Propane boiling indoors

[william_shakes_beer]

I know what the safety manuals say. Does anyone do propane boils indoors? If so how do you address exhaust ventilation? I can see issues in the winter with trying to boil outdoors, but don't want to end up esphixiating myself (unless I end up with REALLY good beer )

 

[fococlimber]

rule of thumb, when in doubt, don't do it.

 

[LCTitan]

If by indoors you mean the garage you should be able to do this provided you leave the garage door open a bit so you are getting air in there. Should stay pretty warm in the garage. I use a propane heater for my woodshop in the garage and it works well. I plan on doing all my 1 hour boils out of the house now as the kitchen walls are sweating way too much and getting way to warm in the kitchen even with the windows open and the temps in the 40's.

 

[Skaggz]

You wont know if its good beer if you have carbon monoxide poisoning.

I saw a video with a guy brewing in his garage. The took a piece of plywood and cut two square holes in it to mount two box fans that blew outward outside. He mounted this assembly in a doorway. Didn't look like he had a big garage door. He then opened all windows for air inlet. Whatever you do be careful. A fire extinguisher and a carbon monoxide detector would be good to have on hand.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Define indoors...

I have brewed in my shop with the roll up door open a few inches.
I have had 5 brewers in my shop with the door all the way open.

I have 2 CO detectors in the shop, neither went off.

That said, I wouldn't do it in the living room.

I have brewed in my shop with the roll up door open a few inches.
I have had 5 brewers in my shop with the door all the way open.

I have 2 CO detectors in the shop, neither went off.

That said, I wouldn't do it in the living room.

I have brewed in my shop with the roll up door open a few inches.
I have had 5 brewers in my shop with the door all the way open.

I have 2 CO detectors in the shop, neither went off.

That said, I wouldn't do it in the living room.

Never had an ill effect on me

Ed

 

[william_shakes_beer]

detector's a good idea. Probably start in the basement. Open hopper window and/or a fan setup would help. thinking thinking thinking

 

[Skaggz]

Define indoors...

I have brewed in my shop with the roll up door open a few inches.
I have had 5 brewers in my shop with the door all the way open.

I have 2 CO detectors in the shop, neither went off.

That said, I wouldn't do it in the living room.

I have brewed in my shop with the roll up door open a few inches.
I have had 5 brewers in my shop with the door all the way open.

I have 2 CO detectors in the shop, neither went off.

That said, I wouldn't do it in the living room.

I have brewed in my shop with the roll up door open a few inches.
I have had 5 brewers in my shop with the door all the way open.

I have 2 CO detectors in the shop, neither went off.

That said, I wouldn't do it in the living room.

Never had an ill effect on me

Ed

Except the mindless repeating. But don't worry, its hardly noticeable.

 

[jtlawlor]

+1000 on the CO2 detector, it is heavier than air and will literally creep up on you. If you search there is a big thread I remember reading with some pretty scary stories of close brushes with CO2 and brewers on this board.

Note: I brew in my garage all winter.

 

[cheezydemon3]

+100000 on DON"T BREW IN THE HOUSE A$$HOLE!!!!!!!!!!!!


Seriously!

 

[maida7]

This is a major point of contention among brewers. Some think it's no big deal. Other say your gonna burn your house down. It's a risk so understand what your getting into, and make your own decision.

For the record I do all my brewing with multiple burners in my garage with the door open for ventilation.

I do recommend storing the tanks outside when your not using them. The tanks could possibly leak and the gas will form a pool and then maybe it blows up. I doubt your insurance will cover it.

 

[tunoffun]

We live in the AZ desert. And yet - every year - there's at least one reported story of some dip**** off'ing themselves by grilling food or running propane burners indoors.

Don't be that dip****.

Carbon monoxide poisoning gives zero warning. By the time you realize you made a mistake, it's usually too late.

 

[snowman]

A friend of mine blew himself up last winter with propane fumes and an electrical spark. He wasn't thinking, smelled a problem then made a dumb move unplugging an electrical cord instead of cutting power from the outside. He survived altho he couldn't wipe his own ass for months. He wasn't brewing so no beer was ruined.

