Pressurized Closed Loop Corny Keg Fermenting

[cheesebach]

For those of you using the floating dip tubes in the FV - are you still able to do a closed gravity-fed transfer to the SV? Or do you need to use CO2 to apply pressure to the FV to keep the transfer going? I’m wondering whether the screen on the floating dip tubes to keep out dry hops would restrict flow enough that the gravity fed transfer wouldn’t work.

Also, how easy is it to clean all the the yeast and hop material out of the nooks and crannies on these, since they can’t really be submerged and soaked in PBW to clean? I bought one of the CBD floating dip tubes with the dry hop screen awhile ago, but haven’t tried it yet in the FV because of some of these concerns.

 

[TimmyWit]

For those of you using the floating dip tubes in the FV - are you still able to do a closed gravity-fed transfer to the SV? Or do you need to use CO2 to apply pressure to the FV to keep the transfer going? I’m wondering whether the screen on the floating dip tubes to keep out dry hops would restrict flow enough that the gravity fed transfer wouldn’t work.

Also, how easy is it to clean all the the yeast and hop material out of the nooks and crannies on these, since they can’t really be submerged and soaked in PBW to clean? I bought one of the CBD floating dip tubes with the dry hop screen awhile ago, but haven’t tried it yet in the FV because of some of these concerns.

I haven't tried a transfer with the closed loop method yet but I did push with Co2 while using the spunding valve to apply counter-pressure. It's pretty close to the same thing and I think the closed loop transfer would work fine.

I think it's important to crash before you transfer even if you have the screen on. I took some samples prior to crashing because I was serving at a festival and was considering serving straight from the FV. But, since I was getting a few floaty bits, I crashed first then transferred. I didn't want to risk stirring anything up during transport.

CBDS isn't hard to clean. Just a good wipe-down with a PBW and a soft cloth. After I reassemble the keg, I fill it to the brim with sanitizer then put the lid on so that CBDS gets submerged in sanitizer.

Kinda off topic but along the lines of cleaning, Intertap makes something called a ball lock spout that makes light work out of cleaning the liquid jumper. If you have a homemade draft setup (made from a pump sprayer), attach that to one end and put that ball lock spout on the other end. Pump your sanitizer of choice through and you're done.

 

[hezagenius]

For those of you using the floating dip tubes in the FV - are you still able to do a closed gravity-fed transfer to the SV? Or do you need to use CO2 to apply pressure to the FV to keep the transfer going? I’m wondering whether the screen on the floating dip tubes to keep out dry hops would restrict flow enough that the gravity fed transfer wouldn’t work.

Also, how easy is it to clean all the the yeast and hop material out of the nooks and crannies on these, since they can’t really be submerged and soaked in PBW to clean? I bought one of the CBD floating dip tubes with the dry hop screen awhile ago, but haven’t tried it yet in the FV because of some of these concerns.

The screen shouldn't cause any issues. I've done many closed pressurized transfers with screens on both the FV and the SV side and have never had a problem with the flow. If you crash the beer first, then transfer, it will be more clear, but I've done it both ways with no issues.

The CB cleans off really easy. Just rinse it off with water and clean as normal with PBW like any other metal pieces you have. For the float itself, swish it around every so often in the PBW solution. That's about all you can do unless you put it in a container to keep it submerged.

 

[stickyfinger]

i have been trying the clear beer draught system in a primary keg for the first time. so far i am very pleased. i dry hopped with 8 oz of loose pellets and it just shoots out gravity/tasting samples with no problem. i also have been thinking they would work great for throwing a keg in the car to take to an event without getting sediment into the serving line.

 

[bg1414]

If this has been asked previously I apologize.

In lieu of filling the SV & purging w/ CO2 tank, Would this process work for DOUBLE dryhop IPAs?

1.) sanitize the SV similar to FV w/ NO water purge
2.) attach the IN from the FV to the OUT of the SV, and attach a blowoff tube to the OUT of SV - place Dryhop#2 "commando" in SV at beginning of fermentation
3.). OVer the course of the first three of fermentation the CO2 from primarY FV would continually purge the SV (assumption - is this right?)
4.) After 72 hrs (6-10pts before FG) - add Dryhop 1 to FV. Spund SV
5.) Allow pressure to build to ~15psi in SV, seal then move spund FV to finish naturally carbing beer
6.) After FG, chill to 38 to "crash" for a couple days.
7.) Transfer from FV to purged / pressurized / cold SV that contains Dryhop 2 - SLOWLY at first so the initial nucleation from the natural carb is contained. (Transfer cold & pressure in SV is key) After initial foaming proceed transfer
8.). Allow beer to free rise to room temp on a couple days to extract Dryhop 2 - then chill again & serve.


