Post your infection

[brianpablo]

I've spent the better part of a year battling this "house strain" of mold, so I've decided I'm going to stop brewing until I figure this one out.

I'm pretty sure this is the same infection as one in the inaugural post of this thread, which talks about the flavor being "bitter but not hop bitter." When I've posted previous occurrences, folks have said it *looks* like lacto, but it has a shi**y bitterness and no sour taste.

I soak my carboys (Better bottles) in bleach solution, along with my auto-syphon, racking hose, aeration hoses, and thief. I rinse them out with hot water, and then sanitize them with Star-San. I boil my diffusion stone and then soak it in Star-San.

My solution for a long time was just to not open the damn thing for 10 days, then bottle whatever was there (it was usually all fermented by then). This meant no gravity tests, no racking to secondary, no dry-hopping. If the seal came off any time before bottling, that crud started growing and the batch was ready to feed to the fish. Whenever I bottled anything that did have crud growth, there was always a film at the top of the bottles and a very nasty bitterness. This last batch sat for three weeks without being opened and still went off, but I think the bung was a bit loose.

My theory has been that this stuff can't compete with yeast during active fermentation, because it doesn't show up until secondary or if there's been some sort of oxygen leak. All of my beers have had a faint mustiness that only I notice, which suggests to me that this thing has been there all along but can't grow if I keep the oxygen out. I have no idea if this is actually correct. I have never seen this infection take root after bottling if it wasn't already there when I bottled.

I plan to replace the carboys and use a new racking hose, auto-siphon, thief, diffusion stone, and aeration hose. It has also occurred to me that this could be coming from the wort chiller - I tend to do small batches and the coil does not get entirely immersed. Perhaps something is surviving in there despite me boiling the bottom half of the coil for 5 or 10 mins.

My only other thought is that this could somehow be airborne in the kitchen where I brew and the bathroom where I leave the carboys. This is perhaps a self-indulgent theory, as it would blame pesky floating spores rather than my own sanitation incompetence. If anyone's heard of the latter please let me know, as I'll probably have to settle for don't-open-the-damn-thing-and-put-up-with-the-musty-flavor approach, which I think I'd actually be OK with.

Thanks, Brian

 

[Resonator]

Try cleaning your immersion coil and the soaking it in a bucket of star-San solution for a half hour. The acid should turn it all bright and shiny and make sure it's completely sanitized. I've only boiled the coil once and didn't like it. The coil gets super got for the tubes for the first set of water. Where if I have it in my star San then I can run water through it to fill the sink and cool it down before. I usually get my wort down to 70 in 10 min with an ice bath using frozen water bottles and the immersion coil.

Could be in the plastic of the fermenter or your equipment.

Also, I would use pbw or oxiclean free instead of bleach. Bleach is a sanitizer more than a cleaner. It won't remove organic material like pbw or oxiclean does.

 

[unionrdr]

I agree. When things get nasties mixed with krausen crud, trub, etc, I'll hose it out real good, then soak in 3-4 TBSP's of PBW with room temp water filled up to the top of where the crud line was. Stir till PBW is dissolved, then let it sit a couple days. Brush it inside now & then after the first day. Then drain & rinse well. Soak/swish with Starsan after that, having first removed any spigots & soaked/cleaned/sanitized them before re-installing to swish the sanitizer around it. Wipe it dry & allow to air dry a bit.
I have a keg line cleaner 66" long with a 3/8" brush to use with PBW to clean my tubing inside with. A soft cloth with PBW outside. Rinse & use a small funnel to pour rinse water through the tubing, then Starsan before draining & hanging up to dry. This should stop nasties from starting colonies inside the tubing till used next time. If the tubing is stained pretty bad inside from long use, replace them. I even soak airlock parts in PBW, then treat the same as the other parts.
After cleaning & rinsing, you could then bl;each-bomb the stuff. Then rise very well with very warm water (in the case of plastics) till bleach smell is gone. Then proceed with Starsan...

