You need to send everyone following this thread a bottle when finished!
Yes, I like that idea!
This is really interesting.
Primitive/Improvised Methods Beer
- Thread starter November
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Yes, I like that idea!
This is really interesting.
Fedora
Glorified Janitor
This is very cool stuff , November. Brewed the hard way, huh? Hats off to you, sir. I'll be watching for updates.
OP
OP
Ok. So as promised, I had my wife take measurements and just not tell me until I finished. I did this because I didn't want to make adjustments during the process to compensate for mess ups.
Take away? I'm good at temps, terrible at weights and volumes.
I nailed all of the drying temps within a degree or two. My method was to keep a shot glass of water in with the grain and periodically stick my thumb in it. 120 seemed pretty natural to me, like bathwater that is just barely too warm.
My use of quarts to weight was right for premalted grain but way off for sprouted grain so what I thought was 8 or 9 pounds ended up being like under 6.
Mash temp wasn't bad, I thought I was low and I was right. It was 142 when I mashed in and put it back in the fire and 150 when I took it off.
Final volume is about 2.5 gallons. Gravity is 1.038. I mashed in with all the water and did no sparge. 1/3 of the malt was homemade crystal and the rest was kilned about as dark as light Munich.
Take away? I'm good at temps, terrible at weights and volumes.
I nailed all of the drying temps within a degree or two. My method was to keep a shot glass of water in with the grain and periodically stick my thumb in it. 120 seemed pretty natural to me, like bathwater that is just barely too warm.
My use of quarts to weight was right for premalted grain but way off for sprouted grain so what I thought was 8 or 9 pounds ended up being like under 6.
Mash temp wasn't bad, I thought I was low and I was right. It was 142 when I mashed in and put it back in the fire and 150 when I took it off.
Final volume is about 2.5 gallons. Gravity is 1.038. I mashed in with all the water and did no sparge. 1/3 of the malt was homemade crystal and the rest was kilned about as dark as light Munich.
OP
OP
Just tried a sample I pulled and cooled.
Tastes like warm wort. That's not real descriptive but I guess I mean it tastes like normal prefermentation beer. Not very bitter right now. I might have gotten low hops utilization or my hops may be old or maybe it will come out more as at ferments.
It smelled amazing while boiling though. Like lots of crystal and Munich.
I have heaps of white hot coals. Anyone have a javelina or goat I can borrow?
OP
OP
You need to send everyone following this thread a bottle when finished!
You guys want to try beer filtered through grass and cooked with bricks?
We might be able to put something together when it finishes.
Still I wish I could have gotten the yeast project to work, but there is always next time.
1977Brewer
Free Dan Hess.
You guys want to try beer filtered through grass and cooked with bricks?
You've been around way longer than me, but even I know this question answers itself.
So you got it boiling and kept it boiling with bricks alone? You didn't have a fire under your kettle?
And to your question: yes, I would definitely try this beer if you can confirm there were never any crocs in the vicinity. Good job.
And to your question: yes, I would definitely try this beer if you can confirm there were never any crocs in the vicinity. Good job.
OP
OP
Ha! I read that story. Nope, no crocs in the area.
Yes, it was probably like 120 or so after I let the mash drain then I got it to a boil and kept it boiling by just cycling out the bricks. I was losing heat faster than the bricks could recover by the end but not by much. With ten bricks I probably could have boiled indefinitely, or at least until the fire died.
I probably could have heated the bricks quicker if I stuck them right in the fire but this way I didn't get ash in the beer.
Putting the pot right in the fire would have worked but I didn't want a lot of mesquite smoke flavor.
Yeah, I'm guessing ash flavor wouldn't be very tasty.
I spy chimney starters in one of your photos. Next time you could put one of those rockets under the pot! I'm thinking two chimneys, one after the other, plus the hot bricks would get you through the boil and leave you enough room on that grill for some brats. Less brick cycling work at least.
By putting the kettle over the fire I wonder how much smoke flavor that would impart. The bricks that were directly in the smoke were getting cycled in and out of the wort it self, I wonder if that in of it self would actually transfer even more smoke flavor.
I spy chimney starters in one of your photos. Next time you could put one of those rockets under the pot! I'm thinking two chimneys, one after the other, plus the hot bricks would get you through the boil and leave you enough room on that grill for some brats. Less brick cycling work at least.
By putting the kettle over the fire I wonder how much smoke flavor that would impart. The bricks that were directly in the smoke were getting cycled in and out of the wort it self, I wonder if that in of it self would actually transfer even more smoke flavor.
OP
OP
Good point it might have gotten smoke from the bricks.
I used the chimneys as hobo stoves to cook the crystal malt and it worked like a charm. I'm sure you could boil a few gallons on two, they put out a lot of heat.
