Black_Marsh_Brewer
Well-Known Member
Alright, so I asked bunch of questions and got no answers on the forums, so I started digging into it on my own and have figured out what is needed to make a portable GFCI for an electric brewery, and a basic understanding of how a GFCI breaker works within an electric brewery. I have decided that I am going to write down what I did and what I learned so that people may somehow benefit.
First things first I AM NOT AN ELECTRICIAN NOR DO I CLAIM TO BE... At best I am an intelligent, cautious handyman with 10 years of experience. At worst, I am a crazy drunken goofball with tools and a death wish So please, PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS ON YOUR OWN UNLESS YOU ARE QUALIFIED AND HAVE SOME CLUE ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE DOING. I am documenting my experience so that people undergoing similar issues may understand what I did. If in doubt, please seek professional help. I know I had to
Okay, so the place that I am in has a 100amp sub panel in the garage that runs some heavy machinery. In the panel is a 30amp breaker that runs a dryer outlet that is used for a welder. I have permission from my landlord to brew in the garage and use the plugin, but not to upgrade the panel. The breakers in the panel are NOT GFI. So that means I need a GFI of some sort to put in line for brewing...
So the GFI had to be three things: 1) portable; I can't leave it in place all the time, as the landlord uses the garage for his work as well. Plus I would like to take equipment I paid for with me if I leave this house. 2) Adaptable. I eventually would like to go to a full on Kal style brew-panel, so anything I use I want it to be compatible for later on. 3) Cheap. Not like cut corners accidental manslaughter cheap, but end of the day I need a solution that isnt going to leave me feeling financially molested.
So I went on the epic quest of trying to get answers about this stuff on the internet. I discovered four ways to do this. 1) Install new breaker, which is a hard no. 2) Have an professional electrician rig up a setup for me ($500.00 CAD friends and family rate), another hard no. 3) Buy an inline GFI connector, there are few companies that do this for 3-wire 240V 30amp setups, but it would be $350.00CAD shipped and its not really modular with future upgrades, gotta be a better way. 4) a DIY GFI system. I have found some pictures on other threads of people making these from Portable Spa Panels, this option potentially met all my criteria, so I started pursuing it.
So after seeing a few pictures of what other people had done, it seemed like it might work, so I decided I would try my hand at it. I did a bunch of digging and found some plans that had been laid out by a member of this board (P-J). Things kind of made sense so I kept on going and started to figure out the whys whats and hows of this project.
So I started by asking a bunch of questions and I didnt get any answers off the forums directly, only partial answers here and there. With the help of a few friends in the electrical business, the internets, and books I managed to cobble together an understanding and made it happen.
Because my brewing system is setup for 30amps, I wanted the spa panel, all the wiring and the plug-ins/outlets to be 30 amps. I wanted to make this as standard to 30 amps as possible so that I don't accidentally make a mistake with too big or small a wiring/plugs. I got on EBay and after a bit of patience I found a Square D QO 50amp GFCI plastic spa panel for 70.00USD shipped.
This panel was pretty much what I was looking for, it was rated UL and CSA, which means no worries for Canada safety standards. However, it was 50amp, and I needed a 30 amp. Problem was, it was a damn good deal and I wasnt really seeing any 30 amp panels. So this led to my first question, would it be okay to use a 50amp spa panel?
So obviously the 50amp breaker would never trip because it is has too high of a current rating. But the 50amp breaker would connect and get power from a 30amp breaker in the sub-panel. So will the 30amp breaker trip if anything connected to it overloads? After some searching and professional consultation, the answer is yes, the 30amp breaker will trip. As a result, the 50amp GFCI is solely for ground fault protection and is useable, so I bought it.
Complete parts list:
1x Square D QO 50amp 240V GFI Spa Panel (75.00 USD = ~100.00 CAD)
1 x 30a 10/4 wire dryer cord (~24.00 CAD)
2 x 3/4" strain relief cord grips and locking nuts (15.00CAD)
3ft of 10/4 SWOO neoprene coated outdoor wire (5.00 CAD)
1 x Scepter 3/4" strain relief/cord grip with assorted grips (7.00CAD)
1 x Scepter single gang FS box no hub (17.00CAD)
1 x L6-30R twist lock receptacle and cover (already had from previous apartment)
1x wire nut.