Thoughts?

I'm interested in this method as well. Even without the dryhop 2 I'm wondering if it's ok to transfer a fully carbonated beer cold/slowly or will it create enough O2 to oxidize the beer? Thoughts?

 

[LittlejohnBrew]

I'm interested in this method as well. Even without the dryhop 2 I'm wondering if it's ok to transfer a fully carbonated beer cold/slowly or will it create enough O2 to oxidize the beer? Thoughts?

I've transferred warm fully carbed or close to it with a couple brews now and havent had any issues yet. Maybe it has been proven elsewhere, but i don't see how you pick up any oxygen transfering this way. My transfer occurs at 20-30 psig and the flow is so slow no way a venturi is being created and causing vacuum at fittings. I also purge my tubing prior to connecting the kegs together. Can't think of any other sources of oxygen pickup?

 

[stickyfinger]

That batch lasted about a month and a half before it kicked. It was just as good, if not better, towards the end of that time. No perceivable off flavors sitting on the yeast and gunk for that long.

This is definitely my new standard process.

I'm serving from the primary with an NEIPA I just did. It's been in the kegerator for about a week now. It tastes amazing. I love the CBDS! One interesting thing of note is that the pours are quite clear, much clearer than I would expect from an NEIPA at this point. I guess the yeast and hop particles have dropped below the level of the CBDS intake. I've never had an IPA with so much pungent hop flavor that is so clear. The clarity is equivalent to a very hazy west coast IPA or maybe a slightly warmed up Alchemist IPA. I used WLP095. Anyway, if this is a success after serving for like a month, I might just start doing this from now on. I did one half of my batch using the stainless dip tube filter with a rubber bung in the top (the Janish filter setup) and one half with the CBDS. The CBDS never clogged, but I somehow clogged the Janish setup. I just ordered 3 more CBDSs!

 

[schematix]

OP here. Hate to break it to you guys, but I’m moving on from corny fermenting. It’s been a great run though and no regrets.

 

[TimmyWit]

OP here. Hate to break it to you guys, but I’m moving on from corny fermenting. It’s been a great run though and no regrets.

View attachment 573800

Congrats! You went all out glycol + conical correct? I'm sitting here right now dreaming of a glycol unit as I struggle to get to pitching temps even with a pre-chiller, bags of ice & CFC.

That conical looks super sweet! Well done!

 

[schematix]

Congrats! You went all out glycol + conical correct? I'm sitting here right now dreaming of a glycol unit as I struggle to get to pitching temps even with a pre-chiller, bags of ice & CFC.

That conical looks super sweet! Well done!

Yep. Chiller shipped today. Will be here day after tomorrow and that'll complete the upgrade.

 

[Sadu]

Sweet rig @schematix
Gotta say I'm pretty happy with corny keg fermentors but I'd switch to that if I could.

Question for you though. You are always talking about transferring with a few points to go so the yeast are active and can mop up O2. I don't typically do this, I like to crash cool a few days after FG then closed transfer to the serving keg on my schedule. I feel this results in cleaner beer, and I like the idea of giving yeast more time in primary.

What possible avenues are there for oxidation if...
- I'm transferring mostly-carbed beer from a pressurised fermenting keg
- The serving keg has been properly purged (quality starsan purge then spunded from the fermentation)
- Both lines have been purged prior to transfer (blowing CO2 from the tank through for several seconds)
- I also fill my kegs until there is beer coming out the gas line and PRV, then I pour a pint to celebrate and that provides headspace necessary for finishing the carbonation.

Appreciate you know your stuff in this area, so I'd like to ask your opinion on skipping the 'transfer with a few points left' part if everything else is properly in order. It's not a huge deal to add a couple of oz of sugar solution at transfer time but it's one more step and I'm not sure why it would be necessary. Cheers.

 

[schematix]

Sweet rig @schematix
Gotta say I'm pretty happy with corny keg fermentors but I'd switch to that if I could.

Question for you though. You are always talking about transferring with a few points to go so the yeast are active and can mop up O2. I don't typically do this, I like to crash cool a few days after FG then closed transfer to the serving keg on my schedule. I feel this results in cleaner beer, and I like the idea of giving yeast more time in primary.