I boil 60min extract in my basement with my propane tripod burner and 40qt. pot, under an open window. I know what the flame is supposed to look like, am aware of how co is formed and have used lpg for 50+yrs, have had leaky cylinders and all sorts of burners and heaters. If you know what you are doing and have modern equipment in good condition there is less risk than crossing a busy street in a big city. A co monitor is added protection but won't help with lpg leaks if you don't know how to check for them. If you keg you probably know how to check for gas leaks.

If you have proper knowledge and are confident in yourself that you are able to apply that knowledge then don't let paranoia get in your way unless that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy and safe.

It is dangerous so act according to your own knowledge and abilities and don't forget that if you drink while brewing you are impaired.

 

[jfr1111]

I'd check with my insurer first to see if I was covered if an accident were to happen. And then I would not do it, because no insurance company will pay if I explode my ass to pieces brewing beer indoors with propane.

I know everyone feels they are above following the safety procedures explained in the instructions for most appliances, but this is one case where you don't want to go against what the little booklet says.

 

[Cowbizzoy]

I've done it...CO detector right close....reading never went above 0.

Sure i opened all the windows and checked for leaks before lighting it... new burner, new tank...nice new hose...

As long as the flames are blue there shouldn't be an issue....not many have had issues with gas stoves...this is just a wee bit more powerful.

Probably wise to move the tank back outside when you're done though.

 

[LCTitan]

Intresting conversation. I have used a propane heater for several years in my garage with the tank a safe distance away from the burner and the door cracked open without issue. The key here is to allow for some ventilation and make sure everything is attached properly. Blue flame is a very good indicator of this. Keep the tank away fom the burner and you should be fine if you use common sense. Not a bad idea to add the CO2 monitor as well.

 

[billf2112]

It is not about carbon dioxide, propane that burns with a blue flame only gives off co2 and water. I have a propane heater in my basement and it is not vented. They sell unvented propane fireplaces.

 

[Justibone]

Carbon monoxide is slightly lighter than air, and when it's heated it will rise.

Carbon dioxide is heavier than air, but with a burner going there's enough air churning around that it will mix.

CO2 (dioxide) is dangerous, but you will know you are breathing it. You will have trouble inhaling. Ever open a pop bottle and try to breathe what's inside? You physically cannot do it, it's a natural response.

CO (monoxide) is super dangerous. It bonds to hemoglobin more tightly than oxygen (O2), so that slowly your blood becomes unable to carry oxygen and you asphyxiate. Even if you get into fresh air, it takes a long time for the CO to "wash" out of your bloodstream. You could literally die right in front of the paramedics, even on 100% O2, and no one can do jack-squat about it. Your options are a barometric chamber, a blood transfusion or a hearse. That's about it.

Don't screw with CO. Frostbite is WAAAAY easier to deal with.

 

[maida7]

I got a new Kick Ass burner and fired it up in the garage just a few minutes ago. Maybe I did not have enough ventilation cause I'm still feeling dizzy.

 

[rgray58]

I got a new Kick Ass burner and fired it up in the garage just a few minutes ago. Maybe I did not have enough ventilation cause I'm still feeling dizzy.

Be thankful you were able to type this account afterwards.

Anyone still thinking about using propane indoors just needs to read between the lines of the various advice (or definite NOs) and make their own decision. Whatever you choose, you are ultimately responsible and you can't point back to an Internet forum and say someone told you it was okay. If you have no clue what it takes for good ventilation, you need to set up your burner in the middle of an open field with about 50' of hose between the burner and tank. If you still don't have a clue, have a firetruck and ambulance standing by. Anything less is up to you.

 

[droopy77]

It is not about carbon dioxide, propane that burns with a blue flame only gives off co2 and water. I have a propane heater in my basement and it is not vented. They sell unvented propane fireplaces.

just because they sell them does not mean they can be used anywhere. unvented propane appliances are illegal in a basement, bedroom, bathroom, or place of business. check the NFPA 54 codes, an insurance company does not have to pay out a penny if an accident or mishap occurs due to a code violation. i'm not trying to be smart but i am a licensed LP tech and have seen people go to the hospital many times from unvented fireplaces.

