Pressurized transfers from Fermonster to corny keg

[ApolloSimcoe]

I see you're using a rubber stopper and that will work as long as you don't need it to hold any pressure.

Actually this weekend i cold crashed that beer and as the temps dropped i continued to push CO2 into the fermenter. That rubber stopper held and at times the fermonster was a little swollen

 

[Hannabrew]

Actually this weekend i cold crashed that beer and as the temps dropped i continued to push CO2 into the fermenter. That rubber stopper held and at times the fermonster was a little swollen

It will hold some pressure but it's not worth the aggravation when it eventually fails you. When I ferment in my corny kegs I use a rubber stopper thermowell and any more than a couple PSI makes me nervous to due to some past unpleasant experiences

 

[gromitdj]

Actually this weekend i cold crashed that beer and as the temps dropped i continued to push CO2 into the fermenter. That rubber stopper held and at times the fermonster was a little swollen

It will hold some pressure but it's not worth the aggravation when it eventually fails you. When I ferment in my corny kegs I use a rubber stopper thermowell and any more than a couple PSI makes me nervous to due to some past unpleasant experiences

I use one of these regulators and a couple of appropriately sized barbs between my CO2 tank and the fermonster for cold crashing. I've never seen the fermonster swell up at all.

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

When I say it was swole a little i mean it was VERY little. More like a drum. Either way its going in the keg tonight

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

I did my transfer to keg last night and it went just OK. It transferred slower than i thought it would, no big deal here, i just kicked back and watched the rain. Right near the end (about 1 gallon left) it decided to stop transferring. I checked my spund valve to make sure that was working, it was. The next thing i did was remove the gas QD from the tank and put on a beer QD. I used this to blow CO2 in the keg draw tube and then into the floating draw on the fermenter in hopes that it would clear an obstruction. Both had bubbles flowing out easily. I put both QD's back where they belong to continue transfer and still no flow. thoughts?

 

[Hannabrew]

I've found elevating the fermenter as high as possible is very helpful when doing closed transfers. I put it on top of a bucket which sits on top of a 4 ft table. you could even lay the keg down on it's side if you really want to maximize gravity's contribution.

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

i'll give it a shot. Here is what I had set up.

 

[Dgallo]

@BrewMan13

 

[brewswithshoes]

I do a gravity powered closed transfer rather than a pressurized transfer. I start with a keg that is filled with CO2, but not under pressure.

The fermenter spigot will spray beer if it's under pressure, even when the spigot is closed. But with this method it works like a charm -- no problems with the spigot.

View attachment 619630

When I first started doing closed transfers I would fill the keg with CO2 by first filling it with StarSan, then pushing it out with bottled CO2. I've since learned that fermentation will produce enough volume of CO2 to effectively purge an empty keg, so I stopped using bottled gas for that and started capturing fermentation gas:

View attachment 619631

To prevent air from being pulled backward through the airlock (and into the keg) during cold crashing, I use a mylar balloon on top of the fermenter to capture some CO2. The hose to the balloon is clamped off for the first day or two of fermentation, to give time for the headspace in the fermenter to be purged by fermentation. After that the clamp is opened, there's no need to touch it again -- everything takes care of itself during cold crashing.

The first photo shows the balloon clamped off on the first day, and the second shows it when it's been allowed to fill.

View attachment 619632

@LittleRiver or others that do this. I'm going to start using a keg to capture fermentation gas. when hooking this up (like you have in second picture on post #5, would i want the fermentor to off gas into the out (black connection) post then the airlock would connect to the gas in (gray connection) on the keg?

I'm assuming I'd want the heavier CO2 gas coming into the keg from the liquid line at the bottom and pushing the lighter O2 out thru the gas in (shorter dip tube) at the top. looking at your pic it's reversed so wanted to make sure before i try this.

 

[LittleRiver]

...I'm assuming I'd want the heavier CO2 gas coming into the keg from the liquid line at the bottom and pushing the lighter O2 out thru the gas in (shorter dip tube) at the top. looking at your pic it's reversed so wanted to make sure before i try this.

