Pressurized transfers from Fermonster to corny keg

[Jayjay1976]

Hi, I'm not set up for kegging yet but I am in the early stages of planning out my system. I would like to do pressurized transfers from my ported fermonster to the keg and was wondering if the plastic spigot will be a weak point in this setup. Since all of my fermonsters are ported, if the faucet is going to be a problem I'm looking for a way to plug the hole in the vessel wall.

Thanks,
Jayjay

 

[TheHopfather]

Check out this thread, it has the info you are looking for;

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...er-from-fermonster-big-mouth-bubblers.585875/

 

[Murphys_Law]

I do it all the time. I modified a lid to add a gas in connector and will run a line from my fermonster spigot to liquid out on the keg, and one from the gas in on the keg to the gas in connector on my modified lid.

 

[Loud Brewing]

 

[LittleRiver]

I do a gravity powered closed transfer rather than a pressurized transfer. I start with a keg that is filled with CO2, but not under pressure.

The fermenter spigot will spray beer if it's under pressure, even when the spigot is closed. But with this method it works like a charm -- no problems with the spigot.

When I first started doing closed transfers I would fill the keg with CO2 by first filling it with StarSan, then pushing it out with bottled CO2. I've since learned that fermentation will produce enough volume of CO2 to effectively purge an empty keg, so I stopped using bottled gas for that and started capturing fermentation gas:

To prevent air from being pulled backward through the airlock (and into the keg) during cold crashing, I use a mylar balloon on top of the fermenter to capture some CO2. The hose to the balloon is clamped off for the first day or two of fermentation, to give time for the headspace in the fermenter to be purged by fermentation. After that the clamp is opened, there's no need to touch it again -- everything takes care of itself during cold crashing.

The first photo shows the balloon clamped off on the first day, and the second shows it when it's been allowed to fill.

 

[Jayjay1976]

The spiderman balloon was a solid choice, really sets it off!

 

[LittleRiver]

The beer is super.

 

[SyracuseBrewBrothers]

View attachment 619628

Any tips on the build for that Fermonster lid? Been trying to throw something together like that myself.

 

[day_trippr]

I'd start with the solid lid...

Cheers!

 

[schmurf]

Do you guys get a tight sealing with lids on the fermonster? My lids are modified like in post #4 but under some pressure it always leaks, and if I thighten it more the lid cracks. I'm on my 3rd lid now...just ordered 2 new ones just in case.

 

[bjhbrew]

Do you guys get a tight sealing with lids on the fermonster? My lids are modified like in post #4 but under some pressure it always leaks, and if I thighten it more the lid cracks. I'm on my 3rd lid now...just ordered 2 new ones just in case.

I’ve had problems with cracking lids too. Putting some keg lube on the top of the fermenter before screwing on the lid has provided a reliable seal for me. Before I started doing that I could never get a seal.

 

[SyracuseBrewBrothers]

I'd start with the solid lid...

Cheers!

I'm already working with this. (See pictures.) But it leaks CO2 when it gets jostled around.

 

[Loud Brewing]

Any tips on the build for that Fermonster lid? Been trying to throw something together like that myself.

Strat with solid lid as mentioned above and get some threaded ball lock posts (gas and liquid) https://www.williamsbrewing.com/Liquid-Ball-Lock-With-Threaded-Post-P4507.aspx
use a spade bit (1/2" I believe) pop 2 holes and use these gaskets or something similar https://www.williamsbrewing.com/Faucet-Lever-Black-Gasket-P1504.aspx it will be 100% air tight up to 20psi. I then attach a floating dip tube https://www.williamsbrewing.com/Top-Draw-Beer-Pick-Up-Tube-P4643.aspx to the liquid side which works much better than a fixed dip tube or racking cane imo.
I also use keg lube on my fermonster lids/orings and bought the $3 lid wrench.
Let me know if you have any other questions, this makes closed transfers a breeze.
One last tip, remove the spring and poppet from the liquid side post and ball lock, as hop matter can sometimes collect there and slow the transfer.
My procedure is to swap lids during final dry hop and use an unmodified ball lock on bev side, then cold crash under pressure when ready (1-2 psi with bottle attached) remove from keezer, crack lid to release pressure, swap unmodified bev ball lock for modified one (no spring/poppet) that is on tubing with another bev ball lock on other side, attach to keg, open prv and slowly add 1-5psi to begin flow.

