Porter recipe need suggestions

[msmylie]

All, I'm going to brew up a porter for my next batch and this is what I have come up with so far for a partial mash/extract brew. I'd love to hear any suggestions or critiques.

6.0 lb NB Amber Malt Syrup
3.15 lb NB Pilsen Malt Syrup
1.0 lb Simpsons crushed black malt

3 oz. Northern Brewer Hop Pellets (60 min)
1 oz. German Tettnang Hop Pellets (15 min)

Wyeast 1098 British Ale

Plan is to steep the pound of black malt for 30 minutes at 155-160 and strain out. Then boil the malt and NB pellets for 1 hour with the fifteen minute addition of the Noble for aroma. Chill, top off, aerate, pitch, and ferment two weeks and then keg.

Anyone think this will be too harsh with a pound of Black malt? Any other suggestions appreciated.
thanks,
mfs

 

[motobrewer]

what's the AA on the northern brewer? 3oz might be over the top for a porter.

also, black malt is pretty intense, i would switch it over to 1lb chocolate, or do 1/4lb black and 1/2 - 3/4 lb chocolate.

 

[Shooter]

what's the AA on the northern brewer? 3oz might be over the top for a porter.

also, black malt is pretty intense, i would switch it over to 1lb chocolate, or do 1/4lb black and 1/2 - 3/4 lb chocolate.

I've only made one porter so far and haven't tasted it since I put it in the keg, but, based on the keg sample, I would agree with cutting the black malt and going with some chocolate in the recipe.

Also, motobrewer's point about the AA on those hops is a good one.

 

[msmylie]

NB pellets are 6-8% Too much? The original recipe I'm loosely basing this one on only called for 4 lb of Amber syrup. Since I boosted the malt by 2 pounds I though might need little bit extra bitterness.

 

[motobrewer]

i would say that's way too much. i personally wouldn't use much more than 1.5oz of 7%AA hops for bittering.

my last porter was 1.056 and i used 1.5oz 4.25%AA goldings at bittering

 

[Shooter]

That does sounds like a lot. I used 1.75oz of EKG at 5%AA on mine.

 

[msmylie]

Check out the updated recipe:

6.0 lb NB Amber Malt Syrup
3.15 lb NB Pilsen Malt Syrup
.5 lb Simpsons crushed black malt
.5 lb Simpson crushed chocolate malt

1.5 oz. Northern Brewer Hop Pellets (60 min)
1 oz. German Tettnang Hop Pellets (15 min)

Wyeast 1098 British Ale

The Pilsen malt has some carapils in it, do I need any more that that or add something to this for more body?

 

[Shooter]

Again, I'm probably not any sort of expert on the style, but that sounds closer. I put the numbers into Brewpal and it liked it as a Robust Porter. You could try 4oz of malto-dextrin if you're worried about body, but I'm not sure if it would be necessary.

 

[boo boo]

Check out the updated recipe:

6.0 lb NB Amber Malt Syrup
3.15 lb NB Pilsen Malt Syrup
.5 lb Simpsons crushed black malt
.5 lb Simpson crushed chocolate malt

1.5 oz. Northern Brewer Hop Pellets (60 min)
1 oz. German Tettnang Hop Pellets (15 min)

Wyeast 1098 British Ale

The Pilsen malt has some carapils in it, do I need any more that that or add something to this for more body?

That is still a lot of BP. I'm not a fan of it however, and my bais is showing.
I try to keep BP to under 1/4 LB.

 

[HexKrak]

Go ahead and toss 1/2 a lb of flaked barley in there for good measure, and yeah, you're pushing the calculated bitterness past style guidelines, but the actual bitterness will probably work out within an acceptable range with 1.5 oz. I might push the tettnang out to 10 min though.
I probably wouldn't use more than .25lbs of the BP in a porter, but maybe that's just me.

 

[Shooter]

My recipe was basically Jamil's from BCS. He does use 8oz of black, but also uses more chocolate and some C40 to round it out.