I am already thinking about version 2 and I think I might build a large brick rocket stove, large enough to fit the bricks in the stove itself and still put a pot on top. That and I want to get the wild yeast to work.
This whole thing was a lot of fun so I might go a bit crazier on the next one. If any one has some off the wall ideas let me know.
OP
OP
It's alive.
ArkotRamathorn
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I wish I had your experimental motivation, excellent work, this is really what it's all about I think.....imagine all the failures back in that "Pre-Homebrewtalk Era".
Bambooshoot
Member
A thought on your yeast conundrum.
For millennia, the way people got yeast for their next batch was to reuse from an old batch. I think it would NOT be cheating to either (a) save some yeast from your next batch made with commercial yeast, or (b) pitch your primitive beer on top of the yeast cake from your next batch made with commercial yeast, or (c) use the dregs from a bottle of commercial unfiltered/unpasteurized beer to build up a starter. All three of these methods were probably used by beermakers for centuries or more, before the days when you could buy clean commercial yeast.
The Mad Fermentationist has a great resource on harvesting commercial dregs.
For millennia, the way people got yeast for their next batch was to reuse from an old batch. I think it would NOT be cheating to either (a) save some yeast from your next batch made with commercial yeast, or (b) pitch your primitive beer on top of the yeast cake from your next batch made with commercial yeast, or (c) use the dregs from a bottle of commercial unfiltered/unpasteurized beer to build up a starter. All three of these methods were probably used by beermakers for centuries or more, before the days when you could buy clean commercial yeast.
The Mad Fermentationist has a great resource on harvesting commercial dregs.
I vote for option starting out with option C, then reusing that yeast from then on making it a house yeast. "Foraging" for yeast in bottle dregs seems to me like it's pretty much in the spirit of what your doing.
Heck, to make it more of a surprise you could build up dregs from several different beers at once and just see what you wind up with.
OP
OP
I regularly use the first two methods so they are pretty normal sounding to me. I like the third option though especially if I used multiple dregs from different beers. Kind of a Russian roulette with yeast. Might give it a try in version 2.
speeddemon190
Well-Known Member
totally awesome....yes send me a bottle
I've done quite a bit of cooking like this with the "rock boiling" method.
The way I've always dealt with the ash is to have two containers handy. One with whatever I am cooking (usually some kind of stew or tea), and another one with rinse water.
When the (10-15) rocks are nearly glowing hot in the fire, I take them out with long tongs, quickly drag them through the rinse water to clean off the ash etc... then drop them in the cooking pot.
I'll keep 2-5 baseballish size rocks going, and when one stops looking like it's boiling the crap out of the liquid, then it goes back into the fire, and another one gets rinsed and added.
After a boil is going, I have found that a couple baseball sized rocks can boil a gallon or two of water for quite a while. Maybe 10 minutes.
Glowing hot rocks might cause quite a bit of caramelization (scorching?) of the wort, just something to consider.
One way to get more exact with your strike water is to use boiling water and ice water. Having an exact temperature of your water will help. 1 part ice water (32 degrees) to 2.5 parts boiling water (212 degrees) will give you strike water of 161.
OP
OP
Interesting note on the ice water. I purposefully avoided all use of ice in this project, but might be of use to someone that suddenly finds themselves without a thermometer.
WillieP
Well-Known Member
Very cool thread, hope this turns out wonderful for you!!
OP
OP
One week into fermentation, I pulled a tiny sample just to see how things were progressing.
It smells like week old cigarette smoke and tastes like breathing in a lung full of thick white mesquite smoke. It actually burns the back of my throat a little.
It probably not the worst thing I've ever put in my mouth, but that may be more a result of poor choices in my youth than positive qualities of the beverage.
They say things get better with age. Here's to that hope. I will taste it again in two weeks. I put too much work in it to dump it. Its going in bottles no matter what.
It smells like week old cigarette smoke and tastes like breathing in a lung full of thick white mesquite smoke. It actually burns the back of my throat a little.
It probably not the worst thing I've ever put in my mouth, but that may be more a result of poor choices in my youth than positive qualities of the beverage.
They say things get better with age. Here's to that hope. I will taste it again in two weeks. I put too much work in it to dump it. Its going in bottles no matter what.
1977Brewer
Free Dan Hess.
Well darn. Hope it levels off at some point.
Curtis2010
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Oh man I'm sorry to hear that.
Sounds like Culinarytracker and Curtis2010 are on to something.
Did you taste the wort before pitching? If it was scorching that would be something you could have known right away right? Maybe the ash taste literally is ash brought over on the bricks.
Sounds like Culinarytracker and Curtis2010 are on to something.
Did you taste the wort before pitching? If it was scorching that would be something you could have known right away right? Maybe the ash taste literally is ash brought over on the bricks.
