Pressure Transfers and Turbulence In Beer

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bbearbrew

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HI,
Long time listener, first time caller.
I have begun utilizing pressure transfers to secondary and keg. I purge the receiving vessel and push the wort/beer with Co2. I noticed a lot of turbulence in the line. Anyone see issue with that? It can't be oxidation given that it is being pushed with Co2.
Any other concerns I should be aware of?
I'll hang up and listen to the answers.
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SanPancho

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If your hose connections aren’t tight you can suck in air. Venturi effect.

if you use too much pressure you can cause co2 to break out when it hits a lower pressure environment. if Beer is under pressure or carbed you need back pressure in your receiving vessel to keep the gas in solution.
hard to say without more specifics
 
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bbearbrew

bbearbrew

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If your hose connections aren’t tight you can suck in air. Venturi effect.

if you use too much pressure you can cause co2 to break out when it hits a lower pressure environment. if Beer is under pressure or carbed you need back pressure in your receiving vessel to keep the gas in solution.
hard to say without more specifics
@SanPancho , Thanks for the response.
I think your point abt connections may be it.
The setup I am using entails use of Carboy cap, stainless steel racking cane and some flare fittings (see pic).
Beer is clear running thru tubing between racking cane and flare fittings; turbulence occurs after the fittings.
I only hand tighten pretty tight (i.e. no leaks). But if it is puling air in it wouldn't have much chance to leak out I guess.
Next time I'll use a wrench and see it that makes a difference.
Forced Transfer.jpg
 

Beholder

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@SanPancho , Thanks for the response.
I think your point abt connections may be it.
The setup I am using entails use of Carboy cap, stainless steel racking cane and some flare fittings (see pic).
Beer is clear running thru tubing between racking cane and flare fittings; turbulence occurs after the fittings.
I only hand tighten pretty tight (i.e. no leaks). But if it is puling air in it wouldn't have much chance to leak out I guess.
Next time I'll use a wrench and see it that makes a difference.
View attachment 678962
It’s also important to get all air pushed out of the tubing. With small to big area changes, the air can stay trapped behind the rearward facing step and not get filled with fluid (sure way to oxygenate!) Foolproof method is to prime the line with sanitizer (if small) and not blow it out before transfer. For flexible lines, you can also flex them to push the trapped air around to fill in the space with the moving fluid.
 

SanPancho

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definitely the less diameter changes the better, and also make sure to purge the hoses as best you can. i cant really tell from photo, but some flare fittings require the small flare washers to make a seal. no matter how hard you thread them they'll leak a bit. not sure which kind you've got there but might be worth a look.
 
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bbearbrew

bbearbrew

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Thanks for all the info - I will check to ensure all connections are tight.
My question, though was not so much about the turbelence but the fact that since I've purged the keg, hose with Co2 prior to the transfer and am using Co2 to push the beer, is that an issue?
Oxidation should not be a concern as there is nothing (everything has been purged).
Thanks,
 

Beholder

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Thanks for all the info - I will check to ensure all connections are tight.
My question, though was not so much about the turbelence but the fact that since I've purged the keg, hose with Co2 prior to the transfer and am using Co2 to push the beer, is that an issue?
Oxidation should not be a concern as there is nothing (everything has been purged).
Thanks,
A thorough CO2 purge keeps you safe against oxidation, so the only issue with excessive turbulence is driving the CO2 out of solution that can create excessive foaming. When I close transfer, I do so with pressure in the receiving keg moderated with a spunding valve and set my sending pressure accordingly. Since I push from a unitank, I set sending to 15 psi and receiving to 10 psi with the benefit that the keg is set to serving pressure. 5 psi is a good balance between speed and minimum foaming. Since it looks like you don’t have the flexibility for high pressures, I would keep the receiving pressure very low (~1 psi) and the sending to a couple psi higher - this will help maintain a consistent flow and minimize foaming.
 

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