag to the pulley and raise the bag up and let it hang for another 10-15 mins. Then I place a large bowl under the bag and move the keggle and burner out to the drive way (warmer months) or near the garage door. Depending on how windy or cold it is I have the door opened a little (about two feet) or all the way. From that point I start the burner again to get the boil going. After the bag is barely dripping (usually by the time the boil begins or shortly there after), I dump the wort from the bowl into the boil. This way I am not trying to move the keggle with a bag full of grains too.

I'm not sure if this will help or solve your problem, but I thought I would better explain my process. Good luck and keep brewing!

 

[tjmac5071]

Do you cover it with anything like a lid or screen?

No. I am not sure I understand why I would do that? Keep leaves and such out? My house backs up to a state Forest so I have more than my fair share of trees but I can't say I've ever had a problem. In the summer I am always milling about and in the winter I can take a quick look from a window so it's not like I leave it unchecked for 60 minutes, just I do not hover. Having kids there is always something else to be done while the boil is going on. Only time I hover is when kids are outside and I guard it like crazy. Luckily there has yet to be interest from my 3 yr old daughter but I'll never let my guard down there...

 

[8rnw8]

We had two burners going in my buddies basement with only his basement door open for ventilation. Looking back probably not our best idea, but then my stove is propane also (though much less BTU's probably) and I routinely have all 4 of those burners on with no ventilation so...

*shrug

 

[MaryB]

For mash water and sparge I heat with doors closed but I have a LOT of volume of air in my garage(24x30x10' ceilings) so CO will take awhile to built up. When I do my 60-90 minute boil I open the man door 2 inches and crack a window 2 inches. The cross flow of cold air scours the CO out just fine. I sit 3 feet from the boil burner for warmth and the CO detector has never measured much above normal readings. And my garage is new construction and pretty dang airtight.

 

[D-west]

I see your point, but I feel its over cautious for someone taking the proper precautions.



If we were to follow this advice, my gas dryer, gas furnace, and gas water heater shouldn't be in my garage

I fully understand people do it, just know that IF a freak accident occurs and something did go wrong. Insurance isn't gonna pay, nor will the company that made the burner. So your putting your house and everything at risk.

Not sure what kind of policy you have, but mine covers accidental fires:

"Your homeowners insurance policy will cover accidental fires, but it won't cover any loss if you intentionally set fire to your home."

People are typically more cautious around open flame. Its the oily rag and or an electrical issue that cause most house fires.

 

[Atlmustang]

Propane in my garage scares the crap out of me. I bought a bayou classic and was pumped about a brew space in my garage. As I was serting up my bur er in my garage one brew day I read in the manual only to brew in a space with 10 feet from the burner on all sides in a wide open area. So I moved from my garage into my driveway. Then i had to fight off bugs, heat, leaves, etc from my wort. In the end, i moved back into my clean and sterile kitchen. It dont get as vigorous of a boil but i am not worried about my wort. Wish I had an electric set up and will work towards that.