 

[snowman]

unvented is not the same as ventless.

I'm surprised some of these folks even dare to drink beer...

 

[cklages]

In the three years I spent flying floatplanes in the north, there were three fatalities in my area directly caused by CO poisoning from unvented cooking appliances. Two of the people killed were a father and son on vacation, the rest of the family showed up the next day and found the bodies.

There was also one cabin burnt to the ground by some people messing with a turkey cooker and propane tank next to a propane fridge (nobody killed, but a few of them were burnt a little).

Remember that the effects of CO are cumulative, as it takes the body a long time to eliminate it, so low exposure over the long term is as bad as high doses in the short term. As far as I am concerned, those ventless propane appliances ought to be illegal as well.

Couple all of this with the problems associated with putting a gallon or more of water into the air in your home in a short period of time. Is it worth it? I dunno, but I think that there are worse things than getting outside for a little fresh air for an hour and a half on brew day.

edit: I did a little research, and those ventless propane heaters are illegal in Canada, as well as Massachusetts and California.

 

[goodgodilovebeer]

We Canadians brew outside in winter. I've brewed when it was -20 Celcius, its not extremely comfortable, but c'mon...you're a brewer. Enjoy it, blue extremities and all.
I wouldnt f**k with burning propane inside, even under the best conditions. But that's my 2 cents.

 

[marcycaulkins]

Us Vermonters boil outside in the winter, too. At least I do. Don't be a wuss.

 

[william_shakes_beer]

wow, thanks for all the replies. You've all given me a lot to think about. I'm in the process of searching for a new home and haven't the budget for a garage. Guess I shall be looking for a deck off the kitchen. Moderator feel free to close this thread if desired.

 

[the_bird]

There are propane hot water heaters and such that are designed to work indoors, but they're much, much cleaner burning than any of the burners we use as homebrewers. The insurance is a real issue, too - if the worst were to happen, you've got to think they're going to deny a claim if they find out a big-ass (designed for outdoors) propane burner was to blame.

With that said, I've brewed in other people's garages, and if I had a decent garage would brew in mine. Keep the door open, it's never THAT cold when you're standing over a propane burner, put on a jacket if you're THAT chilly. You'll be out of the wind anyway. I wouldn't trust the ventilation from just keeping the door open a couple inches.

CO2 monitor is a great idea, as is a fire extinguisher.

Inside the house, I wouldn't do. I know a guy from here who boils in his basement with propane, I'd never, ever do that myself. If you *need* to brew inside, you *need* to build an electric system (IMHO).

 

[jfr1111]

^^^ +1. As I said, even if I had an adequate setup with no risk of CO poisonning, I wouldn't do it anyway because if an accident were to happen (tripping on a hose, burner malfunctios, etc.) and something catches on fire in the house, I would be toast. My insurance company would fight tooth and nail to deny my claim and I can't imagine myself convincing a judge that I was in the right using an appliance labeled and designed for outdoors use inside because of the risk of "catching a cold" or "getting frostbite" while brewing beer.

It's not a case of being a paranoiac pansy, people have lost their lives and houses doing stuff less dangerous than this inside of their homes (falling alseep while smoking being a prime example).

 

[crash1292]

propane is heavier than air and will collect in your basement...then the water heater fires off and boom

 

[LCTitan]

What I am probably going to do is brew outside if it's not really bad out and if it is brew in the garage with the door open. The main thing I need to do is move out of the kitchen for my one hour boils. The SWMBO will really appreciate this. There is an unbelievable amout of heat and humidity caused by the one hour boil in the kitchen and the furnace never kicked in for at least two hours due to the thermostat picking up the temps in the kitchen. The thermostat in on the other side of the wall in the family room.
I can't fathom how guys would brew indoors in the spring and summer.