 

[Hannabrew]

Strat with solid lid as mentioned above and get some threaded ball lock posts (gas and liquid) https://www.williamsbrewing.com/Liquid-Ball-Lock-With-Threaded-Post-P4507.aspx
use a spade bit (1/2" I believe) pop 2 holes and use these gaskets or something similar https://www.williamsbrewing.com/Faucet-Lever-Black-Gasket-P1504.aspx it will be 100% air tight up to 20psi. I then attach a floating dip tube https://www.williamsbrewing.com/Top-Draw-Beer-Pick-Up-Tube-P4643.aspx to the liquid side which works much better than a fixed dip tube or racking cane imo.
I also use keg lube on my fermonster lids/orings and bought the $3 lid wrench.
Let me know if you have any other questions, this makes closed transfers a breeze.
One last tip, remove the spring and poppet from the liquid side post and ball lock, as hop matter can sometimes collect there and slow the transfer.
My procedure is to swap lids during final dry hop and use an unmodified ball lock on bev side, then cold crash under pressure when ready (1-2 psi with bottle attached) remove from keezer, crack lid to release pressure, swap unmodified bev ball lock for modified one (no spring/poppet) that is on tubing with another bev ball lock on other side, attach to keg, open prv and slowly add 1-5psi to begin flow.

Do you take out the poppet and spring in the keg side too? Otherwise I would think you'd have the same problem.

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

@Loud Brewing. I'm very curious about that set up you have and I'm leaning in that direction. Do you run into any issues with the opening near the ball clogging with hops/yeast/krausen?

what happens as you near the bottom of the fermenter?
thanks!

 

[Loud Brewing]

@Loud Brewing. I'm very curious about that set up you have and I'm leaning in that direction. Do you run into any issues with the opening near the ball clogging with hops/yeast/krausen?

what happens as you near the bottom of the fermenter?
thanks!

No clogging if you cold crash hard, but you can also do what I did and cut a couple slits in each side of the aluminum pickup tube.
Since the trub level always differs there is no perfect length for the tubing, but I usually overshoot my volume and the keg is full before I get all the way to the bottom, but dont stress if a little gets picked up.

 

[Loud Brewing]

Do you take out the poppet and spring in the keg side too? Otherwise I would think you'd have the same problem.

Just on the fermenter side as I have noticed that's where most of the clogging happens and I want to reduce o2 pickup on the keg side, so no changing poppets there

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

thank you! Ordering today

 

[Aristoi]

I literally just finished modifying my solid lids last night. Go super slow with spade bit (i had a drill press so may not be advisable by hand) to get you close and finish off with exacto to fine tune the hole to fitting size, shaving it while running exacto knife along inside edge of hole.

Big thanks to @Bobby_M for getting me setup with all the fittings and floating diptube. Also found a new use for his cold crash guardian until i get my CO2 line plumbed through the wall of my fridge.

Another technique for those that do this to avoid oxygen ingress:
1) I swap the QD on my CO2 tank from gas to liquid, having flare fittings makes this easy.
2) Whole lid contraption is dipped in starsan
3) I hook up gas QD to liquid post on lid and turn up gas to slow flow CO2
4) Unscrew airlock lid and insert floating diptube with running gas and screw it on with gas running. This purges diptube line of air before insertion and push out any oxygen introduced from lid swaps. I put a gas QD on gas post to fully purge once lid is sealed as well to be sure i got it all out.