What possible avenues are there for oxidation if...
- I'm transferring mostly-carbed beer from a pressurised fermenting keg
- The serving keg has been properly purged (quality starsan purge then spunded from the fermentation)
- Both lines have been purged prior to transfer (blowing CO2 from the tank through for several seconds)
- I also fill my kegs until there is beer coming out the gas line and PRV, then I pour a pint to celebrate and that provides headspace necessary for finishing the carbonation.

Appreciate you know your stuff in this area, so I'd like to ask your opinion on skipping the 'transfer with a few points left' part if everything else is properly in order. It's not a huge deal to add a couple of oz of sugar solution at transfer time but it's one more step and I'm not sure why it would be necessary. Cheers.

I am not aware of an easier method than transferring with extract remaining.

If clarity is the concern then there are some solutions involving floating dip tubes.

As far as more time in primary, that is something i try to avoid entirely. I get it out as soon as possible.

 

[cheesebach]

I'm serving from the primary with an NEIPA I just did. It's been in the kegerator for about a week now. It tastes amazing. I love the CBDS! One interesting thing of note is that the pours are quite clear, much clearer than I would expect from an NEIPA at this point. I guess the yeast and hop particles have dropped below the level of the CBDS intake. I've never had an IPA with so much pungent hop flavor that is so clear. The clarity is equivalent to a very hazy west coast IPA or maybe a slightly warmed up Alchemist IPA. I used WLP095. Anyway, if this is a success after serving for like a month, I might just start doing this from now on. I did one half of my batch using the stainless dip tube filter with a rubber bung in the top (the Janish filter setup) and one half with the CBDS. The CBDS never clogged, but I somehow clogged the Janish setup. I just ordered 3 more CBDSs!

My CBDS has been sitting around unused for the most part since I bought it, but these success stories of serving heavily hopped NEIPA right out of the primary will probably have me giving it a try on my next batch this week.

Regarding the Janis setup that clogged - is your liquid dip tube trimmed or is it sitting close to the bottom of the keg and pressed against the bottom of the filter? I’m not sure how that could possibly clog as long as there’s a little space between the bottom of the dip tube and the bottom of the filter. I think the Janish blog post mentioned this scenario as a possible source of clogs.

 

[stickyfinger]

I trimmed my tube. I think schmutz was getting in around the the seal at the top or something. It clogged completely and then on another batch I tried to rack to a purged keg using it and it broke siphon. It's not worth the fuss at this point. I can use it for beers with not much more than yeast in them though. I used it to rack IPAs from my carboy a long while ago, and it worked well once, but then broke siphon when it sucked all of the liquid out from the inside of the filter and didn't refill fast enough.

 

[chieftain]

So here's my dilemma: I've had a batch fermenting away since Saturday, and it is now around 1.016. Added my dry hop last night. I have to go out of town this Friday for a week, so I see 2 options: 1. Let the fermentation ride until I get back, leaving the dry hop in for 9 days, and then I'd need to prime with sugar prior to racking. Or 2. Transfer now, to take advantage of the few remaining points left to carb up in the keg.

I'm leaning toward 2, but I'm also not sure if it will result in over carbonating since I won't be around to monitor it (and my spunding valve only goes to 15psi).

Chances are good that I'm over thinking this, but welcome any feedback folks may have.

 

[FunkedOut]

Option 2.

Set your valve to 15psi and set the temp to where you get the carbonation you want, using a CO2 volumes chart.

 

[chieftain]

Option 2.

Set your valve to 15psi and set the temp to where you get the carbonation you want, using a CO2 volumes chart.

Appreciate the feedback. I've decided to let it ferment another day or so, and then drop it down to condition around 50 or so while I'm out of town. There's just so much yeast and hop material floating around that I had a hard time getting a hydrometer reading from the samples I've pulled this evening, and I don't have a keg filter or clear beer system at the ready. Bummer.

 

[cheesebach]

I trimmed my tube. I think schmutz was getting in around the the seal at the top or something. It clogged completely and then on another batch I tried to rack to a purged keg using it and it broke siphon. It's not worth the fuss at this point. I can use it for beers with not much more than yeast in them though. I used it to rack IPAs from my carboy a long while ago, and it worked well once, but then broke siphon when it sucked all of the liquid out from the inside of the filter and didn't refill fast enough.

