Pliny the Elder recipe questions

[paradoc]

Kegged my first batch of this tonight. The hydrometer sample was so good, I drank TWO of them. This is by far the best beer I've ever brewed. It is a hop bomb, but great balance. I can't wait to taste this when it is carb'd. My final numbers were:

OG: 1.072
FG: 1.008
ABV: 8.5%

I used Safale 05 yeast for this batch.

I'll be ordering more hops next week for my second batch of this... I plan to keep it as a regular.

 

[Woolseal]

I will be going with Danstar Nottingham Dry Yeast. Anyone brew the Pliny with this yeast?

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

You followed a different recipe though, right? How did it compare to the one Vinny released in Zymurgy (2-row, w/ small amounts of crystal, carapils and corn sugar, columbus, centennial and simcoe)?

I used Dude's Pliney the Bastid recipe, that is in the Recipe section. The one thing I did different was I wound up using Chinook instead of Warrior, for Bittering. So that was probably enough to throw the whole thing off. I'll have to go check out the Zymurgy recipe.

 

[BrewMeister49]

anyone know tasty mcdoles recipe for pliny clone? And what is the final hop bill for pliny?

 

[paradoc]

Tapped my first batch of Pliny tonight (with modifications noted in my first post), and must say it is very, very good. The best beer I've brewed by far. I was lucky enough to have a pint of the real thing on tap 2 days ago, and the flavor of my batch is very, very close to the original. About the only difference I note is the dry hop aroma isn't as strong in mine. It has nice hop aroma, but not the nose-bomb that the real thing had. I'll have to experiment with my next batch. This is going to be a regular in my kegerator I think.

@Brewmeister49, I'm not sure whether it is kosher to post the entire recipe here on this site. It was published in Zymurgy last month. Does anyone know if it is OK to repost recipe from Zymurgy?

 

[samc]

@Brewmeister49, I'm not sure whether it is kosher to post the entire recipe here on this site. It was published in Zymurgy last month. Does anyone know if it is OK to repost recipe from Zymurgy?

Recipes are generally not copyright protected. Only the additional info or unique processes added might be covered. Just posting a list of ingredients is done all the time.

 

[cercueil]

I just got this months Zymurgy and it looks like they made a mistake in the grain bill recipe to Pliny. I don't know the specifics off hand but it looks like they added about 2 more lbs of 2 row and the specialty grains went up slightly. I already bought my ingredients though

 

[bdnoona]

Tapped my first batch of Pliny tonight (with modifications noted in my first post), and must say it is very, very good. The best beer I've brewed by far. I was lucky enough to have a pint of the real thing on tap 2 days ago, and the flavor of my batch is very, very close to the original. About the only difference I note is the dry hop aroma isn't as strong in mine. It has nice hop aroma, but not the nose-bomb that the real thing had. I'll have to experiment with my next batch. This is going to be a regular in my kegerator I think.

I'm so glad to hear this. I'm doing a 10G on Sunday. If it's close to the original, it will be permanent fixture on my keezer as well. :rockin:

I wonder what the deal was with the nose, or lack there of. Were your hops old perhaps?

 

[paradoc]

I wonder what the deal was with the nose, or lack there of. Were your hops old perhaps?

My hops were fresh, but I used pellet instead of whole. There are a couple of possibilities I think may contribute:
1) I have an immersion chiller that doesn't work very well... it takes me about 30 minutes to cool a batch. So my flameout hops may be contributing more to flavor than aroma. I'm planning to get a plate-chiller soon
2) I suspect Vinny is using hop-back or other techniques in his commercial batches to help with hop aroma
3) Because I'm at high altitude, the boiling temps are significantly lower, and I'm told hop utilization is a bit (10-20%) lower. That should affect bittering more than aroma hops, but might contribute a bit.
4) The original recipe printed in Zymurgy was scaled for a 5 gallon batch by mistake. I scaled the grain for a larger batch, but I did NOT increase the hops. If someone has the tech talk email from AHA that corrected the recipe, if you can tell us if the hop-bill was also increased? For my next batch, I may go ahead and increase the hops too.

Had a dinner party last night... and this was by far the most popular beer I served. One friend stated it was the "best beer I've ever tasted"!

I'll go ahead and edit the original posting and add the hop bill to it when I get a chance.

Jim

 

[fineexampl]

I'm brewing this now. My extract version, based on that in Zymurgy, is using 9lbs LME plus another .5lb of DME i had kicking around. I decided to sacrifice a bag of priming sugar so the .5lb is up my 1.5oz or so. Also, i had one of the specialty malts mixed with another malt from an abandoned recipe, so i kept that in and added the .5lb of crystal on top of that. Hops are exactly as listed in the issue.

 

[bdnoona]

Kegged my first batch of this tonight. The hydrometer sample was so good, I drank TWO of them. This is by far the best beer I've ever brewed. It is a hop bomb, but great balance. I can't wait to taste this when it is carb'd. My final numbers were:

OG: 1.072
FG: 1.008
ABV: 8.5%

I used Safale 05 yeast for this batch.