That pic was taken when I was experimenting with this rig, I tried it both ways. I've been wondering if anyone was going to ask about that picture. What I settled on was having the fermentation gas come in the black/beer post, and the grey/gas post being used for the airlock. Like this:



The reason I came to that conclusion was not due to concerns about gases mixing. The gases are going to naturally diffuse and mix -- whatever you do. CO2 will not stay as a separate layer on the bottom of the keg.

If the keg is completely dry and empty, it should not matter which post is used.

But the inside of the keg will not be dry and completely empty. It will have been freshly washed and rinsed with StarSan. What I found was that even with a thorough draining, there were enough drops of moisture to pool into the bottom of the keg and cover the end of the long (beer) dip tube. When I had fermentation gas going in through the grey/gas post, the gas would try to push that liquid up the long dip tube. That made enough back pressure to pop open the lid of my Big Mouth Bubbler fermenter (which is notorious for having a slippery lid when it is wet with StarSan).

When the gas comes in through the black/beer post, it just bubbles through that small amount of liquid and there are no back pressure issues, so that's the way to go.

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

I wanted to circle back on this and see how you all are doing with this. I've done 3 batches using this and so far its been great. One issue i have been running into though is the depth of the draw at the bottom of the floating ball. The distance is about 1-1.5", so while the ball is still floating in the beer the draw is now in the trub at the bottom of the fermenter. Has anyone come up with a solution on how to decrease that distance? I've tried starting with the fermenter slightly tilted but have gotten less than stellar results with this method

 

[Hannabrew]

I wanted to circle back on this and see how you all are doing with this. I've done 3 batches using this and so far its been great. One issue i have been running into though is the depth of the draw at the bottom of the floating ball. The distance is about 1-1.5", so while the ball is still floating in the beer the draw is now in the trub at the bottom of the fermenter. Has anyone come up with a solution on how to decrease that distance? I've tried starting with the fermenter slightly tilted but have gotten less than stellar results with this method

Ha, I was just coming here to post the exact same question.

However I think the solution to this issue is to cut the tubing shorter. My thought is if the diptube is about 1.5 inches off the bottom of the fermenter (or however long you prefer) with nothing in the fermenter then when there is beer in there it can never get lower than that and hopefully all your trub will be below it. If for some reason there is beer below that line I would THINK you could tilt the fermenter to get the rest but I will let you know as I'm about to snip mine as we speak.

The only downside to this is I have been using my floating dip tubes interchangeably between kegs and fermonsters so now I need to pay attention to which is which (or at least the tube part of it).

Anybody have any other ideas or reasons why this wouldn't work?

 

[Hannabrew]

Discovered another good solution...a magnet! Once the dip tube gets to the point where it's about to suck trub, grab it with a magnet and hold it in place

This also works well for keeping the dip tube out of the hop debris when dry hopping...I just "pin it" above the liquid line until I crash it all to the bottom

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

Discovered another good solution...a magnet! Once the dip tube gets to the point where it's about to suck trub, grab it with a magnet and hold it in place View attachment 662557

This also works well for keeping the dip tube out of the hop debris when dry hopping...I just "pin it" above the liquid line until I crash it all to the bottom

BINGO! You got Bingo!

 

[Paladen]

like the idea of purging empty sanitized keg with Co 2 from the fermenter.
RE : Gravity Transfer. I would assume the return line from keg to fermenter is to provide a vent without introducing air into the fermenter ? Also sealing the keg would also have to be done with a 30lb ( or less) burst of bottled CO 2 correct ?

This all seems like a more convenient way than bottled CO 2 purging and pressure transfers.

 

[LittleRiver]

...Gravity Transfer. I would assume the return line from keg to fermenter is to provide a vent without introducing air into the fermenter ?...

Correct. The fermentation gas that has collected in the keg transfers into the headspace of the fermenter as the liquid drains into the keg.

... sealing the keg would also have to be done with a 30lb ( or less) burst of bottled CO 2 correct ?

There is no need to pressurize the keg at any point (until it's time to carbonate the beer).

