Possible infection?

[MN_Jay]

Howdy folks. I rarely post on this forum but I do log on most every day and read what I can. I recently taken up homebrewing again after a few year hiatus. Before my hiatus I have brewed dozens of beers, both extract and all grain and have never had a problem.

When I decided to start brewing again, I decided to do a few extract brews to get my feet wet again, so far I have done 3 brews - all extract. Edworts haus pale ale (Nottingham dry yeast), a dogfish 60 clone (Nottingham dry yeast), and a sierra Nevada pale ale clone (white labs liquid yeast with no starter) from Midwest brewing. The only difference is time around is that I am living in a new house - although I always buy spring water for my beers. Also I have brewed many beers following the very same process and sanitation procedures and never had a problem.

Here's my problem - I ferment in my basement where the ambient temperature is 65F(I always cool my beer to 65 - 70 degrees very quickly before pitching). Beer always ferments down to where it needs to be and always tastes great. I usually let it sit on the yeast cake for about a month before I keg or bottle. Right around that time my beers start having a off smell and flavor and I can't put my finger on what it is. It is getting worse over time, its' been in the keg for 6 weeks now and it seems like it's getting worse. Just as an experiement I let my last brew sit for 8 weeks and decided to bottle this batch ( I kegged the other 2) and I could already smell and taste it pretty strong.

As for the off flavor, I can't quite describe it - maybe a banana smell but not really? Also it has completely taken over the beer, there is no other taste other than this, all the bitterness and hop character is completely gone and lastly it goes completely flat just minutes after a pour. In fact, it is so bad that the Sierra Nevada clone and Edworts haus pale ale tastes exactly the same, I can't tell which is which.

This is very frustrating. I want to brew again but feel I can't until I get this sorted out.

Please help!!

 

[number40fan]

I would take a guess and say you are letting it sit on the yeast cake too long.

 

[flars]

Your wort may be at to high of temperature during the first few days of active fermentation. Have you tracked the fermentation temperature?

 

[McNasty]

A month on the yeast should be fine.

What sanitizer are you using? I had a chronic infection problem too. I finally figured out my tap water was way too hard for starsan, putting it outside the proper pH range to work. Using starsan with distilled water solved all my problems. It's a great sanitizer, just not good with my tap water. All of my beers had a similar off flavor. Bland and a little tart. Just not very good. When you mix it, it shouldn't be cloudy.

What kind of fermentor are you using? Just checking to make sure it's food grade.

 

[giraffe]

Are you using plastic or glass fermenters? How are you sanitizing them? What are you doing for airlocks? It could be a wild yeast infection? Or sitting on the yeast cake too long? Though a month isnt that long. Hows the clarity?

 

[McNasty]

The reason I'm guessing sanitation is because he said it started to happen post fermentation and got worse from there. Mine tasted great when sampling my gravity tests, but started going downhill after a couple weeks. It's like the infection couldn't take over until the yeast were done.

 

[MN_Jay]

Your wort may be at to high of temperature during the first few days of active fermentation. Have you tracked the fermentation temperature?

According to the sticky on the side of the fermenter, it sat at about 68 - 69 degrees.

What sanitizer are you using? I had a chronic infection problem too. I finally figured out my tap water was way too hard for starsan, putting it outside the proper pH range to work. Using starsan with distilled water solved all my problems. It's a great sanitizer, just not good with my tap water. All of my beers had a similar off flavor. Bland and a little tart. Just not very good. When you mix it, it shouldn't be cloudy.

What kind of fermentor are you using? Just checking to make sure it's food grade.

I was using starsan but it is a few years old. I did check to see if that was too old but from what I could read, it should easily have a shelf life of at least that long. That is interesting about the PH though, I never thought of that - I've never been one to ever look at PH levels but it'd definitely something to check out since I do use tap water for my sanitizer and this didn't start happening until I moved to a new house. Also my fermenters have varied from regular brew buckets to the plastic better bottle, all of which are food grade and ones I've used before.

Are you using plastic or glass fermenters? How are you sanitizing them? What are you doing for airlocks? It could be a wild yeast infection? Or sitting on the yeast cake too long? Though a month isnt that long. Hows the clarity?

All plastic but I've used them all many times before without any issue. My sanitation is pretty sound I think. I always mix a 3 gallon batch the same day and put the cover on the bucket and shake it up, pour out the sanitizer once done. I still spray down the cover after I pitch too. Airlocks are always full of sanitizer solution - never went dry. Clarity is another thing, if it's warm then it is as clear as I could ever hope for. I do get bad chill haze even though I have been using irish moss.

 

[McNasty]

Ok cool. The new water source may be the culprit. You can do a google search and get a water report. The bicarbonate level of my tap water is around 355 which is really high. You could put star san in a clear glass and add some tap water. See if it gets cloudy. I wouldn't rule it out if it's clear, but if it gets cloudy you'll know for sure. Either way, you should use distilled with starsan from now on. You can store it and reuse it for much longer. Plus, you'll know that the solution is not the issue.

Otherwise, your sanitizing process looks sound. Fermentation temps are good. Seems like you know what you're doing.

 

[McNasty]

Oh and I just finished off a star san bottle that had to be 4-5 years old. Worked great with distilled and killed off the infection problem I had. I wouldn't worry about that.

