pond pump and CFC?

[Billybrewer09]

I have a CFC and run it off my garden hose, with the temperature rising its getting harder to chill my 5 gal batches below 70.
I was thinking of getting a pond pump and putting in a cooler filled with ice water and pumping that through my CFC. If anyone has done this i would love to hear how it works and what size pump you used. Also if it didn't work what did you end up doing to get your wort chilled.
sorry if this has been discussed before.

 

[OneHoppyGuy]

Hey Billy, I don't do it but I know from lots of threads it's common. Do you know your water temperature? If it's 70 degrees or less you can throttle the output side of the wort on your chiller to increase surface time.

 

[Billybrewer09]

I'm not exactly sure of my water temp, i can get my wort down to 70° but it takes about 45 min with the flow restricted from the kettle and the water opened all the way. I've seen a few threads on here of guys using pond pumps but they are all using them with IC.
I may just have to live with what i got or build it and see what it gets me. I know 70° is pretty good but im worried that when the temps get hotter out I wont be able to get below 75 or so.

 

[Huaco]

I plan to do this exact thing. Being in TX our groundwater SUX as far as temps go... If you go get some sidewalk melting ice (the kind you use in winter) and disolve a bunch of that in your recirc water it will get a MUCH colder than just ice water. Something special about that specific type of salt. It is NOT table salt. DON'T EAT IT! haha...

 

[Billybrewer09]

Huaco, what size pump are you going to use? I know the trick of adding salt to water to get it colder.

 

[Huaco]

I have a pop-up pool pump I was planning to use. It can really move some water though it is not all that large.

 

[bumstigedy]

I have a somewhat similar setup that works well. I have an immersion wort chiller and recirculate the wort. I start chilling with groundwater and then switch to recirculating of ice water through the chiller to finish the job. Here's the timeline from last saturday's
180F first reading by the time i got back from turning on the water hose, finding my logbook etc...
2 min in 138F
3 min 130F
6 min 92F
switched from groundwater to ice water
2 min later 86F
4 min later 70F
9 min later 55F
15 min later 43 F; yay! pitching temperatur

you might get even better performance with a cfc

 

[Billybrewer09]

Thanks for that info bumstigedy, but i dont have the ability to recirculate my wort. I gravity feed from my kettle to the CFC straight into my carboy.
I may look for a cheap pump and see how it works just recirculating the ice water. I'm just afraid it will take to much ice to be worth it.

 

[pelipen]

I'll be doing the same thing next brew. Cooler full of frozen blocks of water, and the submersible from harbor freight. Water is cheap here, but no sense in wasting it.
Anyone ever connect the outlet side to a sprinkler? Warm water for the kids.

 

[Billybrewer09]

Pelipen, what size pump do you have?
I have an IC that i thought about using first to get the temp down a bit then kicking on the ice pump but I'm not sure what size pump to get.

 

[pelipen]

Pelipen, what size pump do you have?
I have an IC that i thought about using first to get the temp down a bit then kicking on the ice pump but I'm not sure what size pump to get.

I went with the 620 gph, since it had nearly 3x the lift as the 264. My thinking was that the amount of back pressure running through 25' of coiled hose might benefit from the higher pressure. But, I have not connected it yet to find out what the flow rate is. It did mean I spent more than I wanted.
I also plan to use this with a temp controller to chill a carboy water bath. A sort of immersion fermentation chamber on the cheap.

 

[DavidinTexas]

I really liked this idea but slowed way down when I did the following math:


BTU / lb Ice 144

BTU / lb water 1

Pounds / gallon 8.35
Number of gallons 5
Weight of Batch 41.75

Starting Temp 212
Ending Temp 80
Temp Difference 132

BTU to cool batch 5511
(Temp Difference * weight of Batch * BTU / LB)

Ice Required 38.27083333
(BTU to cool / BTU lb ice)

40 pounds of ice seems like a lot of trouble.

Has anyone actually tried this? I would love to hear the result.

 

[ETCS]

Here is a video of what I used with my old plate chiller. Now that I have the Therminator I don't need to use this method anymore. This is in the middle of last summer.

