Preparing For First Brew -- Final Questions!

[kyoun1e]

Folks,

Thanks for all the help on previous questions. I think I have a pretty firm grip on the brew process and sanitization. As I target this weekend for my first brew, I have a final list of questions that keep popping into my head:

1. Adding Malt After Flameout

Many of you have indicated that you should add malt after the boil so the brew doesn't get too dark and to avoid a too sugary brew. My question is this: If you shut down the boil, then add the malt, aren't you slowing down the process to get the wort cool fast?

2. Cooling Wort -- Ideal Time

What amount of time do you shoot for to get to 60 F? Just looking for a goal here.

3. Stir Wort While Cooling? Lid off while Cooling?

Getting mixed messages here. On one hand, stirring wort during cooling could help with accelerating cooling, but doesn't that introduce sanitization risk? Couldn't microbes get in there with the lid off?

4. Topping Off Wort to 5 Gallons

What's the better approach -- Pouring the wort in first? Or pouring in 2.5 gallons of water first into the Carboy? Does it matter? What's best for aeration?

I'm using a pot for the brew and a carboy to ferment. I could also introduce a sanitized bucket.


5. Adding Yeast

I'm using a Carboy and a funnel. Silly question...assume using the funnel (if sanitized) is fine.

6. Starsan in Airlock -- Assume filling 50% here is the way to go vs. water.

7. Fermenting Temperature

* While it was 90 this week in my basement it's pretty clear that the AC in my house is strong. I don't think it's going to be a problem keeping it cool down there. Question: Is it possible to make it TOO cool?
* Let's say the carboy strip thermometer malfunctions. What would you use as a backup? You don't want to stick anything in the fermenter right? Would you just stick a thermometer on the outside of the carboy?

8. Airlock On/Off For Gravity Readings

Assume taking this on and off every few days doesn't increase any fermenting risk.

Again, sorry for the questions. Really want to do this right.

Thanks.

 

[Nokie]

1. You could add your LME at flame out, I usually waited for about 10 minutes left in the boil, shut heat off, add LME and stir it real good while adding. Then boil the last 10 mins.

2. Cooling- you didn't mention how you planned on cooling, you have an immersion cooler of just an ice bath? You just want to try and get under 100 quick as possible by whatever means you have. With an immersion chiller and some ice I can get to 60 in about 30-45 mins.

3. Stirring- Lid off and stirring does help the cooling. If you use a metal spoon just keep it in your pot from flame out until you're down to your temp. You don't need a vigorous stir. Just enough to get things moving. And if you stir gently around the side of your pot then you're whirlpooling and that'll help when you transfer to your fermenter. If you don't have a metal spoon then just keep starsan close by and clean your spoon before stirring

4. Topping off- you can top off either way. It's all going to mix together when you aerate anyways. If it's a hot day and you're having trouble cooling to your pitching rate then use cold water to top off and your temp will come down

5. If you're not rehydrating or making a starter(they're a little easier to pour in your carboy) then cut the corner of your yeast packet and carefully pour in. A sanitized funnel will work put it would have to be dry.

6. Starsan or vodka in your airlock. So anything that gets sucked back in is sterile.

7. If your temp swings too much or goes higher than wanted making a swamp cooler works great. Even if the room temp is 70 the temp in your carboy will hit at least 75 while fermenting. Adding ice bottles in a swamp cooler will drop the temps and once it's done climbing it'll help keep temps stable.
Without a thermowell in your carboy it's hard to get and exact temp inside.
8. When you take a temp or reading just pull your bung and airlock off. Spray or dip your bung before you replace it.

 

[kyoun1e]

1. You could add your LME at flame out, I usually waited for about 10 minutes left in the boil, shut heat off, add LME and stir it real good while adding. Then boil the last 10 mins.

2. Cooling- you didn't mention how you planned on cooling, you have an immersion cooler of just an ice bath? You just want to try and get under 100 quick as possible by whatever means you have. With an immersion chiller and some ice I can get to 60 in about 30-45 mins.

I'm going to stick the pot in my sink with cold water, cool to 100, then add the ice to accelerate. I'm not going to get fancy with my first brew.
I've spent enough money!

3. Stirring- Lid off and stirring does help the cooling. If you use a metal spoon just keep it in your pot from flame out until you're down to your temp. You don't need a vigorous stir. Just enough to get things moving. And if you stir gently around the side of your pot then you're whirlpooling and that'll help when you transfer to your fermenter. If you don't have a metal spoon then just keep starsan close by and clean your spoon before stirring

Ah, like the idea of keeping the spoon in there. Done.