I wonder how that ended up clogging - I’d probably give up on it after that too. It’s worked like a charm for me the 4 times I’ve tried it. I bought some straight dip tubes to use with it that sit about 1” from the bottom of the keg. I haven’t tried serving from the primary using it, but I’m able to closed transfer from primary keg to serving keg just using gravity without losing siphon. I’d guess serving from primary should be even easier, since more hop material would drop out while it was kept cold in the kegerator.

My main concern with using the Janish screens for serving from the primary would be how well it could keep out the yeast surrounding the screen at the bottom of the keg. I can’t imagine it being enough to clog anything, but it’s probably not as good as a floating dip tube for avoiding it.

 

[bg1414]

So i didn't cut my gas tube and filled a little high. Some hop gunk reached the SV inlet and apparently clogged some. It looked like CO2 was still getting in, but I didn't think anything of it until last night when I went to open the FV and noticed a **** ton of CO2 trapped in there. A bit of a mess getting it open and dry hopping. It's spunding now before crash cooling in a few days and transferring to SV. I'm not sure what the pressure was as i was scared to put the spunding on and get it clogged. Right now it says 15 psi after it degassed for about 5 minutes when dry hopping. Not ideal, but lesson learned. Hopefully no off flavors from that high of a pressure ferment. We shall see next week when I try it.

 

[leesmith]

OP here. Hate to break it to you guys, but I’m moving on from corny fermenting. It’s been a great run though and no regrets.

View attachment 573800

Looks great! What brand is that?

 

[schematix]

Looks great! What brand is that?

Stout.

Really nice piece. Clean smooth welds and polished to nearly mirror finish.

 

[leesmith]

OP here. Hate to break it to you guys, but I’m moving on from corny fermenting. It’s been a great run though and no regrets.

View attachment 573800

Schematix would you mind sharing what your process for fermenting in the conical will be? How you’ll limit o2....dry hop.....transfer.

 

[schematix]

Schematix would you mind sharing what your process for fermenting in the conical will be? How you’ll limit o2....dry hop.....transfer.

Actually not terribly dissimilar from the corny kegs. I bought Triclamp to keg fittings for gas and liquid.

I’m gonna do a 2nd chill test cycle this afternoon. I’ll hook up the keg connections to show what the plan is and take pictures.

 

[schematix]

No pictures today. The brand new penguin chiller decided to drain its glycol out overnight all over my floor.

*%%]#{%^{*!!!

Edit: I believe i fixed the assembly flaw in the chiller (cord grip seal wasn't made) and so there may still be pictures yet today.

 

[schematix]

Schematix would you mind sharing what your process for fermenting in the conical will be? How you’ll limit o2....dry hop.....transfer.

Can’t do a full set of pics but hopefully these give the idea...

The top of the fermenter has a 3" TC port. I bought a 3" to 1.5" offset adapter, and a 1.5" TC to GAS post....

For racking i got a 1.5" TC to 1/4" MFL. Going to screw on the liquid line with a liquid QD on other end.

For dry hopping the fermenter comes with this 3" TC adapter for blow off and a hook to hang a hop bag. I'll probably try to just suspend a nylon bag from the hook.

Lastly to do CO2 purges i'm going to connect the top of the fermenter (gas) to the liquid port of the first keg, then jumper gas-liquid to each keg until the end, which will get a spund valve set really low, probably like 1 psi. So they will purge in series.

 

[duelerx]

Can’t do a full set of pics but hopefully these give the idea...

The top of the fermenter has a 3" TC port. I bought a 3" to 1.5" offset adapter, and a 1.5" TC to GAS post....
View attachment 575367

For racking i got a 1.5" TC to 1/4" MFL. Going to screw on the liquid line with a liquid post on other end.
View attachment 575368

For dry hopping the fermenter comes with this 3" TC adapter for blow off and a hook to hang a hop bag. I'll probably try to just suspend a nylon bag from the hook.

View attachment 575369

Lastly to do CO2 purges i'm going to connect the top of the fermenter (gas) to the liquid port of the first keg, then jumper gas-liquid to each keg until the end, which will get a spund valve set really low, probably like 1 psi. So they will purge in series.

View attachment 575370

Really nice setup, hope you can update us how things work out doing dry hopping!.

 

[leesmith]

Can’t do a full set of pics but hopefully these give the idea...

