Maybe I'm over thinking this but do I need to take into account the extra volume of liquid I'll add to the cider when using juice to prime? I have 3 gallons of cider and juice that has 28 grams of sugar per 8 oz. My plan was to add 24 oz (3x8) of juice to the bottling bucket until this thought crept into my brain. Any thoughts? TIA
Priming cider with apple juice
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VikeMan
It ain't all burritos and strippers, my friend.
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If you want to most accurately predict the volumes of CO2, then yes, you need to account for the additional volume from the water. OTOH, I'll add that almost everyone who primes beer (or cider) with sugar water blissfully ignores the added water volume.
My approach to priming is to determine what SG will result in the desired carbonation (i.e. figure out the g/L of sugar needed, or just work on two gravity points fermenting into about one volume of CO2), then add AJ to the cider to get this SG. I mostly use AJ for priming, and this way I don't have to worry about the sugar content or volume of the added AJ.
For carbonation, I am not really fussed about the exact amount of CO2 as long as it is somewhere near what I want (I am not sure that I could really tell the difference between something like 2.3 vols and 2.5 vols anyway).
For carbonation, I am not really fussed about the exact amount of CO2 as long as it is somewhere near what I want (I am not sure that I could really tell the difference between something like 2.3 vols and 2.5 vols anyway).
Thanks, VikeMan. I felt like that was the case but wasn't sure. I also agree with your last sentence. I never have, anyway, nor have I ever seen it mentioned.
Thanks, Chalkyt. Interesting approach. I may give that a try. My main concern is to not under carb it. Not a fan of still cider.
Based on your numbers you have about 12 litres of cider and your AJ has 118g/L of sugar (SG 1.054). I work on needing to ferment 5 gravity points (9 g/L) of sugar to get 2.5 vols of CO2 (and as a bonus you get another 0.65% ABV).
The 3 x 8 oz of AJ you are proposing to add to the 12 litres of cider is 0.7Litres. At 118g/L this will only add 6.6g/L which when fermented will result in a bit less than 2 volumes of C02. So, you will need to add roughly a litre of the AJ to your 12 litres of cider to end up with 13 litres and 118g/L of sugar (12 x 0g/L plus 1 x 118g/L) for 118g/13L = 9.1g/L (SG 1.005). That is why I like to work towards the SG needed for my carbonation level. I just find this approach a bit more practical (and it works for sugar syrup and any other source of liquid fermentable sugar).
A word of warning is that depending on their source, some tables of SG vs Sugar include the non-fermentables that are in AJ. These can account for up to 20% of the SG but they aren't the same for all AJ. The point of this is don't get too hung-up on precision calculations. (FYI... Lea, Jolicoeur and Proulx & Nichols all seem to quote similar sugar g/L vs SG figures).
The 3 x 8 oz of AJ you are proposing to add to the 12 litres of cider is 0.7Litres. At 118g/L this will only add 6.6g/L which when fermented will result in a bit less than 2 volumes of C02. So, you will need to add roughly a litre of the AJ to your 12 litres of cider to end up with 13 litres and 118g/L of sugar (12 x 0g/L plus 1 x 118g/L) for 118g/13L = 9.1g/L (SG 1.005). That is why I like to work towards the SG needed for my carbonation level. I just find this approach a bit more practical (and it works for sugar syrup and any other source of liquid fermentable sugar).
A word of warning is that depending on their source, some tables of SG vs Sugar include the non-fermentables that are in AJ. These can account for up to 20% of the SG but they aren't the same for all AJ. The point of this is don't get too hung-up on precision calculations. (FYI... Lea, Jolicoeur and Proulx & Nichols all seem to quote similar sugar g/L vs SG figures).
Zambezi Special
Well-Known Member
Yeah, you have to account for it to a certain extend, well more the sugar actually
I did one batch and just topped up with apple juice. Only then realising that I added to about a total of 25 gr sugar per litre (all inclusive) for carbonation instead of the 7 that I wanted.
Pure stupidity, but noticed in time, so I let it ferment again.
Luckily this was in a keg, so let go for a bit and then attached a spunding valve.
I did one batch and just topped up with apple juice. Only then realising that I added to about a total of 25 gr sugar per litre (all inclusive) for carbonation instead of the 7 that I wanted.
Pure stupidity, but noticed in time, so I let it ferment again.
Luckily this was in a keg, so let go for a bit and then attached a spunding valve.
It can be a little mind-bending trying to work out how much juice, concentrate or sugar syrup to add to the cider for carbonation.
However, FYI the following is how I do it. It is based on the idea that (Sugar in the cider) + (Sugar in the juice ) = (Sugar needed in the combined volumes of cider plus juice for carbonation). I don't know if this is the "official" way to solve the problem, but it works for me. Sounds a bit messy, but it can be expressed as a simple formula...
(Vc x Sc) + (Vj x Sj) = (Vc x Sf)+ (Vj x Sf), which solving for Vj = Vc x (Sf-Sc)/(Sj-Sf)
Using Vc = volume of cider (12L), Sc = g/L sugar in the cider (0g/L), Vj= volume of juice added, S j= g/L of sugar in the juice (118 g/L), and Sf = the final g/L of sugar needed for carbonation after the juice is added (9g/L).
So, for the original problem Vj = 12 x (9 - 0)/(118-9) = 108/109 = 0.99 litres, i.e. add 1 litre of juice to the cider to end up with a concentration of 9 g/L* of sugar (SG 1.005 for 2.5 vols of CO2).
* this figure is taken from the P&N table. Generally, at higher SGs there is reasonable agreement between published tables but wider variations for lower SGs, hence my preference for working with SG required for carbonation.
However, FYI the following is how I do it. It is based on the idea that (Sugar in the cider) + (Sugar in the juice ) = (Sugar needed in the combined volumes of cider plus juice for carbonation). I don't know if this is the "official" way to solve the problem, but it works for me. Sounds a bit messy, but it can be expressed as a simple formula...
(Vc x Sc) + (Vj x Sj) = (Vc x Sf)+ (Vj x Sf), which solving for Vj = Vc x (Sf-Sc)/(Sj-Sf)
Using Vc = volume of cider (12L), Sc = g/L sugar in the cider (0g/L), Vj= volume of juice added, S j= g/L of sugar in the juice (118 g/L), and Sf = the final g/L of sugar needed for carbonation after the juice is added (9g/L).
So, for the original problem Vj = 12 x (9 - 0)/(118-9) = 108/109 = 0.99 litres, i.e. add 1 litre of juice to the cider to end up with a concentration of 9 g/L* of sugar (SG 1.005 for 2.5 vols of CO2).
* this figure is taken from the P&N table. Generally, at higher SGs there is reasonable agreement between published tables but wider variations for lower SGs, hence my preference for working with SG required for carbonation.