 

[MN_Jay]

I'm hoping I didn't throw out that bottle of starsan so I could test your theory. I now have a new bottle of one step, I've never used it before but that's all they had at my LHBS. I'm still planning on mixing that with distilled water like you suggested.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[flars]

Going over all the posts. It seems your problem begins at the time you are taking SG readings to check for FG. Is there anything in your sampling method that could contaminate the fermentor? Could your wine/beer thief, or other sample tool, harbor infected old gunk?
Excuse me for asking, but do you pour you hydrometer samples back into the fermentor?

 

[MN_Jay]

It's actually first noticeable 3-4 weeks after fermentation is complete. I'm pretty good about cleaning and sanitizing - I sanitize a turkey baster to take my hydrometer sample out and no, the rest of the same doesn't go back to the bucket - that's my tasting sample at that point

 

[unionrdr]

Do any of your fermenters have spigots on them? They need to be removed & cleaned/re-sanitized before re-assembly. Clean & sanitize the mounting hole too. This can prevent infections & off flavors in FV's & bottling buckets.

 

[flars]

I will be taking the spigot on my bottling bucket apart after every use from now on. Took the spigot apart after the last three consecutive uses. Had to use a tooth pick to get the brown gunk out of the top of the main body.

 

[unionrdr]

I use one of those plastic lunch meat containers from the store. Fill it with PBW & soak the spigot for a while. Then use aquarium lift tube brushes to scrub it & the parts. A paper towel with Starsan to clean the mounting hole. Rinse, dunk all in Starsan & re-assemble wet.

 

[MN_Jay]

No I only used a spigot on the last brew, the rest I auto-siphoned into a keg. In fact, I could begin to taste the off flavor on the last beer before I even bottled.

 

[unionrdr]

Maybe the auto siphon was dirty or sucking air? Either of those can cause off flavors.

 

[Agentaaron]

I will be taking the spigot on my bottling bucket apart after every use from now on. Took the spigot apart after the last three consecutive uses. Had to use a tooth pick to get the brown gunk out of the top of the main body.

First off...I have spigots on all my fermenters, both primary and secondary (because I do not always secondary my beer and bottle/keg right from the fermenter).

every time I take a batch off the cake and wash the fermenter, I disassemble the spigot and wash/rinse it thoroughly...before I reassemble a bucket for the next batch, I drop the spigot, nut, and washers in a plastic dish with water and microwave it for 4 minutes...then I reassemble and sanitize the bucket.

not to toot my horn, but I have only lost one batch since 1999...and that was my own stupid fault, I used a metal twisty to close off a bag of hops I used to dryhop a beer...(I think I may have been one homebrew too deep when I thought that would work out ok)

 

[brooks56]

Ok cool. The new water source may be the culprit. You can do a google search and get a water report. The bicarbonate level of my tap water is around 355 which is really high. You could put star san in a clear glass and add some tap water. See if it gets cloudy. I wouldn't rule it out if it's clear, but if it gets cloudy you'll know for sure. Either way, you should use distilled with starsan from now on. You can store it and reuse it for much longer. Plus, you'll know that the solution is not the issue.

Otherwise, your sanitizing process looks sound. Fermentation temps are good. Seems like you know what you're doing.

I also just moved and finished my first brew in the new house. My StarSan was definitely cloudy when I put it into the air lock. I didn't notice it cloudy when I mixed I sanitized everything though. My fermentation is bubbling but it hasn't really taken off like I was expecting. Am I doomed to an infected batch? Is there something I can do to save the brew? I'm two days into fermentation.

 

[McNasty]

I wouldn't panic. From my understanding, all starsan is going to get cloudy eventually. If you want, make some starsan solution with distilled or RO water and replace the airlocks. Or use vodka.

Even though my starsan wasn't effective, I made several good batches without infection. The problem was, once I got an infection, I couldn't get rid of it. So, if you've never had an infection, you'll probably be fine. Just use RO or distilled next time. I keep a spray bottle and it lasts months.

 

[brooks56]

I've never had an infection issue and wash everything thoroughly before sanitizing. Not sure if it's a good sign or not but the starsan did clear up shortly after putting it in the air lock. I looked up how hard our water is online and it said it was 116-178ppm depending on when and where sample was taken. Average was 123.

 

[McNasty]

Oh, I would think your water is fine as is. I listened to a podcast with one of the starsan founders and he said only extremely hard water could be a problem. Most tap water should be fine. My HCO3 levels are around 355 ppm. I use a lot of RO for brewing to get that number down then add back the minerals I want. Madison water is a pretty bad for brewing without treatment. Cheers!

 

[MN_Jay]

Sorry to dredge up my old thread but real life got in the way and I didn't brew anymore until this past weekend. This time I used one step and spring water for sanitizing, hopefully that take care of it.

I did find out though that my thermometer was reading 20 degrees too high, yes 20 degrees. I couldn't believe I never caught that before but my last 3 brews were extract so I was basically steeping the grains 20 degrees cooler than normal. Not sure if that would have an effect or not. This brew I did on Saturday was an all grain (BIAB), I'm anxious to see if I still have my infection problem or not.