This all seems like a more convenient way than bottled CO 2 purging and pressure transfers.

Absolutely. I've done it both ways, and have now standardized on fermentation gas purging and gravity powered transfers. It works.

 

[McKnuckle]

@LittleRiver why do you lay the keg on its side during (what I believe is) the transfer stage?

 

[LittleRiver]

... why do you lay the keg on its side ...

To get more height differential.

My setup puts the fermenter kinda low, and I don't like moving the fermenter before the transfer because I don't want to disturb the trub.

Laying the fermenter on its side was an idea I got from one of the good people here on HBT. Same is true for the little filter.

 

[Paladen]

So simple, did first gravity xfer today. SS Brew bucket fermenter on standard height table to upright keg on the floor. I thought it might stop because of the head pressure in the keg filling from the bottom,but it worked great the first time. Still had to first purge the keg w bottled CO 2 but will purge from fermenter on next brew day and from now on

 

[brewman !]

Are you guys putting the airlock on the gas ball lock ?

 

[brewman !]

it will be 100% air tight up to 20psi.

A fermonster will hold 20 PSI ?????

Fantastic thread, people !

 

[brewman !]

I've had modded lids with gas and thermowell but recently added the liquid and looking forward to trying it!
View attachment 624847View attachment 624848

What is the liquid connector that the dip tube is attached to ? Edit: I figured it out... it is a thermowell for a thermistor.

Why do you need a balllock liquid connector ?

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

A fermonster will hold 20 PSI ?????

Fantastic thread, people !

This has not been my experience. YMMV as it did for Loud Brewing. I am also not using the keg lube he is on the O-Ring. This may be something I will try moving forward.

Most of the time i hear a slight hissing noise coming from the lid. Other times I don't. The lid is the only complaint I have about the Fermonster at this point and its a small one

 

[LittleRiver]

Are you guys putting the airlock on the gas ball lock ?

Yes, during fermentation put the airlock on the gas post of the keg.

 

[Steven Barrett]

@LittleRiver I really like the elegance of gravity transfer, especially for glass carboys. What I was ruminating is whether you could pressurize the keg in lieu of filling the mylar balloon but now I am seeing the potential issue, as it would also pressurize the fermonster if the two were connected.

 

[SmokeyRydr]

I've had modded lids with gas and thermowell but recently added the liquid and looking forward to trying it!

in case anybody else wants to try this, one thing I found out the hard way is that you will need to cut one of your long liquid dip tubes in order to have something to put the tubing on for the floating dip tubes. Either that or find someone who carries extra long gas dip tubesView attachment 624847View attachment 624848

hey, I want to add a thermowell like you did. do you remember where you got the thermowell & bulkhead?

 

[LittleRiver]

I got my thermowell here.

 

[SmokeyRydr]

Wow, this so much better than a racking cane!

this is all it took:
1- blank lid
2- bulkhead posts
1- floating dip tube

the tip about using a magnet to "pin" the pickup tube worked great.

thanks for all the tip!

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

Discovered another good solution...a magnet! Once the dip tube gets to the point where it's about to suck trub, grab it with a magnet and hold it in place View attachment 662557

This also works well for keeping the dip tube out of the hop debris when dry hopping...I just "pin it" above the liquid line until I crash it all to the bottom

Update! I brewed a NEIPA and was ready to Keg. Lots of hops in the bottom. Had my Super Magnet ready! Turns out neither the draw tube or the metal ring that connects it to the ball are magnetic....
In your photo it looks like you have two rings. Did you add a second that would attract a magnet? And if so wouldnt that rust?

 

[SmokeyRydr]

Update! I brewed a NEIPA and was ready to Keg. Lots of hops in the bottom. Had my Super Magnet ready! Turns out neither the draw tube or the metal ring that connects it to the ball are magnetic....
In your photo it looks like you have two rings. Did you add a second that would attract a magnet? And if so wouldnt that rust?

It worked for me. I used one of those super strong rare-earth neodymium magnets. the metal didn't seem very magnetic, but just enough.