Priming! What exactly happens during the process?

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IanEiderbo

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I've been looking around to find an answer to this question for a while now. When you add your priming sugar you basically give the yeast a little more food to eat. As I've understood it the beer will need 2-3 weeks in room temperature to carbonate. This got me thinking though. Shouldn't the small amount of priming sugar ferment rather quickly, like a few days? This would mean that the remaining time of the carbonation is actually just the CO2 going into the liquid instead of sitting on top. I could be wrong but I was thinking that having the beer in room temps for a week and then in the fridge for a week would give you faster results since colder liquid easier holds CO2?
 
Try it out and let us know. Take a few bottles from a batch, and try your fridge method, and carbonate the rest normally. Compare and see if there's a noticeable difference.
 
While logical, your thought that the yeast is done metabolizing the prime in a few days is not correct. During the fermentation the large numbers of yeast suspended starts out with air and sugars that it uses to multiply and then produce the alcohol and co2 ( which at this point, is flashed off unless your fermenting under pressure)
Yeast used to pitch is at optimal health wether you do starters or use tubes or smack packs. At the end of your secondary ( or long primary), when you bottle, much of the yeast has settled out due to lack of food, there is very little air( yeast is a facultative anaerobe - it can live without air, but it doesn't like to) and there is alcohol present, which is lethal to any organism in high enough amounts.
All these factors cause what yeast you do carry over into the bottles to be rather dormant and slow. This means the yeast actually needs the 2-3 weeks to finish that small prime of sugar and make co2. Since the bottle is crowned, there is an equilibrium of co2 in the liquid and the headspace at any given time. Cooling the beer only allows more co2 to stay in solution once the bottle is opened.
 
... Additionally, that doesn't mean that a beer won't carb in a shorter period of time, it just means it's unlikely. If you have a low- flocculating strain more yeast is carried over into the bottle and in suspension and/or if you have a beer with a lower OG the environment won't be as harsh, your beer could carb in a week or so. I have noticed from experience however that it usually takes a few weeks at a minimum for the flavor of the beer to hit it's full potential.
Hope that helps.
 
I know its hard to be patient at first but we've all been there. As the yeast farts out CO2 it will effect the flavor a lot. In most beers the ingredients will also blend and settle with time. The stout I brew regularly is a prime example. At 2-3 weeks it tastes strong and bitter. However at 6-8 weeks its great. Time does matter. If you brew darker and or higher gravity beers then carbing will take longer.

Beerloaf
 
Maybe try this. Some good empirical data for you here.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/pressure-gauge-mounted-bottle-cap-268151/

IMG_05692.JPG
 
Your bottles have a TINY amount of yeast left in them. Like less than 0.001% of the original colony size that's in the bottom of your primary after racking.

That's why it takes more than a couple hours to devour 4oz of pure sugar.

Its like you laid off the entire company of workers except 3 janitors, and expect them to still output the same production levels at the factory.
 
So there's the yeast thing for sure (less of 'em, takes a while to metabolize, etc)

There's also the physical carbing process - actually dissolving a liquid into a gas. At higher pressure it works faster. At lower pressures (i.e., that which bottles can handle) it takes longer. So even if you have positive pressure after a week, it still isn't properly carbed because the CO2 isn't fully dissolved yet.

A lot of guys that taste early notice it tastes harsh & fizzy - that's because the CO2 isn't fully dissolved and comes out of solution easier - carbonic acid on your tongue, no fun. But over time, the bubbles get smaller & less harsh tasting. Hence the 3 week timeline.

EDIT: I am wrong, see Bobby's post on the next page.
 
I USUALLY have perfectly carbed beer in about 2 weeks, by the 3rd week the head retention starts to really perfect it self and flavor melding/correcting is more or less complete, you CAN drink your beer after like... idk 7 or 8 days depending on conditions (dont hate, you all know you have also) but by the time you get to the 21 day mark, you want to punch your self in the face for wasting awesome beer by drinking it early and not fully enjoying it.