 

[Hannabrew]

I've had modded lids with gas and thermowell but recently added the liquid and looking forward to trying it!

in case anybody else wants to try this, one thing I found out the hard way is that you will need to cut one of your long liquid dip tubes in order to have something to put the tubing on for the floating dip tubes. Either that or find someone who carries extra long gas dip tubes

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

I found out the hard way is that you will need to cut one of your long liquid dip tubes in order to have something to put the tubing on for the floating dip tubes

Man, I wish I had known this before I placed my order. I did order an extra dip tube because i was going to some fermentation in kegs, maybe I'll have to cut it. Will a gas in tube work or is it to short? Also, how did you attach that thermowell. I have some of those and am right now using a #10 bung with dual openings. All my new stuff should be to my house Friday, with a Classic American IPA to be brewed this weekend if the weathers good.

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

Here is my set up. Thanks for the tips!

 

[Hannabrew]

Man, I wish I had known this before I placed my order. I did order an extra dip tube because i was going to some fermentation in kegs, maybe I'll have to cut it. Will a gas in tube work or is it to short? Also, how did you attach that thermowell. I have some of those and am right now using a #10 bung with dual openings. All my new stuff should be to my house Friday, with a Classic American IPA to be brewed this weekend if the weathers good.

I use a weldless thermowell from brewhardware. I see you're using a rubber stopper and that will work as long as you don't need it to hold any pressure.

The gas dip tubes are too short. Did you cut yours?

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

@Hanna, what is that fitting you used for your thermowell. As you can see mine is ghetto, but working...

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

I bought a dip tube along with all the fittings you listed. The black washers were the wrong size but not a big deal. I cut the dip tube but it wont fit through the fittings. Now i need to order another one because I then cut a second tube from one of my other kegs. The top of the dip tube that won't fit has "Ears" which makes it not slide into the fitting.

 

[Hannabrew]

It'll fit you just have to tap it with a hammer a bit.

I ordered a weldless thermowell from brewhardware

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

I ordered a weldless thermowell from brewhardware

That's where I got mine too. I just bought the thermowell. Specifically I'm asking about the fittings you are using to attach it to the lid.

On a side note, I dry hopped this morning. Opened the lid, added hops then I connected a beer QD to my CO2 tank. I took that and connected it to the beer out post on the lid and turned on the gas for about a minute to hopefully purge any O2

 

[gromitdj]

That's where I got mine too. I just bought the thermowell. Specifically I'm asking about the fittings you are using to attach it to the lid.

On a side note, I dry hopped this morning. Opened the lid, added hops then I connected a beer QD to my CO2 tank. I took that and connected it to the beer out post on the lid and turned on the gas for about a minute to hopefully purge any O2

I am assuming that it is an 18" Thermowell and Weldless fitting that is sold @ brewhardware. You can also get a similar, single piece unit from Brewer's Hardware but the longest one they make is 12" and $24

 

[murphyslaw]

FWIW, if you have a carb cap with a nipple, you can take out the airlock and shove the carb cap in the bung.

I suppose that may introduce O2 in the split second it takes to switch.

 

[Hannabrew]

I am assuming that it is an 18" Thermowell and Weldless fitting that is sold @ brewhardware. You can also get a similar, single piece unit from Brewer's Hardware but the longest one they make is 12" and $24

Yep

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

I see you're using a rubber stopper and that will work as long as you don't need it to hold any pressure.

Actually this weekend i cold crashed that beer and as the temps dropped i continued to push CO2 into the fermenter. That rubber stopper held and at times the fermonster was a little swollen

 

[Hannabrew]

Actually this weekend i cold crashed that beer and as the temps dropped i continued to push CO2 into the fermenter. That rubber stopper held and at times the fermonster was a little swollen

It will hold some pressure but it's not worth the aggravation when it eventually fails you. When I ferment in my corny kegs I use a rubber stopper thermowell and any more than a couple PSI makes me nervous to due to some past unpleasant experiences

 

[gromitdj]

Actually this weekend i cold crashed that beer and as the temps dropped i continued to push CO2 into the fermenter. That rubber stopper held and at times the fermonster was a little swollen

It will hold some pressure but it's not worth the aggravation when it eventually fails you. When I ferment in my corny kegs I use a rubber stopper thermowell and any more than a couple PSI makes me nervous to due to some past unpleasant experiences

I use one of these regulators and a couple of appropriately sized barbs between my CO2 tank and the fermonster for cold crashing. I've never seen the fermonster swell up at all.

