Potential issue with White Lab Pure Pitch packaging

[craigmw]

Today, I had to throw out a 5 gallon batch of English IPA due to an obvious lactobacillus infection. I am uncertain of the source of this infection, but note that in five years of brewing, this is the first time I've had to throw out a batch due to infection. Actually, I've never had to drain a batch for any reason before. The only thing different in my process was the use of White Labs' new Pure Pitch packaging. This was only the second time I have used White Labs yeast from their new packaging.

I think the source of the contamination may have been the scissors I used to open the inner pouch. I have used these same scissors to open different bags of grain for milling. I made up a starter and sprayed these scissors and the pouch with StarSan before cutting the pouch and pitching it, so I figured I would be safe and there would be no opportunity for contamination. However, malted grains are known to harbor high levels of lactobacillus. I am not certain that a short spray-down with StarSan is sufficient to kill off all of the lactobacillus (or other potential contaminants) on scissors that may come in contact with the yeast when cutting the Pure Pitch bag. I also noted a bit of a strange smell from the starter before pitching it, though I've not used WLP005 before, so wasn't certain that it may be characteristic of that strain.

In any event, from now on, I will only use a set of scissors specifically designated for cutting Pure Pitch bags, and only after a more extended submersion of the scissors in StarSan. While I miss the vials that White Labs formerly supplied their yeast in because they offered less chance for contamination, I think the new packaging is fine so long as extra care is taken in opening the Pure Pitch inner pouch.

I will emphasize that I don't know that these scissors were the source of contamination. However, because they come in contact with either the yeast slurry directly, or the surfaces on the pouch that are in contact with the slurry, there is a potential for contamination that must be heeded.

 

[MattHollingsworth]

I've used scissors to open Wyeast pouches for 18 years now without incident. I clean the scissors with rubbing alcohol each time. No issues. Maybe try rubbing alcohol instead of star san. And wipe the surface very clean with it. (I haven't used Pure Pitch yet, for the record, so can't comment on that.)

 

[Calichusetts]

I use the scissors in my junk drawer, often without washing them first but usually after. Is this a good practice? Obviously not, but with over 100 batches with dry yeast and some liquid yeast packs, I've never had an infection. Good for you to try and nail down any possible contamination, but I'm guessing the infection came from somewhere else. At least consider that option.

 

[DurtyChemist]

Five Star says to let StarSan sit for at least a minute before opening. Simply spraying then cutting into a package doesn't kill enough bacteria. When mixed properly the pH of StarSan is below 3.0 which would kill Lactobacillus but so would a Coke/Pepsi/Dr.Pepper because the pH of that stuff is like 2.5. Good idea to have dedicated scissors for yeast since kitchen scissors may not have been cleaned the day or two before you used them. I have a nice set of kitchen knives that I keep sharp and clean every time I use them including scissors because we cut a LOT of stuff with bacteria such as thawed chicken.

 

[jessup]

I use the scissors in my junk drawer, often without washing them first but usually after. Is this a good practice? Obviously not, but with over 100 batches with dry yeast and some liquid yeast packs, I've never had an infection. Good for you to try and nail down any possible contamination, but I'm guessing the infection came from somewhere else. At least consider that option.

Ditto. Raw bacon juices & such on scissors & never any issue.

 

[Rev2010]

I use the same all purpose kitchen scissors for cutting open my Wyeast packages. I submerge the full blades in StarSan at the same time I hold the top half of the Wyeast pack in the StarSan. Never once had an issue. I'd recommend simply submerging the blades. And for dry yeast I've never once bothered sanitizing the package or scissors and been using dry yeast frequently for quite some time now and never had a single issue.


Rev.

 

[agrazela]

Maybe the title of this thread should be, "Potential issue with using dirty scissors to cut open yeast packaging."

 

[craigmw]

I've used scissors to open Wyeast pouches for 18 years now without incident. I clean the scissors with rubbing alcohol each time. No issues. Maybe try rubbing alcohol instead of star san. And wipe the surface very clean with it. (I haven't used Pure Pitch yet, for the record, so can't comment on that.)

I think that's a good idea. I will probably just set aside a separate set of scissors for this purpose and then sanitize with 70% ethanol or rubbing alcohol.

 

[craigmw]

I use the scissors in my junk drawer, often without washing them first but usually after. Is this a good practice? Obviously not, but with over 100 batches with dry yeast and some liquid yeast packs, I've never had an infection. Good for you to try and nail down any possible contamination, but I'm guessing the infection came from somewhere else. At least consider that option.

Yes, it is possible that the source of infection was elsewhere, but I also have brewed over 100 batches without incident (mostly using White Labs liquid yeast from vials). I'm fairly certain the infection was present in the starter based on the somewhat funky smell. Of course, it could be that I didn't properly sanitize the 2L starter flask. In any event, I wanted to post this as a cautionary note so others will be a bit more careful with this step, particularly as this will be new to many with the new White Labs packaging. I will certainly be more cautious.

 

[kh54s10]

Maybe the title of this thread should be, "Potential issue with using dirty scissors to cut open yeast packaging."