4. Topping off- you can top off either way. It's all going to mix together when you aerate anyways. If it's a hot day and you're having trouble cooling to your pitching rate then use cold water to top off and your temp will come down

Think I'm going to pour from the pot, to a sanitized bucket, then pour into the funnel/carboy, and then dump 2.5 gallons of distilled water in there. Will then shake the carboy. Yeah, it's heavy, but I'm pretty capable. Sound good?

5. If you're not rehydrating or making a starter(they're a little easier to pour in your carboy) then cut the corner of your yeast packet and carefully pour in. A sanitized funnel will work put it would have to be dry.

I could see this being tricky. Getting the funnel perfectly dry could be an issue. Maybe just cut the corner like you say and dump right into the carboy.

Here's another question: Should I have a "backup yeast" just in case?
Feel like the yeast step is pretty damn critical. I only have one packet right now.

6. Starsan or vodka in your airlock. So anything that gets sucked back in is sterile.

7. If your temp swings too much or goes higher than wanted making a swamp cooler works great. Even if the room temp is 70 the temp in your carboy will hit at least 75 while fermenting. Adding ice bottles in a swamp cooler will drop the temps and once it's done climbing it'll help keep temps stable.
Without a thermowell in your carboy it's hard to get and exact temp inside.

Is there a resource around for making a swamp cooler? I have a large plastic bucket that I was planning on putting the carboy in and surrounding with water/ice as necessary. Have to read up on this. Don't quite get how this swamp cooler keeps things at a constant temp.

8. When you take a temp or reading just pull your bung and airlock off. Spray or dip your bung before you replace it.

Good call on spraying the bung.

And super dumb question of the day...it looks like my carboy has a combined bung/airlock. I can't take one off without taking off the other.
Standard right?

Thanks!

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

First I know this is your first brew and you want it to be perfect, but it probably won't be and still you'll love it, your "do it the right way" will evolve as you brew and will be different than my idea of that or the next guys idea of that. That said I'll quickly answer your questions for my "right way".

1. Put it in late in the boil.
2. 1/2 hour.
3. Don't stir though stirring is not so much a sanitation issue.
4. Wort first then water. So you can top off to the level you want.
5. Yes
6. Vodka in air lock
7. Under 60 is probably too cool.
8. Don't worry about ongoing hydrometer readings. The beer will tell you when it's really done.

 

[GoeHaarden]

Just adding to what has been said...

1. Adding the DME. When I did extract, I'd steep my specialty grain at ~150-160 for 10-30 minutes, then bring that to a boil. Turn off the flame, add the extract, stir very well. Then boil like you would, adding hops and what else at their scheduled times.

2. Cooling. To reiterate what has already been stated. As fast as possible. This helps facilitate cold break, allowing proteins to coagulate and stay in the kettle. However, this is less of an issue in extract brewing unless you steep a lot of specialty grains. I believe a lot of this is already removed in the dehydrating process when extract is produced, but I could be wrong.

3. Stirring. It does help cool, but I think the main benefit is to help make a cone of cold break material in the center of your kettle. Clearer wort. Essentially like a true whirlpool.

4. Topping off. Doesn't matter too much here, just make sure you have cooled enough. Don't melt your fermenter if it's plastic. Make sure you use pre-boiled (cooled) water or distilled. Don't want to add any bugs...

5. If you're using dry yeast, it is always good practice to rehydrate prior to pitching. I believe you lose roughly half of the cells by not rehydrating. It's simple. When you're waiting for your wort to chill. Simply boil some water in the microwave. Cover. Let it chill to 100F. You could put it in an ice bath to make it go quicker. Put the yeast in when temp is between 100-90F. Let it sit for 20 minutes. Stir. Let sit for another 20 minutes. Use a sanitized funnel and pitch...

6. To prevent any suck back I usually fill it with sanitizer after I put it in place...

7. Best investment you'll make is fermentation temp control...

8. I think you answered your own question here. Can't really get the wort out (unless you have a spigot) if you don't remove the airlock or lid...just spray with sanitizer.

 

[GoeHaarden]

Good call on spraying the bung.

And super dumb question of the day...it looks like my carboy has a combined bung/airlock. I can't take one off without taking off the other.
Standard right?

Thanks!

Yes.