 

[joshesmusica]

Well here's an unfortunate infection. I had a rare yeast strain that I had been propagating pitched into a Galaxy/Cascade hoppy american wheat. I find that starsan rapidly evaporates during the vigorous part of fermentation, so I often have to fill it up. I usually just take it out and fill it in my bucket with starsan. Sometimes it's a little sticky, so I have to push and pull and twist to get it out. This time I accidentally pushed the rubber gasket through the hole, and then automatic muscle response had me pulling back up on the airlock, which dislodged the gasket and into the beer. ****. Well I opted to let it ride instead of soaking my arm or some tongs in starsan and trying to fish it out, hoping that nothing would happen. At two weeks into fermentation, open it up to find this...

Sorry for the long story, by the way.

My wife is currently in a biology class, so she asked her teacher if we could take some in and look at it under the microscope. He thought he had what one needs to do some gram staining, but turns out he didn't. I was actually rooting for it being a lactic bacteria so that I could propagate it to pitch into a berliner weisse at some point, but now I don't really know for sure what it is. Although I will say, the fermentor smells more like lactic sour than acetic sour. So my hunch is that it's lactic, but no way to really be sure. I'm hoping the teacher will order the stuff necessary to do the gram stain, and I left a jar with the infected beer back in his lab.

One question though for anybody who knows their stuff: what are those bigger cells that the rods seem to be surrounding/attached to? Is it just a water cell?

 

[IJesusChrist]

To make bleach a cleaner you just mix it with soap.

When I have an infection I bleach the he'll out of everything. That means pouring bleach in my fermentors, making sure it coats the entire surface, and then I leave this in the California Sun for a day. You'll kill everything in that bucket. Make sure to take apart all the nozzles, I rings, if you have them, the air lock, soak the lid as well. Additionally, the place you brew at, spray allllll the surfaces down with 70% ipa or ethanol before brewing. I'd bleach it, even, if it made sense to do so. Also turn off any fans/AC during fermentation to minimize airborne particles.

 

[IJesusChrist]

Those last two pictures aren't cells, haha. Air bubble

 

[Resonator]

Brush it inside now & then after the first day.

I probably wouldn't use a brush on plastic fermenters. That could cause scratches, allowing for more infections.

I would just mix hot water and pbw and let it sit for a day, dump it out and rinse it with hot water a few time. Then when it looks clean just repeat the pbw and hot water for another day, and the rinse out again with hot water a few times.

 

[unionrdr]

I use a bottle brush lightly, as they're both plastic...the brush being monofilament. Lightly done, since the gunk is soft, works fine.

 

[wulf]

Well I've been enjoying the fact that all my noob beers have been turning out great, and wondered why I haven't suffered any infections while people more versed and talented in the art have fallen. Well, that wish might have finally been granted =p

The intention was to build a darker saision with mostly brett in primary. Pitched with the dregs of Anchorage's Tide and it's Takers, and Logsdon's Seizon Bretta. Yeast started 2 days prior to pitching.

The visual isn't what bothers me, its the strong scent of rotten eggs/ sewage. Funnily enough it reminds me of the scent of Anchorage's Whiteout Wit.

Thoughts?

 

[Resonator]

Well I've been enjoying the fact that all my noob beers have been turning out great, and wondered why I haven't suffered any infections while people more versed and talented in the art have fallen. Well, that wish might have finally been granted =p

The intention was to build a darker saision with mostly brett in primary. Pitched with the dregs of Anchorage's Tide and it's Takers, and Logsdon's Seizon Bretta. Yeast started 2 days prior to pitching.

The visual isn't what bothers me, its the strong scent of rotten eggs/ sewage. Funnily enough it reminds me of the scent of Anchorage's Whiteout Wit.

Thoughts?

So you added Brett beer dregs and then pitched the yeast?

 

[wulf]

I put the dregs in separate dme+nutrient starters 2 days prior to brewday

 

[Quadrupled]

One question though for anybody who knows their stuff: what are those bigger cells that the rods seem to be surrounding/attached to? Is it just a water cell?

I've spent plenty of time using microscopes, these are just tiny air bubbles.