 

[msmylie]

Updated once again:

6.0 lb NB Amber Malt Syrup
3.15 lb NB Pilsen Malt Syrup
.25 lb Simpsons crushed black malt
.75 lb Simpson crushed chocolate malt
.05 lb flaked oats

1.5 oz. Northern Brewer Hop Pellets (60 min)
1 oz. German Tettnang Hop Pellets (10 min)

Wyeast 1098 British Ale

I cut the Tettnang hops till the last ten minutes of the boil. Changed the ratio on the BP and Chocolate malts so that using .25 of BP and .75 of chocolate. Also added .5 lb of flaked oats to round out body and add some residual sweetness. Will steep the oats with the specialty malts. I think this could be a tasty recipe. Anyone have issues with the flaked oats?

 

[Shooter]

I've never steeped oats, only used them in a mash. You may get some starch out of them if you don't mash them with some two row.

 

[msmylie]

will the starch matter that much since it will be a dark brew? I can see it causing haze problems in a lighter beer but in this one I don't think it will matter too much. Don't some kits include flaked oats to be used in steeping with specialty grains just to provide head retention as well as extra body?

 

[Shooter]

will the starch matter that much since it will be a dark brew? I can see it causing haze problems in a lighter beer but in this one I don't think it will matter too much. Don't some kits include flaked oats to be used in steeping with specialty grains just to provide head retention as well as extra body?

I don't think starch haze will be a problem. However, I'm not sure you'll get the body from the oats by steeping them.

 

[motobrewer]

i'm really not sure oats are needed. there is some carapils in the pilsen malt syrup for head retention, and munich and caramel in the amber for body

i like my porters on the low side of carb with a thin, quickly dissipating head, served at 45F.

but, these are my opinions.

 

[BendBrewer]

1.5 oz. Northern Brewer Hop Pellets (60 min)
1 oz. German Tettnang Hop Pellets (15 min)

That still looks like a bunch of hops for a porter. Are you trying to make it to style? That looks way too bitter to me.

 

[BendBrewer]

I brewed this one about 3 months ago. I upped the hops to make it more to style and still used about half of the hops that you plan on using.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f126/black-pearl-porter-ag-24243/

I went with:

.75 NB (60 min)
.5 Cascade (15 min)
.5 Tett (3 min)

I was very happy with the Porter and it was just the right amount of hops and I am a hop guy.

 

[ongreystreet]

I got a Porter in Primary right now, only used half a pound of black, and my first week sample had a coffee taste to it, so I wouldn't push it to far past 1/2 pound.

 

[Shooter]

i'm really not sure oats are needed. there is some carapils in the pilsen malt syrup for head retention, and munich and caramel in the amber for body.

I agree, without the oats, the recipe isn't too far off of the partial mash conversion I did for the BCS recipe.

I brewed this one about 3 months ago. I upped the hops to make it more to style and still used about half of the hops that you plan on using.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f126/black-pearl-porter-ag-24243/

I went with:

.75 NB (60 min)
.5 Cascade (15 min)
.5 Tett (3 min)

I was very happy with the Porter and it was just the right amount of hops and I am a hop guy.

See, now I'm looking at that thinking, "Well, that needs more hops!!"

 

[Shooter]

I got a Porter in Primary right now, only used half a pound of black, and my first week sample had a coffee taste to it, so I wouldn't push it to far past 1/2 pound.

Yeah, my sample was similar and had a strong coffee and chocolate quality to it. It could be that the higher bittering level on the hops also contributed to that perception of a slightly astringent coffee.

 

[Golddiggie]

Consider going with:
8oz chocolate malt
4-8oz roasted barley
4oz flaked barley

I would call the recipe an extract brew with specialty grains, NOT a partial mash... I would also go with some (3#) pale/extra-pale DME instead of the Pilsen LME...

If you want to do a PM, then go with some 2 Row base malt instead of some of the LME/DME...

I would also consider/suggest using Wyeast 1335 British Ale II... "A classic British ale profile with good flocculation and malty flavor characteristics. It will finish crisp, clean and fairly dry."