 

[Nokie]

I'm sure there's something out there about making a swamp cooler but it's pretty simple. Just use a tote or plastic bin and put about 5-6 inches of water in it. With your carboy in the tote you can add frozen water bottles in it to get it to the temp you want. I usually add one ice bottle in the morning and it'll hold your temp all day.
I also take a t-shirt and dip it it the water and put it over your carboy with the airlock coming out of the neck hole of the shirt. The evaporation of the water from the shirt will cool your carboy

 

[kyoun1e]

I'm sure there's something out there about making a swamp cooler but it's pretty simple. Just use a tote or plastic bin and put about 5-6 inches of water in it. With your carboy in the tote you can add frozen water bottles in it to get it to the temp you want. I usually add one ice bottle in the morning and it'll hold your temp all day.
I also take a t-shirt and dip it it the water and put it over your carboy with the airlock coming out of the neck hole of the shirt. The evaporation of the water from the shirt will cool your carboy

Love the t-shirt idea!

Just searched through some threads on swamp coolers. Seems pretty basic. I have a plastic tub that's about as tall as the carboy. I'll fill with cool water, add ice if necessary, definitely use the t-shirt...and a fan if necessary.

Still don't get what temperature I'm measuring. Is it the water? The carboy? Both? I just ordered a cheapy floating thermometer off of amazon and figured I'd just stick it in the water. I'm guessing the carboy strip thermometer could be covered.

 

[Nokie]

If you have the stick on thermometer that's what you'll have to go by for now.
I'd only add 5-6 inches of water. It'll take a day or so to figure out how much ice you'll need but with a frozen bottle and wet t-shirt I can stay around 65- 66

 

[kh54s10]

I didn't read the other responses but here are my $.02:

Folks,


1. Adding Malt After Flameout

Many of you have indicated that you should add malt after the boil so the brew doesn't get too dark and to avoid a too sugary brew. My question is this: If you shut down the boil, then add the malt, aren't you slowing down the process to get the wort cool fast?


You want to cool fast but it is not critical, many do no chill brewing. Just letting it cool overnight.


2. Cooling Wort -- Ideal Time

What amount of time do you shoot for to get to 60 F? Just looking for a goal here.

Again pretty fast is common, but anywhere from 5 minutes to 12 hours.....

3. Stir Wort While Cooling? Lid off while Cooling?

I use an immersion chiller so there is no lid. A lid will make it take longer. Make sure your area is not dusty or if outside no leaves or bugs falling into the wort.

Getting mixed messages here. On one hand, stirring wort during cooling could help with accelerating cooling, but doesn't that introduce sanitization risk? Couldn't microbes get in there with the lid off?


Stir it! It will cool much faster. See above about the microbes. The yeast will take care of them unless you are in a really dirty environment.

4. Topping Off Wort to 5 Gallons

What's the better approach -- Pouring the wort in first? Or pouring in 2.5 gallons of water first into the Carboy? Does it matter? What's best for aeration?

I always put the wort into the fermenter then added the water. Slosh all you want. Then shake the fermenter for 5-10 minutes to aerate the wort.

I'm using a pot for the brew and a carboy to ferment. I could also introduce a sanitized bucket.

Either one.


5. Adding Yeast

I'm using a Carboy and a funnel. Silly question...assume using the funnel (if sanitized) is fine.

That is good. You can sprinkle dry yeast, but for better results, Rehydrate dry yeast, with liquid yeast make a starter.

6. Starsan in Airlock -- Assume filling 50% here is the way to go vs. water.

There are fill marks on the airlock. Starsan or vodka.

7. Fermenting Temperature

* While it was 90 this week in my basement it's pretty clear that the AC in my house is strong. I don't think it's going to be a problem keeping it cool down there. Question: Is it possible to make it TOO cool?
* Let's say the carboy strip thermometer malfunctions. What would you use as a backup? You don't want to stick anything in the fermenter right? Would you just stick a thermometer on the outside of the carboy?


Mid sixties WORT TEMPERATURE. Fermentation creates heat, look up swamp cooler. A sanitized thermometer is fine to put into the beer.

8. Airlock On/Off For Gravity Readings

Assume taking this on and off every few days doesn't increase any fermenting risk.

Don't take any gravity readings for a couple of weeks. I go 14 days. The less you mess with it the better. On day 14 take a reading, on day 16 take another, if they are the same bottle the beer. If still dropping wait another couple of days.

Again, sorry for the questions. Really want to do this right.

Thanks.

Relax, you have things mostly right. It is a harder to mess up a beer than most new brewers think. Most mistakes only mean the beer is not as good as it could be.

After you bottle this keep the bottles at about 70 degrees for at least 2 weeks before checking one bottle. Chill overnight. If it is fully carbonated you can start drinking them. But go slow. The beer will probably get better with a little age. (depending on style - a little age or a long aging.