 

[joshesmusica]

I've spent plenty of time using microscopes, these are just tiny air bubbles.

Ok, thanks. I wasn't too terribly concerned with those, but was still just curious. Without doing a gram test, is there really any way to tell by looking at those cells what organism it is? I had one guy in a different thread tell me he thought they were actually some form of wild yeast. He said likely not a sacch strain because of the more rod-shaped structure.

 

[p_p]

I've spent the better part of a year battling this "house strain" of mold, so I've decided I'm going to stop brewing until I figure this one out.

I'm pretty sure this is the same infection as one in the inaugural post of this thread, which talks about the flavor being "bitter but not hop bitter." When I've posted previous occurrences, folks have said it *looks* like lacto, but it has a shi**y bitterness and no sour taste.

I soak my carboys (Better bottles) in bleach solution, along with my auto-syphon, racking hose, aeration hoses, and thief. I rinse them out with hot water, and then sanitize them with Star-San. I boil my diffusion stone and then soak it in Star-San.

My solution for a long time was just to not open the damn thing for 10 days, then bottle whatever was there (it was usually all fermented by then). This meant no gravity tests, no racking to secondary, no dry-hopping. If the seal came off any time before bottling, that crud started growing and the batch was ready to feed to the fish. Whenever I bottled anything that did have crud growth, there was always a film at the top of the bottles and a very nasty bitterness. This last batch sat for three weeks without being opened and still went off, but I think the bung was a bit loose.

My theory has been that this stuff can't compete with yeast during active fermentation, because it doesn't show up until secondary or if there's been some sort of oxygen leak. All of my beers have had a faint mustiness that only I notice, which suggests to me that this thing has been there all along but can't grow if I keep the oxygen out. I have no idea if this is actually correct. I have never seen this infection take root after bottling if it wasn't already there when I bottled.

I plan to replace the carboys and use a new racking hose, auto-siphon, thief, diffusion stone, and aeration hose. It has also occurred to me that this could be coming from the wort chiller - I tend to do small batches and the coil does not get entirely immersed. Perhaps something is surviving in there despite me boiling the bottom half of the coil for 5 or 10 mins.

My only other thought is that this could somehow be airborne in the kitchen where I brew and the bathroom where I leave the carboys. This is perhaps a self-indulgent theory, as it would blame pesky floating spores rather than my own sanitation incompetence. If anyone's heard of the latter please let me know, as I'll probably have to settle for don't-open-the-damn-thing-and-put-up-with-the-musty-flavor approach, which I think I'd actually be OK with.

Thanks, Brian

Are you aerating using oxygen or an aquarium pump? Do you have an inline filter?
I remember reading a post where someone had a similar problem. It turned out there was mould in the ventilation system and was being blown around.

 

[bishkekbadger]

still new to brewing and wanted to know if this was an infection. its an oatmeal stout and we in the primary fermenter for seven weeks.

 

[lowtones84]

That just looks like yeast or leftover krausen with some hoppy residue from what I can tell. Hope it's closed back up, or you're bottling it. Is there any reason it has been in primary for seven weeks? That's quite a long time, but should be fine.

 

[Mx750ktm]

Hoping for good news here, I brewed two batches pretty close to back to back and a few days ago I posted a Picture of the Smoked porter and was told it was infected. Hoping this stout looks normal to you more experienced eyes.

Not sure if this is info you would like to know, But during the boil I added Unsweetened bakers chocolate and some bitter orange peel at the end which is what i think is floating up top in one of the pictures.

 

[Resonator]

Hoping for good news here, I brewed two batches pretty close to back to back and a few days ago I posted a Picture of the Smoked porter and was told it was infected. Hoping this stout looks normal to you more experienced eyes.



Not sure if this is info you would like to know, But during the boil I added Unsweetened bakers chocolate and some bitter orange peel at the end which is what i think is floating up top in one of the pictures.

Looks like some yeasty krausen bubbles. I'd say you're fine. I don't see any pellicle or spots that look like the start of an infection

 

[Brew_G]

Looks like some yeasty krausen bubbles. I'd say you're fine. I don't see any pellicle or spots that look like the start of an infection

Agreed.