Agreed, I started reading this post assuming the OP had some idea there was a problem that originated at White Labs, or was a problem with the packaging itself.....

 

[Bilbo1usa]

While I understand the idea behind the Pure Pitch, I too miss the tubes.

One thing I've begun to do is toss the package and open scissors into my sanitizer bucket for several minutes while I prepare the transfer equipment.

I find the Pure Pitch package to be clumsier to handle, and actually spilled the yeast on the outside of the carboy trying to dump from the 'pouch' on my first attempt with the product.

Like anything else, once I got used to it, I haven't had any issues.

 

[UndeadFred]

I wash scissors with dishwashing detergent, dry with new paper towels and then spray with StarSan. If there is anything on the scissors physically it can harbor bacteria that the StarSan can't get to. But I use them for everything. The kitchen shears get put in the dishwasher on the sanitary cycle quite often too...

 

[tagz]

Ugh. That new packaging sucks. It's like trying to squeeze ketchup out of a foil packet.

 

[jake-k]

+1^ miss the old vials

 

[bob1852]

Ugh. That new packaging sucks. It's like trying to squeeze ketchup out of a foil packet.

Yep, at least you could rinse out the vial with wort to get all the yeast out. Too much of a pain with the pouch...

 

[Brulosopher]

I've used scissors to open Wyeast pouches for 18 years now without incident. I clean the scissors with rubbing alcohol each time. No issues. Maybe try rubbing alcohol instead of star san. And wipe the surface very clean with it. (I haven't used Pure Pitch yet, for the record, so can't comment on that.)

Same here, I'm not convinced scissors are the culprit as often as people think.

Ugh. That new packaging sucks. It's like trying to squeeze ketchup out of a foil packet.

But it comes with 60-70bil more cells!

+1^ miss the old vials

But it comes with... ^said it up there

 

[Stocktonbrew]

I thought the new packaging was easy. I never liked how the tubes foamed up when you twisted the cap off.

 

[ZebulonBrewer]

I thought the new packaging was easy. I never liked how the tubes foamed up when you twisted the cap off.

[Full disclosure: I've got a package of 029 in the packet that I haven't used. Other than that, I have no experience with the new packaging]

This happened to me a couple of times, and was a real pain. I can see having to squeeze the yeast out of the packet being annoying, but easier to shake up and gently release any pressure. I'm looking forward to whatever Kolsch/Lager I use the 029 on.

 

[BobBailey]

Handling yeast s a sterile operation, not just sanitary. There's a big difference. If you're using scissors, wash them and the packaging with 70% isopropyl alcohol. This will clean and effectively sterilize them.

 

[tagz]

Handling yeast s a sterile operation, not just sanitary. There's a big difference. If you're using scissors, wash them and the packaging with 70% isopropyl alcohol. This will clean and effectively sterilize them.

It's sterile until the ketchup pack squirts the yeast all over your hands.

 

[brokebucket]

I have yet to use the new packaging, but thought immediately how they were fixing a problem that wasnt there. Wyeast packages are much easier to handle, albeit maybe a little overkill on the sizing.

Lucky enough to have a local yeast supplier (RVA yeast labs), but their packaging is even worse than the vials for foaming up. Luckily, they come with 200 billion cells, so you have some to lose.

 

[Wiscohio_brewer]

I've used the White Labs pure pitch three times and the first time I used it I learned very quickly do NOT cut on the dotted line where it says to. Cut at almost the very top because the package is packed so full that if you cut at the dotted line, yeast will spill and there will be a decent amount still on the top portion you cut off. I miss the vials as well, but I haven't had a bad fermentation or infection yet from this new packaging.

 

[Bob1947]

First time making beer for me and had two problems,one is I boiled the wort outside in my burner I use for the Turkey fryer and that worked great but when I submerged the brand new wart chiller into the wort and turned on the water the tubing came off the copper end and I got about a cup of water from the hose in the wort. I returned it to the burner and boiled it for 5 more minutes and then cooled it after tightening up the clamps. I think I am good with that but what concerns me the most is that I cut open the yeast pack with a pair of scissors that were in my junk draw and did not realize what I had done until an hour later. So I am hoping that I did not contaminate the wort by not sterilizing the scissors. Ant thoughts on this would be appreciated.
Thanks

 

[jschein]

First time making beer for me and had two problems,one is I boiled the wort outside in my burner I use for the Turkey fryer and that worked great but when I submerged the brand new wart chiller into the wort and turned on the water the tubing came off the copper end and I got about a cup of water from the hose in the wort. I returned it to the burner and boiled it for 5 more minutes and then cooled it after tightening up the clamps. I think I am good with that but what concerns me the most is that I cut open the yeast pack with a pair of scissors that were in my junk draw and did not realize what I had done until an hour later. So I am hoping that I did not contaminate the wort by not sterilizing the scissors. Ant thoughts on this would be appreciated.