 

[Huaco]

I really liked this idea but slowed way down when I did the following math:


BTU / lb Ice 144

BTU / lb water 1

Pounds / gallon 8.35
Number of gallons 5
Weight of Batch 41.75

Starting Temp 212
Ending Temp 80
Temp Difference 132

BTU to cool batch 5511
(Temp Difference * weight of Batch * BTU / LB)

Ice Required 38.27083333
(BTU to cool / BTU lb ice)

40 pounds of ice seems like a lot of trouble.

Has anyone actually tried this? I would love to hear the result.

What everybody seems to agree on is that it is a waste of ice to use it above 100*F. Once you cross the century mark, get the ice in the water and stir it up.

 

[Billybrewer09]

David i think you just put the brakes on this plan for me. Guess ill just have to deal with slowing my chill time.

 

[MalFet]

I really liked this idea but slowed way down when I did the following math:


BTU / lb Ice 144

BTU / lb water 1

Pounds / gallon 8.35
Number of gallons 5
Weight of Batch 41.75

Starting Temp 212
Ending Temp 80
Temp Difference 132

BTU to cool batch 5511
(Temp Difference * weight of Batch * BTU / LB)

Ice Required 38.27083333
(BTU to cool / BTU lb ice)

40 pounds of ice seems like a lot of trouble.

Has anyone actually tried this? I would love to hear the result.

I use ice on most of my batches. It works fine. The trick is that you don't add the ice when the wort is at 212 degrees. Let the temps drop to 80 or so using ground water and then start recirculating five pounds of ice and just enough water to keep the system flowing.

 

[Billybrewer09]

I'm really reconsidering my plans. Im thinking ill use my IC to bring the temp down then switch on my CFC with ice water to bring down to pitch temps.

 

[pelipen]

With an IC you have the luxury of waiting to 100 F before using ice. With a CFC you cant really do that unless you circulate, which requires a pump. A no-go for us gravity folks.
40 lbs of ice doesn't really bother me. I'll freeze it in my freezer as I'm not really concerned with energy. I never claimed to be green, just don't like wasting water.

 

[Billybrewer09]

I guess i could freeze 4 gallon jugs and use them. I have plenty of freezer space.
Now i just have to figure out which pump to get. I dont want to spend alot on this project since its just for summer brewing.

 

[bumstigedy]

Fort me with the recirc IWC one 11 lb bag of ice is usually sufficient; sometimes 2 bags in the heat of the summer.

The numbers from my previous post were achieved using two of the 11 lb bags and I still had 34f water in the cooler when I was done.

Maybe you could get a cheap iwc and use that to get u to 100f and then use the Cfc with icewater for the rest of the way.

 

[DavidinTexas]

I had not though about using the hose water to do part of the cool and chilled water for the rest. I already have a quick disconnect on the hose fitting - should be easy to make a switch to "chilled" water once the bulk of the heat has been removed.

I guess that is way we like to share ideas!

I think I will give this a try when I get a good chance.

Thanks!

 

[Billybrewer09]

I'm planning on doing a double brew day friday. Hopefully i can get a pump by then and use my IC to get the temp down to a 100° then switch on my CFC with reticulated ice water to get the temp down in the low to mid 60's to pitch.
David you are right about sharing ideas. I had an idea with this but wanted to know what the community thought or had done. Homebrewers are very resourceful.

 

[Huaco]

I had not though about using the hose water to do part of the cool and chilled water for the rest. I already have a quick disconnect on the hose fitting - should be easy to make a switch to "chilled" water once the bulk of the heat has been removed.

I guess that is way we like to share ideas!

I think I will give this a try when I get a good chance.

Thanks!

I know why you homebrew... You live in Tyler. We had a family reunion last year and you can not find BEER ANYWHERE in East Texas! SOOOO frustrating!

 

[DavidinTexas]

More

Oh there are places .... 20 miles away ... but places.

However, the truth is I like running process myself and I can make what I like - and not be limited to what I can find.

Plus it is a good excuse to tinker with stuff ....

 

[inigomontoya]

This is way overkill, but for me not having to buy adapters for my immersion chiller and just use existing hoses was more beneficial. http://www.harborfreight.com/16-horsepower-submersible-utility-pump-68422.html

I just put it in a 6 dollar party tub (with the rope handles) filled with water and ice, works for me in the Phoenix summers to cool down 5 gal batches in about 15 minutes.

