I wanted to proof my dry yeast packet that came with my kit to make sure the yeast was still viable. I boiled water then let it cool to 90 degrees. I dumped the yeast in and let it sit for 20 mins to hydrate. I then put in one tspn of LME to proof it. After 30 minutes I wasn't seeing any action so I put in 1 tbsp table sugar and immediately saw a reaction. Will this negatively affect my yeast or fermentation process. I saw action in the air lock 4 hours after I sealed my primary fermenter.
Proofed dry yeast with sugar, is this a problem?
- Thread starter bmmathe
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No, it should be fine. You effectively made a very small starter. Keep in mind that the viability of dry yeast is not nearly as much of a problem as liquid. Liquid will go bad in 3 months or so. Dry will last at least a year.
Meh... Some say you 'train' your yeast to eat simple sugar over eating LME.... In your case since you added LME first, I'm guessing it won't be really a problem. It is possible you will have trouble finishing. But I doubt it. What was your recipe?
beerman0001
Well-Known Member
Why did you feel like you needed to proof your yeast? Dry yeast is packaged so all you do is rehydrate with water then pitch STOP making things SO hard.
bk0
Well-Known Member
I did this with my first batch too. Everything turned out fine.
simzy
Well-Known Member
What is so hard about adding sugar water to yeast?
When pitching yeast, I always feel it's best to pitch when your yeast is at the height of activity. So, if you're using liquid yeast and making a starter, I pitch 24-48 hrs after I make the starter so I'm pitching when the yeast is most active.
With dry yeast, I use the same technique as you. I put a couple teaspoons of DME into pot of boiling water, then cool and add the yeast. By the time my wort is cooled and I'm ready to pitch yeast, I can see yeast activity and I know they are ready to start making beer.
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I usually create mini-starters like this. I would use just sugar water, but start recently taking some of the wort while it's cooling outside to make my mini-starter. I think either is ok, although others would disagree
Has there been any testing of this idea? I've heard it a few times.
I pitched some Nottingham into a fruit cooler made with table sugar, then racked off and put in some mead. The yeast picked up just fine and has been chugging away at it.
Has there been any testing of this idea? I've heard it a few times.
I pitched some Nottingham into a fruit cooler made with table sugar, then racked off and put in some mead. The yeast picked up just fine and has been chugging away at it.
Proofing with sugar can potentially damage yeast cells, if you're not careful about how much sugar you're using. Dr. Clayton Cone (phD in microbiology, 30 years experience) says:
(emphasis added). So, if you choose to add sugar to your rehydration water and do the mini-starter method, make sure you are putting a sufficiently small amount of sugar that you do not overwhelm the yeast cells in that crucial reconstitution phase. That being said, with the possibility of damaging yeast cells by adding sugar and no demonstrable benefit from doing so, I think you're always better off simply rehydrating your yeast in around 100 degree water and not bothering to add any sugar at all before pitching.
(emphasis added). So, if you choose to add sugar to your rehydration water and do the mini-starter method, make sure you are putting a sufficiently small amount of sugar that you do not overwhelm the yeast cells in that crucial reconstitution phase. That being said, with the possibility of damaging yeast cells by adding sugar and no demonstrable benefit from doing so, I think you're always better off simply rehydrating your yeast in around 100 degree water and not bothering to add any sugar at all before pitching.
I experimented with dry yeast in sugar water,plain water,& small DME starters. 1.5-2C of boiled water with 1tsp dextrose made my ales visibly start fermenting a bit quicker than plain water re-hydration has been lately. It really seems to get them reproducing more aggresively than plain water. Finished well too. The damage mentioned in my opinion is minimal at best with 1tsp dextrose in 2C of water for 15g of yeast. It just seems to reproduce faster than without.
As Dr. Cone states, it's just a number's game. If you damage half of the yeast cells in a dry yeast pack, there are likely still enough to get the job done. The ones that survive may very well be "more aggressive" (although cell count is only partially related to your lag time, the other main factor being the presence of sufficient oxygen in your wort) but it doesn't change the fact that you are effectively under-pitching your beer. At a microbiological level, there is a "best way" to rehydrate your yeast, and that is in plain water.
Your not going to kill 50% of the yeast cells with only 1tsp dextrose in 2C of water. He said LARGE AMOUNTS,like maybe 1/4C+ in the same 2C of water would be a problem. By my observations,a 7g packet of dry yeast rehydrated with 1tsp dex in 2C of water started as quicikly & aggresively as a 11.5g packet of US-05 in a similar ale next to it. So that scientist may be right to a small extent,but it's not that bad that genocide is being rought on the yeasties. I think that's a bit exagerated. It worked quickly & fully for me...