Total cost of the parts: ~$168.00 CAD
So I got things together and got to work. I started by punching two holes through the bottom of the spa panel with a 1" hole saw. The panel had punch-out marks on the outside of the panel making it easy.
From there I put a 3/4" grey strain relief through the left hole and chose the rubber sealing ferrule that fit the dryer cord. I then wired in the 4 wire dryer cord to the breaker, making sure to attach the GFI breaker Pig tail to the neutral bar (see goofy looking diagram for details) I then put in the 3/4" black strain relief on the other side, and put in the 10/4 SWOO wire in it and wired it up to the outgoing side of the panel. I had to use two different types of strain relief on the Spa Panel because the dryer cord was significantly narrower than the 10/4 SWOO neoprene wire, and needed a narrower strain relief. From there, I cut a hole in the 1 gang FS box for the second black strain relief, and ran the 10/4 SWOO into the box.
I then installed l6-30R receptacle and plate into the box. Now, some of you may have noticed that the cord into the outlet box is 4 wire, and the plug-in itself is only 3 wire. I did this because my current controller is only 3 wire (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=575199), but eventually when I upgrade my panel it will need to be 4 wire and I didn't want to have to buy the wire twice. So this begs the question; will a 4 wire GFI breaker work with only 3 wires hooked up to the plug?
Based on the wiring diagrams that I had found on the forum originally created by P-J, it seemed plausible what I was doing wasnt 1000% stupid, but I had an electrician buddy of mine walk me through how GFI's work just to be safe. Here is the simplified interpretation of what he told me - The GFI in a breaker constantly monitors the current flowing through each wire that comes out of the breaker against a set point. This is why the GFI breakers have that pigtail wire, the pigtail has something to do with the set-point. Now if any of the wires coming out of breaker managed to come loose and begin to ground out at any point along the path of the circuit that is not the normal ground, it notices this and shuts off.
So for example, if you drop a hair dryer into a bath tub, the thing wants to ground out to the water, this energizes the water, and causes bad times for anyone that happens to be in the tub. If the hair dryer in question is connected to a GFI, the GFI monitors this, senses that it is not grounding correctly and trips the breaker. Proper GFI's that are up to electrical code are capable of turning off so quickly that the electricity is shut off before the person in the tub can have a bad time.
Now in the example above we were working with an appliance that only had two monitored wires, a hot and a neutral. In our case, we have 2 hots, and a neutral being monitored. In our scenario (an electrical brew pot), if the system were to ever short and ground out to something. It would most likely be the pot itself, which would energize to the wort and metal brew pot. If this happened, anyone who happened to touch the brew pot may have difficulty being alive anymore (That's a problem for me as I like being alive where all the beer is). If we were using an e-brew system like Kal's controller, where we have all 4 wires in and 4 wires out connected, everything would easy and it would work fine. Obviously this is not the case, as there are 4 wires going into the box where the outlet is, and only 3 wires getting connected to the outlet.
It is my understanding from my electrician friend, that the breaker monitors all the lines and can run without a neutral wire connected going OUT of the breaker. In order for the GFI to work, it needs the neutral hooked up going INTO the breaker, as this is how it monitors the set-point. This makes some sense as there are items that need GFI protection that only require 240V 3 wire setup. For example, some hot water heaters, older hot tubs, Jacuzzi bathtubs, etc. So if you are going to have 4 wire going out of the spa panel to a 3 wire plug in, it needs to be somehow capped so it cannot accidentally ground itself out causing the GFI to trip. My electrician friend advised me to put a wire nut on the neutral wire and tuck it aside in the outlet box. So thats what I did.
From there, the portable panel was essentially finished, only thing left was to plug it in and test it. So I whipped out my handy electrical checking pen (a magical device that starts screaming when it detects a live wire near it) and systematically checked every point of contact one by one making sure that the breakers provided power when on and completely de-energized the system when off or tripped.