 

[Billybrewer09]

Well i bought a 264gph pump at harbor freight. I will try and get it hooked up in the next couple days to see what kind of flow rate it get through my CFC. i can use my IC also if i dont think the flow rate will be enough

 

[neckbeardbeer]

I used the submersible utility pump approach. $45 on eBay for a 1/6hp. I use a quick disconnect to switch easily from the garden hose to the pump. I throw the really hot initial water on the ground then start to recirculate after a couple of minutes. Shoe box plastic boxes from target work great for making huge ice cubes. I use a garbage can which doubles as a storage container for my pump and burner.

 

[DavidinTexas]

I used the submersible utility pump approach. $45 on eBay for a 1/6hp. I use a quick disconnect to switch easily from the garden hose to the pump. I throw the really hot initial water on the ground then start to recirculate after a couple of minutes. Shoe box plastic boxes from target work great for making huge ice cubes. I use a garbage can which doubles as a storage container for my pump and burner.

This sounds like a very workable suggestion - would you be able to post a picture? Thanks

 

[vinper]

works great for me , fill the cooler with tap water a just run it to the grass till wort cools down to tap temp then then throw the ice in cooler and recirculate 5 gallons cooled in about 8 min

 

[oakbarn]

We use a 1/3 hp pump and pump 48 degree water through a Therminator. We have to slow the flow of the Wort in the summer. One thing we have found is to cool the wort with ground water for about 10 minutes recycling back into BK then switch to the Therminator. We did this with an IC before we obtained the plate chiller, and the plate chiller was much faster. In the Winter in Dallas, we just use the ground water.

 

[oakbarn]

I get the 48 degree water starting with about 80 degree water (35 or so gallons) and put frozen water 1 gal jugs (about 10) and about 30 minutes before I need the cool water. We use a large trash can.

 

[DavidinTexas]

I think I want to try that with a quick disconnect so that I can easily switch between the hose (ground water) and the iced water from the pump. Save more time and reduce the chance of infection.

THANKS!

 

[scottland]

I just bought the 264gph pump from harbor freight for $18. I can tell you that it will provide plenty of flow to recirculate water through my CFC

 

[Billybrewer09]

I just tried my 264 pump..it pumped 5 gallons in 5 min... i hope with ice water it will get my wort down to the mid 60's in about 20 min. Dont know if thats realistic or not.

 

[scottland]

I tested mine through 15ft of silicone tubing at about 1.5ft of head, and it filled a gallon consistently at 22-24seconds, so around 150gh, or 2.5gal per minute. That's MORE than I'll need for my cfc

In terms of your chilling speed, that all depends on how much wort you want to cool, and your inlet temp. But yes, I'd you are chilling 5 gallons with recirculated ice water, under 20 minutes is doable. Hell, you could slow the outlet flow rate, and chill it in a single pass

 

[Billybrewer09]

I tested mine through 6 foot of 1/2" garden hose at 3' head.
i am only chilling 5.5 gallons on a gravity feed system. If i open my valve all the way it takes about 10 min to run it through my CFC. So with ice water and my valvehalf way open it should be doable

 

[JeffBham]

I use my IC to get it down to approx the 100 degree mark as people posted before, then switch over to using my march pump from my HLT filled with ice cubes made in old milk jugs (well cleaned) and just recirc it. This works well for me as I already have the pump setup on the quick connects and I don't think that I am using that much energy to freeze the "ice cubes" However, you do have to plan a few days in advance and have enough space in your freezer.

 

[dbrewski]

I bought a Beckett 350 gallon per hour submersible pump to use with my IC. I also have a CFC but I have never tried using the pond pump with it. The pump puts out a decent flow of water however! I bet it would work. My model is no longer available but I got it off amazon for under $30. Search for "submersible pump".

as one poster already said, use tap water to get the wort down quite a bit before using the ice water or you will need 20lbs!

BTW if your last name is really "Brewer" then that's something we share.

 

[Billybrewer09]

Im doing a double brew day Friday, i will try and chill the first batch with just ice water and if that does not give me the results i want i will use my IC first on the second batch.
dbrewski, my last name is not "Brewer". My user name is just what my friends that like to drink my beer call me. Lol

 

[dbrewski]

Ah well, the search for distant relatives continues...