Another choice would be 1084 Irish Ale... "This versatile yeast ferments extremely well in dark worts. It is a good choice for most high gravity beers. Beers fermented in the lower temperature range produce a dry, crisp profile with subtle fruitiness. Fruit and complex esters will increase when fermentation temperatures are above 64°F (18°C)."

 

[msmylie]

Couple of questions,

Why the flaked barley in place of the flaked oats? Is there a noticeable difference in taste? Or is there some other quality to it? Wyeast 1335 sounds interesting...I will be fermenting at about 65-70 degrees. 1084 Irish I would enjoy using but I think it will be too warm and I'm not looking for much ester development.

Why the switch to DME instead of the syrup? What is the advantage there?

You would write off the BP malt altogether? I thought it would add an interesting twist to the brew.

Thanks,
mfs

 

[BendBrewer]

I did take the time to calculate your IBUs at 47 which is way out of range for a porter.

 

[motobrewer]

msm-

you're gonna get a million opinions and a million recipes if you keep asking for them. only way to tell for sure it to brew it up

i've noticed that once you put a recipe out for review, people will try to bring it into the center of BJCP guidelines. nothing against that, but that's just what i see.

if you want a traditional, 12B Robust Porter, we can certainly tell you how to make that.

 

[BendBrewer]

msm-

you're gonna get a million opinions and a million recipes if you keep asking for them. only way to tell for sure it to brew it up

i've noticed that once you put a recipe out for review, people will try to bring it into the center of BJCP guidelines. nothing against that, but that's just what i see.

if you want a traditional, 12B Robust Porter, we can certainly tell you how to make that.

Well, when one asks for suggestions on a recipe for a specific style of beer I think it is important to use some sort of standard as a guide. A Porter isn't some chocolate tasting dark beer. There are guidelines and if you want to make a style of beer and call it that style you should at the very least stay near the perimeters of said style.

If the OP wants to make a dark hoppy beer than I would say that the recipe looks great. But since he has stated he wants to make a Porter, I feel obligated to inform him that he isn't on the right track.

 

[motobrewer]

Well, when one asks for suggestions on a recipe for a specific style of beer I think it is important to use some sort of standard as a guide. A Porter isn't some chocolate tasting dark beer. There are guidelines and if you want to make a style of beer and call it that style you should at the very least stay near the perimeters of said style.

If the OP wants to make a dark hoppy beer than I would say that the recipe looks great. But since he has stated he wants to make a Porter, I feel obligated to inform him that he isn't on the right track.

yeah, listen, i wasn't trying to tell people not to give advice

i was just saying at some point you have to shoot the engineer.

 

[BendBrewer]

Ah.....does that make me the Monkey?

 

[msmylie]

I think what I'll do is cut back on the BP but still leave it in there. I'm also going to reduce the bittering hops to 1 oz. Not sure on the aroma hops...might leave where it is or cut back slightly. I do appreciate all the suggestions on here, that's exactly what I was looking for. I'll post a final recipe and let you guys know how it turns out.
mfs

 

[CPooley4]

My preference on a porter is to not use black malt, roasted barley, etc.. I typically stick to darker crystal/caramel and chocolate along with a good pale malt base and possibly one character grain (munich, victory, etc...). Keep IBU's somewhat tame with little flavor/aroma from them. lower on the carbonation scale and serve somewhat warm (40+).

Good luck.

cp

 

[Golddiggie]

I've produced a solid porter with using chocolate malt, roasted barley, and flaked barley. You just need to make sure you don't go too heavy with any of them...

Flaked Barley: Adds significant body to Porters and Stouts. High haze producing protein prevents use in light beers.

Flaked Oats: Adds body, mouth feel and head retention to the beer
Used in oatmeal stouts and porters
Adds substantial protein haze to light beers
Protein rest recommended unless flakes are pregelatinized

Roasted Barley: Roasted at high temperature to create a burnt, grainy, coffee like flavor.
Imparts a red to deep brown color to beer, and very strong roasted flavor.
Use 2-4% in Brown ales to add a nutty flavor, or 3-10% in Porters and Stouts for coffee flavor.

Chocolate Malt: Dark malt that gives a rich red or brown color and nutty flavor.
Use for: Brown ales, porters, some stouts
Maintains some malty flavor, not as dark as roasted malt.

