Pre-Pump CFC Integrated O2 Injection

[5 Is Not Enough]

Haven't had a chance to try it.

The idea is the pump will draw the wort through the CFC. Right before the pump, the O2 is added through the clear tube connected to a MAPP/O2 torch with only the O2 on. The pump agitates the gas and liquid and outputs (through valve and tube not yet installed) into bottom of fermenter to reduce potential air contaminants.

What do you think?

 

[5 Is Not Enough]

Close ups, because its kind of hard to see in the first pic.

The torch was on sale for $49 at Lowes, w/ a MAPP tank and O2, both filled.

I wish I'd have gone to plastic right after the CFC, but I bought the fittings before I'd thought of that... The clear tube on the right feeds the O2. Copper from bottom is cooled wort and to the left is clear 'site tubing' going to pump.

 

[Bobby_M]

I have to ask a few things...
Will that pump actually "suck"? I know pumps like the march 809 need to be primed and only work by pushing wort, not sucking it.

You're injecting O2 prior to the CFC? You're going to lose cooling efficiency because the O2 is going to insulate to a certain degree and reduce wort to copper surface area.

 

[5 Is Not Enough]

Pump is self priming and will draw water uphill up to 10' in 1/2" line. It is also restrictable, has an auto shutoff and will not be damaged by running dry. Its a Shur-Flo 12V diaphragm pump

O2 is added post chiller, right before the pump. The line that you see is going to the "in" side of the pump. The out is not installed yet.

 

[5 Is Not Enough]

Has anybody used one of the bernzomatic torches for an o2 system?

I'm wondering what kind of flow I should be using with it.

 

[mr x]

That looks like it might work well. You may get better flow if you keep the tee as close to the inlet of the pump as possible. I think a set-up similar to this might also work with a simple venturi.

 

[Bobby_M]

I still think it's counterproductive to put the O2 in prior to the CFC for both cooling efficiency and the most extreme chance of hot side aeration. I'd inject just after the CFC output or after the pump when the wort is already cooled. The O2 will dissolve into it better also just like why we chill kegs before applying the CO2.

 

[mr x]

I think that it is connected to the output of the CFC. I don't think cooling would be a problem if you connected to the hot side because it would slow down the flow (maybe to the point of not working), but if HSA exists, I'd say you'd have it for sure.

 

[5 Is Not Enough]

O2 is injected after cooling, right before the pump.

The pump is "sucking" the wort through the CFC. I figured that what you'd said Bobby_M about the HSA would be bad, but I hadn't considered the possibility of reduced cooling efficiency. Actually, I've read some posts suggesting that the o2 will actually lower the temp of the wort. Which I think makes sense, since when pressurized gas escapes its container, its usually colder than the container or ambient.

Well, shouldn't be an issue since I'm oxygenating on the cold side...

 

[Funkenjaeger]

Several questions:
1) why are you using the torch? I assume it is taking the place of a simpler, cheaper oxygen regulator? It looks like there's a regulator on there, why not just cut the tube and use the regulator WITHOUT all the torch hardware connected to it?
2) is that pump actually safe for food use?
3) is there an aeration stone in there somewhere or are you just shooting large oxygen bubbles into the line?

 

[5 Is Not Enough]

Several questions:
1) why are you using the torch? I assume it is taking the place of a simpler, cheaper oxygen regulator? It looks like there's a regulator on there, why not just cut the tube and use the regulator WITHOUT all the torch hardware connected to it?

Because now I have a torch and an o2 system.

2) is that pump actually safe for food use?

Its a fresh water pump from an RV. Yes, it is safe for food use.

3) is there an aeration stone in there somewhere or are you just shooting large oxygen bubbles into the line?

This was probably my biggest concern with just hooking up the torch vs. getting an actual stone setup. I'm hoping that as the liquid and gas flow through the diaphragm pump, it will agitate it enough to be as effective. I'll probably hook a clear line after the pump to see how it looks coming out.
I was thinking if it doesn't work well, I may try to add a piece of stainless steel wool into the "t" or maybe some other sort of diffuser... I'd love to hear suggestions!

 

[mr x]

With a regular rotary pump, I'd say that'll work sweet as is. I haven't used many small diaphragm pumps like this, but I'm thinking it will work. Do a test run with some water and an AQ pump to supply the air and see how it looks.

 

[5 Is Not Enough]

With a regular rotary pump, I'd say that'll work sweet as is. I haven't used many small diaphragm pumps like this, but I'm thinking it will work. Do a test run with some water and an AQ pump to supply the air and see how it looks.

To bad I dont have an aquarium pump

 

[mr x]

I bet it will still work as a simple venturi once the pump is primed

 

[5 Is Not Enough]

I'm confused about the relationship to this set up and a venturi pump(as in eductor?). The O2 isn't intended as a propellant, both the O2 and liquid are being drawn into the pump together. Please explain?

 

[slnies]

HSA also causes instability in the wort, this leads to premature aging, but mostly off flavors.

 

[5 Is Not Enough]

Hooked everything up for a test run.

The chiller and pump worked great! The flow was spectacular. Cooled to 70' w/ tap water almost all the way on. The drain water was steaming hot.

The O2 and water came out of the pump looking well agitated. A solid stream of tiny bubbles mixed with the water with the 02 regulator just barely on.

The jug was completely cloudy with tiny bubbles. Pretty intense, maybe too much.

 

[5 Is Not Enough]

The only problem:
Now I get the Venturi comment, though I'm not positive this is how it was intended...
As the water rushes through the T into the pump, the kinetic energy also shoots water up the O2 tube (in the same way a venturi pump or eductor works). Even with the torch and tank well above the level of the liquid or pump, it forced it up into the torch... I'm thinking check valve...

 

[mr x]

A venturi works by pulling one gas/liquid into the other by a pressure difference. This is caused by one fluid/gas moving quickly past another. It basically pulls the non energized medium in with the pumped medium.

You shouldn't have water forced into O2 line on the suction side of the pump. If the pump isn't running, it's just gravity pushing the water up there. There isn't any other way. Unless the O2 line was really cold and created a vacuum....

 

[5 Is Not Enough]

A venturi works by pulling one gas/liquid into the other by a pressure difference. This is caused by one fluid/gas moving quickly past another. It basically pulls the non energized medium in with the pumped medium.

You shouldn't have water forced into O2 line on the suction side of the pump. If the pump isn't running, it's just gravity pushing the water up there. There isn't any other way. Unless the O2 line was really cold and created a vacuum....

It does it when the pump runs. I literally pushes the water up the tube and this is on the vacuum side of the pump. Rose 3' in 1/4" tubing in a few seconds. I'm assuming that its doing so in the same way the venturi works...
A strange phenomenon I guess. Now I have to figure out where to get a check valve that small.