Now close that f'ing fermenter!

 

[brewbama]

Now close that f'ing fermenter!

Rgr that. I think if folks would quit opening the fermenter there'd be a lot less infections!

 

[unionrdr]

There's some white streaky stuff between the krausen bubbles. But it could be the oils from the orange peel & chocolate.

 

[Bryan_85]

Hi guys,
My beer has a strange film on the top. The picture helps, but doesn't show the film very well. I have a hop bag in it, and when I shift the hop bag, the film "bunches up" along the surface. Any idea what it could be? This is about my 30th batch over 3 years and haven't had any infections before, but I'm definitely not as sanitary as some brewers.

oh, and the details: This is an IPA. the film started in the 2nd week of fermentation. Today marks 2 weeks since brewing. Not sure if smell is often effected by infections, but seems to smell normal. Anything else I can tell you?

thanks!

PS

 

[specharka]

Hi guys,
My beer has a strange film on the top. The picture helps, but doesn't show the film very well. I have a hop bag in it, and when I shift the hop bag, the film "bunches up" along the surface. Any idea what it could be? This is about my 30th batch over 3 years and haven't had any infections before, but I'm definitely not as sanitary as some brewers.

oh, and the details: This is an IPA. the film started in the 2nd week of fermentation. Today marks 2 weeks since brewing. Not sure if smell is often effected by infections, but seems to smell normal. Anything else I can tell you?

thanks!

PS

Definitely infected. Looks like lactobacillis if I'm not mistaken.

Just curious, but did you sanitize your hop bag before you tossed it into the fermenter?

 

[beergolf]

Looks infected, however it is impossible to identify the infection by the look of the pellicle.

 

[joshesmusica]

Looks infected, however it is impossible to identify the infection by the look of the pellicle.

Hahahaha, how many times do you think you've repeated this statement? Do you just have it always ready to copy and paste?

 

[Bryan_85]

Definitely infected. Looks like lactobacillis if I'm not mistaken.

Just curious, but did you sanitize your hop bag before you tossed it into the fermenter?

thanks specharka.
I did; however, I only threw in the hops a couple of days ago (after the film had already formed).

 

[beergolf]

Hahahaha, how many times do you think you've repeated this statement? Do you just have it always ready to copy and paste?

No I don't have it copied. But it is impossible to determine what bacteria is causing the infection without a microscope and a degree in microbiology.Just parroting the "It is a lacto infection" is just giving incorrect information. There are a lot of other bacteria that can make a pellicle like that.

Also it was an IPA and it has only been two weeks. Hops inhibit lacto growth. Could it be a lacto infection? Yes, possibly. But there are a lot of other infections it could be.

 

[joshesmusica]

No I don't have it copied. But it is impossible to determine what bacteria is causing the infection without a microscope and a degree in microbiology.Just parroting the "It is a lacto infection" is just giving incorrect information. There are a lot of other bacteria that can make a pellicle like that.

Also it was an IPA and it has only been two weeks. Hops inhibit lacto growth. Could it be a lacto infection? Yes, possibly. But there are a lot of other infections it could be.

I agree, I just recently posted an infection that I assumed was lacto because it smells more like a lactic sourness than vinegar, but I had a guy comment on a different thread that he though it was a wild yeast. Without a gram test, and as you said, microbiology studies, there's no way to know. I was confused as to how it could be a lactobacillus strain too, because it was a hoppy wheat beer.

 

[arnobg]

Is this an infection or just yeast/fermentation? It is an Irish Red Ale and has been in primary for only 3 days now and appears fermentation is complete as the krausen dropped down by this morning.

 

[DrunkleJon]

Looks fine to me. Usually infections will look like an frozen over lake ice pack or like a mutant spider made a web that covers the entire surface of your beer with some gnarly looking bubbles trying to force their way through. If its 3 days old and the krausen has fallen, an infection really wouldn't have had enough time to show or do much of anything.