ArkotRamathorn
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There's a couple silver linings to this. You probably made a good cooking beer. I almost would think it could act like alcoholic liquid smoke.
1. Would make fantastic BBQ sauce I bet (unless BBQ sauce is sacriledge to Arizonians, I can't remember who hates BBQ sauce)
2. Brine a whole chicken or chicken thighs in it (super yum) then grill them
3. Mesquite malt vinegar (just pour a bottle in an open container really vigourously and leave it for a couple weeks until it turns vinegary)
4. Chili deglazing liquid
5. This is making me hungry so I am going to stop
It could've been far worse, it could taste like a 5lb dirty baby diaper. It could still age out, in 6 months a lot of the particulate matter floating around in the beer may settle out and the smoke flavor will mellow a bunch. At least it didn't turn into my Cherrywood Smoked IPA that was meant to be a cherrywood smoked scotch ale, in all my wisdom split the recipe for multiple attempts but forgot to split the cherrywood smoked malt and the hop additions and quadrupled my sulfate instead of upping my chloride, I basically only use this beer for cooking now.
1. Would make fantastic BBQ sauce I bet (unless BBQ sauce is sacriledge to Arizonians, I can't remember who hates BBQ sauce)
2. Brine a whole chicken or chicken thighs in it (super yum) then grill them
3. Mesquite malt vinegar (just pour a bottle in an open container really vigourously and leave it for a couple weeks until it turns vinegary)
4. Chili deglazing liquid
5. This is making me hungry so I am going to stop
It could've been far worse, it could taste like a 5lb dirty baby diaper. It could still age out, in 6 months a lot of the particulate matter floating around in the beer may settle out and the smoke flavor will mellow a bunch. At least it didn't turn into my Cherrywood Smoked IPA that was meant to be a cherrywood smoked scotch ale, in all my wisdom split the recipe for multiple attempts but forgot to split the cherrywood smoked malt and the hop additions and quadrupled my sulfate instead of upping my chloride, I basically only use this beer for cooking now.
lowtones84
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I'm sure the smoke flavor will fade considerably. Either way, awesome experiment and now you have some direction for next time! 
OP
OP
It is definitely starting to mellow. The smell is more subdued and the taste is still smokey but a lot less sharp. Another week at least.
Fingers crossed.
Fingers crossed.
Anyone reading this thread would probably enjoy this website. It might give you some ideas for streamlining this process.
http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/
http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/
You know, decoction is superb for brewing without thermometers. The temperature of well water is a given, as is the boiling point at your altitude. In temperate climate zones, using 1/3 of your mash for each decoction step is a reliable rule of thumb. Great experiment! If you want to get authentically brewed Steinbier try to get Granitbock by Hofstetten, as far as I know they export to the states.
balauru_327
Active Member
I didn`t read all the posts,maybe you did this but you coulded wash your yeast with some chloride.
So sorry, if i have done a mistake.
Anyway great job with your ideea.
So sorry, if i have done a mistake.
Anyway great job with your ideea.
OP
OP
Pulled a sample. it sure has come around. Just a bit of smoke. There's a new flavor helping out too. It's Brett. It looks like the infection is just starting. I'm going to let it run its course. It's either from the open air it was exposed to instead of an airlock or my idea of sanitizing the fermenter by dumping in boiling wort and doing no chill didn't work.
Always an adventure. To be honest though the brett flavor is actually rounding out the smoke.
Always an adventure. To be honest though the brett flavor is actually rounding out the smoke.
lowtones84
Well-Known Member
Awesome! Glad to hear that the smoke is mellowing, and the news about the Brett. Now you just may have your house yeast for primitive beer
OP
OP
Smoke is very much diminished. It has a gorgeous pellicle, if your in to that kind of thing. I'm going to Ft. Bliss for 5 weeks for work so I will check on it after that.
Dang. Five weeks is a long time to leave something like this. It could be amazing or need even more time, or the bugs could end up going too far and ruining the whole thing. Best of luck, I'll be looking forward to seeing the next update at the end of April.
Gotta see how this turns out!
cmschlatt
Member
Any update?
OP
OP
Just got back a couple of days ago, so it has been sitting for five weeks.
The pellicle has not dropped yet but I was able to draw a sample. The smoke taste is almost gone. Just a wisp of smoke and a bit of a woody taste otherwise the beer is pretty simple. It feels very thin and even a bit boozy. The Brett flavor is pretty subtle at the moment.
I guess I will give it a bit longer for the Brett to chew its way through.
The pellicle has not dropped yet but I was able to draw a sample. The smoke taste is almost gone. Just a wisp of smoke and a bit of a woody taste otherwise the beer is pretty simple. It feels very thin and even a bit boozy. The Brett flavor is pretty subtle at the moment.
I guess I will give it a bit longer for the Brett to chew its way through.
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