Is the concern osmotic damage from too highly concentrated sugar solution? (osmotic dehydration of the yeast cells--since there are more solute particles in a highly concentrated sugar solution compared to the intracellular fluid in the yeast, water moves out of the yeast and into the sugar solution...yeast cells dehydrate &/or die)
I'm not sure. I know that there have been studies concerning temperature and osmotic dehydration, but I'm not sure if there have been studies concerning percentage sugar in solution and osmotic damage (other than those concerning osmotic pressure limitations).
Osmotic pressure is a big pat of my side of the coin. A small amount of corn sugar in 2C of water isn't much. Just enough to get them going more vigorously,in my little experiments/observations.
A study on that would be interesting,as I see that a low concentration is benificial. I also noticed that it took the re-hydrating yeast about 15 minutes to start going & making a bit of krausen.
A study on that would be interesting,as I see that a low concentration is benificial. I also noticed that it took the re-hydrating yeast about 15 minutes to start going & making a bit of krausen.
From what I've seen, the osmotic pressure studies have all centered on maximum gravity levels, so I'm not sure that they would be applicable to the ultra small scale issues we're discussing here.
I agree that it would be interesting to see a study on exactly what levels of sugar would be too much for the yeast cell during reconstitution. But I wonder if such a study would ever be performed because dry yeast manufacturers will tell you that you shouldn't re-hydrate with sugar present in the first place and that, most of the time, proofing isn't necessary unless you have some serious concerns about viability of the yeast. In some cases, dry yeast was designed specifically not to be in the presence of sugars until pitched into your wort (see John Palmer, How to Brew, Section 6.5). So, speaking generally, I don't think it's wise to advocate the addition of sugar to your rehydration water until there is some compelling reason to do so. Considering that microbiologists that know a lot more about the potential damage mechanisms than we do are suggesting to just use plain water, I think that carries a lot more weight than anecdotal evidence about lag times, which may be completely unrelated to your cell count.
Well,bread yeast is always re-hydrated with some sugar,about the same amount of yeast at home. But with more sugar. And they eat the sugars in the flour with what moisture is present,producing co2 to make the dough rise.
So in principle,still being yeast,it shouldn't be all that different,since the result is pretty much the same. It helps the reproductiver phase kick into high gear,thus reducing lag time. I've done it several times,with no stalling or ill effects. So the smaller amount of sugar used in more water for brewing vs bread making should be better. If I mearly re-hydrate,the yeast lag time is greater. And the fermentation isn't always as vigorous. That's why I'm thinking the small amount of dextrose added isn't effecting normal osmodic pressures that much.
So in principle,still being yeast,it shouldn't be all that different,since the result is pretty much the same. It helps the reproductiver phase kick into high gear,thus reducing lag time. I've done it several times,with no stalling or ill effects. So the smaller amount of sugar used in more water for brewing vs bread making should be better. If I mearly re-hydrate,the yeast lag time is greater. And the fermentation isn't always as vigorous. That's why I'm thinking the small amount of dextrose added isn't effecting normal osmodic pressures that much.
I'm using the Autumn Ale kit from Midwest.
http://www.midwestsupplies.com/homebrewing-ingredients/recipe-kits/amber-ales/autumn-amber-ale.html
6 lbs Gold LME
2 oz Special B, 8 oz Caramel 80L
1 oz Hallertau
1 oz Fuggle
1 dry packet yeast (can't remember brand)
I read in John Palmer's book "How to Brew" first edition that it's a good idea to proof the yeast to make sure it's not dead. In the latest edition he says that you shouldn't proof the yeast because they are packed with nutrients that you don't want the yeast to use in the proof.
Another note, the next day after pitching the air lock stopped bubbling. I hear that is fine so I'm just going to let it sit for a couple weeks and take a gravity reading.
http://www.midwestsupplies.com/homebrewing-ingredients/recipe-kits/amber-ales/autumn-amber-ale.html
6 lbs Gold LME
2 oz Special B, 8 oz Caramel 80L
1 oz Hallertau
1 oz Fuggle
1 dry packet yeast (can't remember brand)
I read in John Palmer's book "How to Brew" first edition that it's a good idea to proof the yeast to make sure it's not dead. In the latest edition he says that you shouldn't proof the yeast because they are packed with nutrients that you don't want the yeast to use in the proof.
Another note, the next day after pitching the air lock stopped bubbling. I hear that is fine so I'm just going to let it sit for a couple weeks and take a gravity reading.
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