It all seems to work according to plan, so the next step is to hook up my brew controller and try it out. I will keep people posted about my progress.
Cheers,
BMB
First things first I AM NOT AN ELECTRICIAN NOR DO I CLAIM TO BE... At best I am an intelligent, cautious handyman with 10 years of experience. At worst, I am a crazy drunken goofball with tools and a death wish So please, PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS ON YOUR OWN UNLESS YOU ARE QUALIFIED AND HAVE SOME CLUE ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE DOING. I am documenting my experience so that people undergoing similar issues may understand what I did. If in doubt, please seek professional help. I know I had to
Okay, so the place that I am in has a 100amp sub panel in the garage that runs some heavy machinery. In the panel is a 30amp breaker that runs a dryer outlet that is used for a welder. I have permission from my landlord to brew in the garage and use the plugin, but not to upgrade the panel. The breakers in the panel are NOT GFI. So that means I need a GFI of some sort to put in line for brewing...
So the GFI had to be three things: 1) portable; I can't leave it in place all the time, as the landlord uses the garage for his work as well. Plus I would like to take equipment I paid for with me if I leave this house. 2) Adaptable. I eventually would like to go to a full on Kal style brew-panel, so anything I use I want it to be compatible for later on. 3) Cheap. Not like cut corners accidental manslaughter cheap, but end of the day I need a solution that isnt going to leave me feeling financially molested.
So I went on the epic quest of trying to get answers about this stuff on the internet. I discovered four ways to do this. 1) Install new breaker, which is a hard no. 2) Have an professional electrician rig up a setup for me ($500.00 CAD friends and family rate), another hard no. 3) Buy an inline GFI connector, there are few companies that do this for 3-wire 240V 30amp setups, but it would be $350.00CAD shipped and its not really modular with future upgrades, gotta be a better way. 4) a DIY GFI system. I have found some pictures on other threads of people making these from Portable Spa Panels, this option potentially met all my criteria, so I started pursuing it.
So after seeing a few pictures of what other people had done, it seemed like it might work, so I decided I would try my hand at it. I did a bunch of digging and found some plans that had been laid out by a member of this board (P-J). Things kind of made sense so I kept on going and started to figure out the whys whats and hows of this project.
So I started by asking a bunch of questions and I didnt get any answers off the forums directly, only partial answers here and there. With the help of a few friends in the electrical business, the internets, and books I managed to cobble together an understanding and made it happen.
Because my brewing system is setup for 30amps, I wanted the spa panel, all the wiring and the plug-ins/outlets to be 30 amps. I wanted to make this as standard to 30 amps as possible so that I don't accidentally make a mistake with too big or small a wiring/plugs. I got on EBay and after a bit of patience I found a Square D QO 50amp GFCI plastic spa panel for 70.00USD shipped.
This panel was pretty much what I was looking for, it was rated UL and CSA, which means no worries for Canada safety standards. However, it was 50amp, and I needed a 30 amp. Problem was, it was a damn good deal and I wasnt really seeing any 30 amp panels. So this led to my first question, would it be okay to use a 50amp spa panel?
So obviously the 50amp breaker would never trip because it is has too high of a current rating. But the 50amp breaker would connect and get power from a 30amp breaker in the sub-panel. So will the 30amp breaker trip if anything connected to it overloads? After some searching and professional consultation, the answer is yes, the 30amp breaker will trip. As a result, the 50amp GFCI is solely for ground fault protection and is useable, so I bought it.
Complete parts list:
1x Square D QO 50amp 240V GFI Spa Panel (75.00 USD = ~100.00 CAD)
1 x 30a 10/4 wire dryer cord (~24.00 CAD)
2 x 3/4" strain relief cord grips and locking nuts (15.00CAD)
3ft of 10/4 SWOO neoprene coated outdoor wire (5.00 CAD)
1 x Scepter 3/4" strain relief/cord grip with assorted grips (7.00CAD)
1 x Scepter single gang FS box no hub (17.00CAD)
1 x L6-30R twist lock receptacle and cover (already had from previous apartment)
1x wire nut.