By putting it in the fridge that early, you're putting the already weak yeast cell back to sleep, with no O2
 
So there's the yeast thing for sure (less of 'em, takes a while to metabolize, etc)

There's also the physical carbing process - actually dissolving a liquid into a gas. At higher pressure it works faster. At lower pressures (i.e., that which bottles can handle) it takes longer. So even if you have positive pressure after a week, it still isn't properly carbed because the CO2 isn't fully dissolved yet.

A lot of guys that taste early notice it tastes harsh & fizzy - that's because the CO2 isn't fully dissolved and comes out of solution easier - carbonic acid on your tongue, no fun. But over time, the bubbles get smaller & less harsh tasting. Hence the 3 week timeline.

I posted this on passedpawn's other thread but I'll paste it here. My understanding is that the above is not true at all.

************************
It seems that quite a few people think that a yeast-initiated carbonation in the bottle causes the headspace to pressurize with more CO2 molecules than are initially dissolved in the beer from the metabolism of the sugars. I think this is an issue of mixing concepts we learn from the application of external CO2 in a force carbonation situation.

First, keep in mind that in a closed system of liquid and co2, the concentration of CO2 will always seek equilibrium. The transfer from an area of higher concentration to lower is a result of diffusion. Yes, I do agree that the process can take a little time (dependent on a couple different factors).

In a force carb situation, the concentration of CO2 in the beer is generally low (it depends on what temperature the beer was fermented at as well as what temperature it was subsequently warmed to while still in an open container (airlocks count since gas can escape).

Think of it this way: The beer is essentially generating CO2 in the carboy and it has to push against the ambient atmosphere to escape through the airlock. At sea level, that's about 14psi. If you fermented the beer at a rock solid 70F, when fermentation is done, the dissolved CO2 is approximately .7 volumes before you do anything else. In other words, as it was fermenting, the beer AND the headspace were sitting at 14psi or 1ATM and .7 volumes of CO2 cannot escape from the beer. In reality, the concentration in the beer will be a bit higher than the headspace because it's actively being generated and that's why a bubble forms and rises to the surface. When fermentation is over, eventually all the excess CO2 in the beer will equalized to the headspace resulting in .7 volumes dissolved.

Now you take that beer, transfer it to a bottle, add sugar, and seal the cap. Now the ambient 1ATM of pressure is irrelevant. We're in a closed system. As yeast metabolize the sugar and create CO2, the concentration of CO2 in the beer is immediately higher than that of the headspace, let's say .8 volumes... diffusion is about to make the headpace equal and so on. In no way would the headspace ever have a higher concentration of CO2 than the beer in which it originated. The yeast don't swim to the surface to fart.

One last side note that isn't really on topic, but perhaps interesting anyway. If you have a beer in a carboy that is done actively fermenting, the CO2 concentration in the beer and in the headspace will eventually equilibrate to the concentration of CO2 in the area it's sitting in. For all intents and purposes, it's the concentration of earth's atmosphere (.0387% by volume). This sort of blows people's minds because you think, how can CO2 get past the water in the airlock? It diffuses into the water, then it diffuses out on the other side. Oxygen and nitrogen do the same thing in the opposite direction. The water just slows it down.
 
Great explanation. Consider my position changed. Thank you.

So, given this explanation, why is my beer fizzy and harsh after a week, but much better after 2-3 weeks? Not talking flavor of the beer / conditioning, just carbonation (assuming those two can be evaluated separately, probably a bad assumption)
 
I think the harshness can be attributed to refermentation byproducts and suspended yeast. I'm really speculating here but just like the beer tastes pretty awful right at the point where FG is reached in the carboy, a few days to a week after a beer is carbed in the bottle, you've got yeast in suspension and the refermentation that just occured was in some harsh conditions; low cell count, worn out yeast that was last to floc out, etc. I think that's one of the reasons breweries that are focused on high quality bottle conditioned beers will use krausening to make sure it's done with healthy active yeast.

The extra time allows for the same kind of conditioning that occurs in bulk aging as well as time for the yeast to completely fall out. It's probably more of the latter because even a beer that has fully carbed warm for a week will taste great after another week in the fridge.
 
Yeah, that definitely makes sense. Speaking of suspended particles...they'd also create more nucleation sites for CO2, which may also contribute to fizziness? ...and as those particles drop out, less nucleation?
 

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