The top of the fermenter has a 3" TC port. I bought a 3" to 1.5" offset adapter, and a 1.5" TC to GAS post....
View attachment 575367

For racking i got a 1.5" TC to 1/4" MFL. Going to screw on the liquid line with a liquid post on other end.
View attachment 575368

For dry hopping the fermenter comes with this 3" TC adapter for blow off and a hook to hang a hop bag. I'll probably try to just suspend a nylon bag from the hook.

View attachment 575369

Lastly to do CO2 purges i'm going to connect the top of the fermenter (gas) to the liquid port of the first keg, then jumper gas-liquid to each keg until the end, which will get a spund valve set really low, probably like 1 psi. So they will purge in series.

View attachment 575370

Thank you for sharing! Looking forward to hearing how the beer your gonna brew comes out.

 

[cheesebach]

So I brewed a NEIPA last weekend with the plan of testing out fermenting and serving in the same keg using the CBDS floating dip tube that I bought awhile back and never got much use out of. Unfortunately, I also had the thought that saving half my dry hop charge for after fermentation finished (and naturally carbonated) would help to seal in even more of the hop aroma goodness. BAD IDEA.

There's 4.25 gallons of beer in my keg and even doing a slow, gentle release of pressure results in foam reaching the top of the keg before I even vent all the gas to pop the lid. I tried dropping the temperature down to 55F in the hope that there would be less pressure in the keg and less foaming, but I tried again and it's the same situation. I didn't expect anywhere near this much foaming just from venting the pressure - I knew there was going to be some after the hops went in, but figured I could probably get the lid back on before the foam volcano reached the top. Turn out I can't even get the lid off without the volcanic eruption.

I think my plan for now is to let everything settle down again overnight and get another keg ready with the Janish dip tube screen, purge it, add the dry hops to that empty/purged keg, and then hope I can closed transfer into it without clogging the CBDS on the way out or creating a new foam volcano from the dry hop in the new keg on their way in.

Does it sound like this would work? Will keeping pressure on the serving keg be enough to keep the dry hops from causing the beer to foam up and block the transfer on the way into the serving keg? Or does anyone have any other suggestions for me to try that they think would be a better solution?

 

[stickyfinger]

So I brewed a NEIPA last weekend with the plan of testing out fermenting and serving in the same keg using the CBDS floating dip tube that I bought awhile back and never got much use out of. Unfortunately, I also had the thought that saving half my dry hop charge for after fermentation finished (and naturally carbonated) would help to seal in even more of the hop aroma goodness. BAD IDEA.

There's 4.25 gallons of beer in my keg and even doing a slow, gentle release of pressure results in foam reaching the top of the keg before I even vent all the gas to pop the lid. I tried dropping the temperature down to 55F in the hope that there would be less pressure in the keg and less foaming, but I tried again and it's the same situation. I didn't expect anywhere near this much foaming just from venting the pressure - I knew there was going to be some after the hops went in, but figured I could probably get the lid back on before the foam volcano reached the top. Turn out I can't even get the lid off without the volcanic eruption.

I think my plan for now is to let everything settle down again overnight and get another keg ready with the Janish dip tube screen, purge it, add the dry hops to that empty/purged keg, and then hope I can closed transfer into it without clogging the CBDS on the way out or creating a new foam volcano from the dry hop in the new keg on their way in.

Does it sound like this would work? Will keeping pressure on the serving keg be enough to keep the dry hops from causing the beer to foam up and block the transfer on the way into the serving keg? Or does anyone have any other suggestions for me to try that they think would be a better solution?

I’ve never transferred an entire keg of warm beer with the CBDS. It’s worth a try. I’d move the keg up onto a counter and let it rest at least an hour or more and don’t move after that to make sure any hops that are in suspension move toward the bottom or stay floating on top to reduce the likelihood of clogging the CBDS filter.

 

[Veets]

I’ve never transferred an entire keg of warm beer with the CBDS. It’s worth a try. I’d move the keg up onto a counter and let it rest at least an hour or more and don’t move after that to make sure any hops that are in suspension move toward the bottom or stay floating on top to reduce the likelihood of clogging the CBDS filter.

Why not chill it way down and wait for everything to settle? There will be less foam at low temperature, and then you can check your poppet for hop debris. You might be able to blow out any residual debris in the line after that, and then pour clear beer afterwards.

Does your CBDS have the filter screen that's recommended for use when dry hopping?