Thanks

Probably not an issue. Report back when you check the gravity in 3 weeks

 

[Bob1947]

Wow , that was fast. I did not realize there was a beginner forum so I posted there as well so did not think I would be seen buried in the other post but I was wrong. Thank You for your reple . I am brewing a Oktoberfest and suppose to take about 1 week in primary and 1 week in secondary I sure will let you know what the gravity is at that time.
thanks again

 

[mxstar21]

I've used the White Labs pure pitch three times and the first time I used it I learned very quickly do NOT cut on the dotted line where it says to. Cut at almost the very top because the package is packed so full that if you cut at the dotted line, yeast will spill and there will be a decent amount still on the top portion you cut off. I miss the vials as well, but I haven't had a bad fermentation or infection yet from this new packaging.

I cut at the very top and pull the clear plastic out so I can see where the yeast and cut accordingly. It makes it easier to squeeze it all out.

 

[JJack887]

Just used it and I agree, it's a pain. Vials all the way.

 

[d3track]

I have had no problems with the new package, not much to figure out...

 

[BobBailey]

No need to beat it into a foam. Just lightly message, cut and pitch into your starter or wort. I find it easier than the vials to pitch.

 

[bbohanon]

Just to chime in on this..I have grown to hate the new packaging with the passion of the Christ.
I can NEVER cut the package open without losing some fluid to the counter/sink.

Frustrating to watch your money getting spilled out of the package.

I want all of the yeast to go into my BEER, not 1/4 of it to land in the sink/counter/etc.

Just stupid..bring back the stinking vials or start using the Wyeast packaging style as at least there is some headspace there to cut the damn package open without spillage.

Watched a good bit of 833 hit my counter this morning getting a starter ready for Mondays batch and it just hit the "Grinds My Gears" button today.

 

[Vandulus]

I often wonder if all the extra cells are to make up for the fact it's harder to get the yeast out of the new package. With the vials, I could shake it until it was mixed and use wort to get out any remains. With the new packet I roll it up from the bottom, but I still feel like there's too much left behind.

 

[bbohanon]

I was so pissed this morning I actually sent a nasty gram to white labs on this.
I think its a ploy to get you to have to buy more due to spillage.

 

[bbohanon]

I was so pissed this morning I actually sent a nasty gram to white labs on this.
I think its a ploy to get you to have to buy more due to spillage.

I just got this back from WLabs:

"Hi Bill,

Thank you for the feedback. We are constantly looking for feedback on our packaging from the brewing and homebrewing community (without it, we will never be able to make wanted improvements).

For the most part the feedback on the Purepitch packs have been positive, we have been able to increase cell count, viability, and shelf life with Purepitch. Hopefully in a future improvement of the Purepitch pack we can add the ability to tear the pack open.

I think most people hold the bag loosely from the edges when the cut the top off the pack and it usually doesn’t spill out if that helps.

Thanks!"

They really need to put something like a ziplock top like what you see with sandwich meat..That would solve the problem imho.

 

[ncbrewer]

Hopefully in a future improvement of the Purepitch pack we can add the ability to tear the pack open.

That's funny.

 

[jmcquesten]

I just got this back from WLabs:

"Hi Bill,

Thank you for the feedback. We are constantly looking for feedback on our packaging from the brewing and homebrewing community (without it, we will never be able to make wanted improvements).

For the most part the feedback on the Purepitch packs have been positive, we have been able to increase cell count, viability, and shelf life with Purepitch. Hopefully in a future improvement of the Purepitch pack we can add the ability to tear the pack open.

I think most people hold the bag loosely from the edges when the cut the top off the pack and it usually doesn’t spill out if that helps.

Thanks!"

They really need to put something like a ziplock top like what you see with sandwich meat..That would solve the problem imho.

I had an issue with a pack. The inner pouch was split at the seam and the yeast leaked out to the outer pouch. Emailed them and never heard back. Called them a couple times and they finally said they'd send a free replacement. The replacement never showed up. Not impressed by the packaging or the customer service, but it's the only yeast available locally. I've started cutting the outer packaging open, then shaking the inner pouch before cutting it open.

 

[Homercidal]

I am no fan of the new pouches, but I haven't had a real problem with them either. I have started to cut the outer package and then remove the inner.

I just feel the old vials were easier to use and I could more easily get all of the yeast out. And I had a useful container when I pitched form the old vials.

 

[govner1]

Simple solution- use Wyeast or rehydrate your choice of dry yeast!

 

[Mer-man]

I'm a fan of buying once and overbuilding starters

 

[craigmw]

I am no fan of the new pouches, but I haven't had a real problem with them either. I have started to cut the outer package and then remove the inner.

I just feel the old vials were easier to use and I could more easily get all of the yeast out. And I had a useful container when I pitched form the old vials.

This is what I'm doing as well. Having two plastic edges to potentially contaminate my wort is not worth it. Plus, it is much easier to handle. But I've also experienced some loss of yeast due to the packaging.

 

[bootney]

Any one having lag issues with the Pure Pitch? I have to do at least 3 starters prior to pitching to a batch of beer before the yeast shows any significant activity. The first starter barely drops from the initial gravity. Manufacture date has no influence on this.