Total cost of the parts: ~$168.00 CAD
So I got things together and got to work. I started by punching two holes through the bottom of the spa panel with a 1" hole saw. The panel had punch-out marks on the outside of the panel making it easy.
From there I put a 3/4" grey strain relief through the left hole and chose the rubber sealing ferrule that fit the dryer cord. I then wired in the 4 wire dryer cord to the breaker, making sure to attach the GFI breaker Pig tail to the neutral bar (see goofy looking diagram for details) I then put in the 3/4" black strain relief on the other side, and put in the 10/4 SWOO wire in it and wired it up to the outgoing side of the panel. I had to use two different types of strain relief on the Spa Panel because the dryer cord was significantly narrower than the 10/4 SWOO neoprene wire, and needed a narrower strain relief. From there, I cut a hole in the 1 gang FS box for the second black strain relief, and ran the 10/4 SWOO into the box.
I then installed l6-30R receptacle and plate into the box. Now, some of you may have noticed that the cord into the outlet box is 4 wire, and the plug-in itself is only 3 wire. I did this because my current controller is only 3 wire (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=575199), but eventually when I upgrade my panel it will need to be 4 wire and I didn't want to have to buy the wire twice. So this begs the question; will a 4 wire GFI breaker work with only 3 wires hooked up to the plug?
Based on the wiring diagrams that I had found on the forum originally created by P-J, it seemed plausible what I was doing wasnt 1000% stupid, but I had an electrician buddy of mine walk me through how GFI's work just to be safe. Here is the simplified interpretation of what he told me - The GFI in a breaker constantly monitors the current flowing through each wire that comes out of the breaker against a set point. This is why the GFI breakers have that pigtail wire, the pigtail has something to do with the set-point. Now if any of the wires coming out of breaker managed to come loose and begin to ground out at any point along the path of the circuit that is not the normal ground, it notices this and shuts off.
So for example, if you drop a hair dryer into a bath tub, the thing wants to ground out to the water, this energizes the water, and causes bad times for anyone that happens to be in the tub. If the hair dryer in question is connected to a GFI, the GFI monitors this, senses that it is not grounding correctly and trips the breaker. Proper GFI's that are up to electrical code are capable of turning off so quickly that the electricity is shut off before the person in the tub can have a bad time.
Now in the example above we were working with an appliance that only had two monitored wires, a hot and a neutral. In our case, we have 2 hots, and a neutral being monitored. In our scenario (an electrical brew pot), if the system were to ever short and ground out to something. It would most likely be the pot itself, which would energize to the wort and metal brew pot. If this happened, anyone who happened to touch the brew pot may have difficulty being alive anymore (That's a problem for me as I like being alive where all the beer is). If we were using an e-brew system like Kal's controller, where we have all 4 wires in and 4 wires out connected, everything would easy and it would work fine. Obviously this is not the case, as there are 4 wires going into the box where the outlet is, and only 3 wires getting connected to the outlet.
It is my understanding from my electrician friend, that the breaker monitors all the lines and can run without a neutral wire connected going OUT of the breaker. In order for the GFI to work, it needs the neutral hooked up going INTO the breaker, as this is how it monitors the set-point. This makes some sense as there are items that need GFI protection that only require 240V 3 wire setup. For example, some hot water heaters, older hot tubs, Jacuzzi bathtubs, etc. So if you are going to have 4 wire going out of the spa panel to a 3 wire plug in, it needs to be somehow capped so it cannot accidentally ground itself out causing the GFI to trip. My electrician friend advised me to put a wire nut on the neutral wire and tuck it aside in the outlet box. So thats what I did.
From there, the portable panel was essentially finished, only thing left was to plug it in and test it. So I whipped out my handy electrical checking pen (a magical device that starts screaming when it detects a live wire near it) and systematically checked every point of contact one by one making sure that the breakers provided power when on and completely de-energized the system when off or tripped.
It all seems to work according to plan, so the next step is to hook up my brew controller and try it out. I will keep people posted about my progress.
Cheers,
BMB