You can also add some Caramel Malt, just make sure you add the ones that will give you the character you want, but stay within the style you declared. Nothing wrong with going outside a style, just be sure to say that you want to... Such as a sweet porter, or chocolate porter, or honey porter, etc...

 

[msmylie]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. I ended up making a Robust Porter extract with specialty grains that is similar to Jamil's recipe...here it is, comments welcome.

Steeped at 155-160 30 min:
1.5 lb. Simpsons Medium Crystal
.5 lb. Simpsons Black Malt
.75 lb. Simpsons Chocolate

6 Gallon Boil:
9.15 lb. NB Pilsen Malt Syrup
1.0 lb. NB Munich Malt Syrup

East Kent Goldings Hop Pellets 1.65 oz. 60 min.
East Kent Goldings Hop Pellets .75 oz. 0 min.

White Labs WLP001 California Ale

Pitched when wort was 70 degrees, OG was 1.07, fermentation began about 20 hours later. Plan to ferment about two weeks or until gravity does not change. Going to rack to five gallon better bottle to condition for couple weeks and then bottle until carbed. Tasted the sample and it was great. Loved the hop profile with the residual sweetness. Can't wait to try this. Wish I did a ten gallon batch.
mfs

 

[motobrewer]

looks solid.

 

[Shooter]

I should be tapping into my robust porter, Jamil's recipe soon, if the sample I had was anything to go on, it is going to be GOOD!!

 

[msmylie]

Have you brewed it before?

 

[msmylie]

Update on the porter

Checked gravity on 2/28/2011 and fermented out to 1.020 or about 6.5%
Flavor is excellent and has a definite chocolate flavor from the choco malt.
Wondering if it is necessary to rack to secondary and age or if tastes good now just bottle and enjoy?
mfs

 

[Golddiggie]

Give it a few more days and check the SG again...

I wouldn't rack to secondary on this. Leave it on the yeast until you're ready to bottle it up... I would plan on letting it go ~3-4 weeks on the yeast though. Since you're at only 2-1/2 weeks from the start, I'd let it ride a bit longer.

How much sugar were you planning on priming it with? Did you record the temperature the wort was fermenting at (not the air temp, the wort temp)?? That will impact how much sugar to use for priming...

 

[msmylie]

I was planning on hitting it with just 5 ounces of corn sugar and then bottling. Should I take the temp of the wort prior to racking to bottling bucket? Air temp is 72 degrees. How long would this beer usually take to finish? Since the OG was 1.07 I thought it might need to ferment out about 3-4 weeks. I'm going to do another reading on friday to see if it has changed. If there is no change should I go ahead and bottle? Or will it benefit from more time on the lees?
mfs

 

[Golddiggie]

Air temp isn't what we're looking for... It's the temp the wort was at while fermenting... Can be X degree's above ambient... Such as the cream ale I have fermenting now is in a room that's about 63F, it's temperature is about 68F. So, I'll use the 66-68F temp to figure out how much sugar I'll need to prime with.

If the porter was in a room that had an air temp of 72F for the majority, then I would guesstimate that the wort fermented around 75-80F... Which means less CO2 was trapped in the wort as it fermented. Which means you need to prime with more sugar to get the same CO2 volumes as you wanted. That being said, I tend to carbonate porters and stouts in the lower half of their range.

You can use this site to figure it out on your own: http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/brew/widgets/bp.html I would say that you'll probably be looking at using about 4oz of sugar to prime. I wouldn't use more than that.

For a brew that had an OG of 1.070, I would go at least three weeks on the yeast... Four if you can... An extra week, or two, won't do any harm. If anything the brew will get better. Taste the hydrometer sample instead of tossing it... I would suggest doing another reading after Friday, around this time next week... If it's not getting ANY better, then plan to bottle when you have the chance/time. You don't HAVE to bottle right away.

 

[msmylie]

awesome advice, thanks for your help. the first sample tasted good, but did not have the depth of flavor i was looking for in this brew. maybe just needs more time.
mfs