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

When I say it was swole a little i mean it was VERY little. More like a drum. Either way its going in the keg tonight

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

I did my transfer to keg last night and it went just OK. It transferred slower than i thought it would, no big deal here, i just kicked back and watched the rain. Right near the end (about 1 gallon left) it decided to stop transferring. I checked my spund valve to make sure that was working, it was. The next thing i did was remove the gas QD from the tank and put on a beer QD. I used this to blow CO2 in the keg draw tube and then into the floating draw on the fermenter in hopes that it would clear an obstruction. Both had bubbles flowing out easily. I put both QD's back where they belong to continue transfer and still no flow. thoughts?

 

[Hannabrew]

I've found elevating the fermenter as high as possible is very helpful when doing closed transfers. I put it on top of a bucket which sits on top of a 4 ft table. you could even lay the keg down on it's side if you really want to maximize gravity's contribution.

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

i'll give it a shot. Here is what I had set up.

 

[Dgallo]

@BrewMan13

 

[brewswithshoes]

I do a gravity powered closed transfer rather than a pressurized transfer. I start with a keg that is filled with CO2, but not under pressure.

The fermenter spigot will spray beer if it's under pressure, even when the spigot is closed. But with this method it works like a charm -- no problems with the spigot.

View attachment 619630

When I first started doing closed transfers I would fill the keg with CO2 by first filling it with StarSan, then pushing it out with bottled CO2. I've since learned that fermentation will produce enough volume of CO2 to effectively purge an empty keg, so I stopped using bottled gas for that and started capturing fermentation gas:

View attachment 619631

To prevent air from being pulled backward through the airlock (and into the keg) during cold crashing, I use a mylar balloon on top of the fermenter to capture some CO2. The hose to the balloon is clamped off for the first day or two of fermentation, to give time for the headspace in the fermenter to be purged by fermentation. After that the clamp is opened, there's no need to touch it again -- everything takes care of itself during cold crashing.

The first photo shows the balloon clamped off on the first day, and the second shows it when it's been allowed to fill.

View attachment 619632

@LittleRiver or others that do this. I'm going to start using a keg to capture fermentation gas. when hooking this up (like you have in second picture on post #5, would i want the fermentor to off gas into the out (black connection) post then the airlock would connect to the gas in (gray connection) on the keg?

I'm assuming I'd want the heavier CO2 gas coming into the keg from the liquid line at the bottom and pushing the lighter O2 out thru the gas in (shorter dip tube) at the top. looking at your pic it's reversed so wanted to make sure before i try this.

 

[LittleRiver]

...I'm assuming I'd want the heavier CO2 gas coming into the keg from the liquid line at the bottom and pushing the lighter O2 out thru the gas in (shorter dip tube) at the top. looking at your pic it's reversed so wanted to make sure before i try this.

That pic was taken when I was experimenting with this rig, I tried it both ways. I've been wondering if anyone was going to ask about that picture. What I settled on was having the fermentation gas come in the black/beer post, and the grey/gas post being used for the airlock. Like this:



The reason I came to that conclusion was not due to concerns about gases mixing. The gases are going to naturally diffuse and mix -- whatever you do. CO2 will not stay as a separate layer on the bottom of the keg.

If the keg is completely dry and empty, it should not matter which post is used.

But the inside of the keg will not be dry and completely empty. It will have been freshly washed and rinsed with StarSan. What I found was that even with a thorough draining, there were enough drops of moisture to pool into the bottom of the keg and cover the end of the long (beer) dip tube. When I had fermentation gas going in through the grey/gas post, the gas would try to push that liquid up the long dip tube. That made enough back pressure to pop open the lid of my Big Mouth Bubbler fermenter (which is notorious for having a slippery lid when it is wet with StarSan).

When the gas comes in through the black/beer post, it just bubbles through that small amount of liquid and there are no back pressure issues, so that's the way to go.