 

[kyoun1e]

If you have the stick on thermometer that's what you'll have to go by for now.
I'd only add 5-6 inches of water. It'll take a day or so to figure out how much ice you'll need but with a frozen bottle and wet t-shirt I can stay around 65- 66

Well, I'm finding that my basement is pretty darn cold. It's in the low 70s here in the Boston area and my basement, more specifically, a dark room in my basement with no light, is currently reading 64 degrees F.

When it was 90+ last week it seemed pretty cool as well.

May not have to go overboard with the ice.

 

[kh54s10]

I don't get all these cold basements. I am about 60 miles south. My basement doesn't get that cold in the middle of the winter. Half is heated the other half has the furnace. I guess that must be some of the difference. But today it is in the low to mid seventies but the humidity is a bit high so I have the air-conditioner running.....

 

[kyoun1e]

Two more dumb questions:

1. Distilled Water -- This ok for "topping off" to 5 gallons? I was reading other posts that maybe tap water has cholorine in it, but also distilled water may not have the necessary nutrients? I just purchased 3 gallons of distilled water so you know what my preference would be.

2. Topping Off Carboy to 5 Gallons -- I was given a kit for a 5 gallon batch. I'm assuming that the 5 gallon mark is the line at the top where it curves. I'm also guessing that it would be best for me to pour 5 gallons of water in their and mark it myself. (I'm lazy though).

Thanks

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

Distilled water is fine, the yeast nutrients are already in the extract and any minerals that were in the water where the extract was made are in the extract. You want five gallons when you add your wort and water together, so you'll use less than five gallons of water.

 

[kh54s10]

You either need to mark your fermenter, even one already marked should be checked, or measure the wort after the boil, then add measured water until you are at 5 gallons. A half gallon difference will make a difference in the beer, weaker or stronger. Thinner and thicker.

 

[kyoun1e]

You either need to mark your fermenter, even one already marked should be checked, or measure the wort after the boil, then add measured water until you are at 5 gallons. A half gallon difference will make a difference in the beer, weaker or stronger. Thinner and thicker.

Interesting. I didn't realize it was the water amount that drove the alcohol %. This white IPA is probably falling somewhere 5-6%.

So if I topped it off to only 4 gallons, I'm getting walloped possibly? Raising to 6-8%?

 

[eadavis80]

Yes, the less water (volume) you have the stronger your beer will be because all of the fermentable sugars are from your extract. So, if you spread X amount of sugar over 5 gallons vs. spreading X amount of sugar over 4 gallons you'll have a higher ABV beer in the 4 gallon batch.

 

[kyoun1e]

Oh...one more question...on cleaning (not sanitizing)...I have all new equipment. Never used. Is it necessary to do a thorough cleaning? Or is just a quick rinse and then sanitizing fine?

It's my understanding that the cleaning phase is about getting rid of the debris...which I don't have yet.

Thanks

 

[Nokie]

I would give it a light cleaning your first use. Just use a light mix of your cleaner and rinse. Better to be safe than sorry. You could just do your quick cleaning while you're brewing and just turn around and sanitize.

 

[kyoun1e]

Ok, so this doesn't seem right...

I just went down to measure where the 5 gallon mark is on my carboy and, well, I didn't even bother filling it up all the way. At the 4 gallon mark, the water was up to the highest line where it begins to curve.

And this was a kit for a 5 gallon batch.

Does that seem right?

That would leave very little to maybe no room for the final gallon.

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

Maybe link to the kit so we have more info.

 

[kyoun1e]

Maybe link to the kit so we have more info.

Forget it. I re-measured.

It's tight but doable.

I need to stop and just get brewing!

 

[kyoun1e]

I would give it a light cleaning your first use. Just use a light mix of your cleaner and rinse. Better to be safe than sorry. You could just do your quick cleaning while you're brewing and just turn around and sanitize.

I have a jar of PBW. Says one ounce does a gallon of water. Figured I could just dump this in a bucket with all items and soak overnight tonight. Then rinse.

Then, assuming the weather holds out, it's on to sanitizing and then the first brew!

 

[Nokie]

Once you get thru your first batch you'll be hooked. After all this planning you best keep us updated

 

[Thedude907]

Sounds like you have a 5g fermentor. I had to go buy a 6 g carboy. This was something I overlooked as well. I'm a noob but the guy at my lhbs asked if I had a six. I said no and bought one. Turned out in my favor.