I'll be ordering more hops next week for my second batch of this... I plan to keep it as a regular.

How quickly did you hit FG? I also used Safale 05. It is currently about nine days old and my current gravity is at 1.013 (OG was 1.068) and 7.2% abv. I assume it'll slip a few more points, but I doubt it'll get down to 1.008 which is what I need for the targeted 8% abv. Either way, it smells amazing already. I've never had so much hop aroma from a fermenter while this beast was bubbling. My basement smelled like a hop garden.

 

[paradoc]

How quickly did you hit FG? I also used Safale 05. It is currently about nine days old and my current gravity is at 1.013 (OG was 1.068) and 7.2% abv. I assume it'll slip a few more points, but I doubt it'll get down to 1.008 which is what I need for the targeted 8% abv.

I was at 1.016 at 5 days, when I did my first dry hop addition.
I didn't check gravity again until I kegged it after 25 days, it was 1.008

It is so good... I'm brewing my second batch tomorrow

 

[bdnoona]

I was at 1.016 at 5 days, when I did my first dry hop addition.
I didn't check gravity again until I kegged it after 25 days, it was 1.008

It is so good... I'm brewing my second batch tomorrow

Awesome. I plan on not checking again until it's kegged in two weeks. I had similar results on my Vortex I clone that dropped like this when using S-05, with the same mash temp as Pliny and also a corn sugar addition too. Thanks for the reply.

Brian

 

[paradoc]

OK... here it is. The full recipe including the hops additions for Pliny the Elder. This is reposted from the original recipe provided by Vinnie Cilurzo in the July/August 2009 edition of Zymurgy. (You really should subscribe to Zymurgy... it is a good mag!)

NOTE: As several posters have noted, the original recipe in the magazine was scaled incorrectly. AHA confirmed the error in a tech talk email after the magazine was printed. They scaled it for a 5 gallon, instead of a 6 gallon batch. I'm posting the original recipe here, with my proposed modifications to the grain bill noted below. Others have proposed slightly different modifications to the grain bill. You can read the rest of the thread for their suggestions if you would like.

Ingredients:
****ORIGINAL GRAIN BILL (FOR 5 GALLON BATCH)****
11.0 lb Two-Row pale malt
0.5 lb Crystal 45 malt
0.5 lb Carapils malt
0.4 lb Dextrose (corn) sugar
****SEE BELOW FOR A PROPOSED MODIFIED GRAIN BILL****
3.50 oz Columbus* 13.9% AA 90 min
0.75 oz Columbus*13.9% AA 45 min
1.00 oz Simcoe 12.3% AA 30 min
1.00 oz Centennial 8.0% AA 0 min
2.50 oz Simcoe 12.3% AA 0 min
1.00 oz Columbus* 13.9% AA Dry hop 12-14 days
1.00 oz Centennial 9.1% AA Dry hop 12-14 days
1.00 oz Simcoe 12.3% AA Dry hop 12-14 days
0.25 oz Columubus* 13.9% AA Dry hop last 5 days
0.25 oz Centennial 9.1% AA Dry hop last 5 days
0.25 oz Simcoe 12.3% AA Dry hop last 5 days
*Can substitute Tomahawk/Zeus for Columbus

White labs WLP001 California Ale or Wyeast 1056 American Ale

OG 1.070
FG 1.011
IBU's a lot! (90-95 according to recipe)
ABV 8-8.5%
SRM 7

Directions: Mash at 151-152 for an hour. Mash out at 170F and sparge. Collect 8 gallons run off, stir in dextrose, and bring to boil. Ad hops as indicated. After boil, chill to 67F and transfer to fermenter. Pitch 2 packets yeast or yeast starter and aerate well. Ferment at 67F until fermentation subsides, then rach to secondary. Add first set of dry hops and age 7-9 days, then add second set of dry hops. Age 5 more days then bottle or keg.

****MY PROPOSED MODIFIED GRAIN BILL****
As noted above, the original recipe was misprinted for a 5 gallon, rather than a 6 gallon batch. I increased the grain bill by 33% to account for 1) my relatively low efficiency of 65-70% and 2) I started with an 8 gallon boil so that I would account for the extra hop losses for the huge hop bill. I've brewed two batches with the grain bill below and started the boil with 8 gallons each time, and ended up with 6.5 gallons into the fermenter, with an OG of exactly 1.072 each time.
15.0 lb Two-Row (I used Maris Otter)
0.66 lb Crystal 45 malt
0.66 lb Carapils malt
0.5 lb Dextrose (corn) sugar

Thanks to Vinnie for a great beer!

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

That hop bill is way different than what I did on mine. No Chinook and no Mash Hops, and quite a bit less dry hopping as well.

How does the recipe compare to the real deal?

 

[bdnoona]

That hop bill is way different than what I did on mine. No Chinook and no Mash Hops, and quite a bit less dry hopping as well.

How does the recipe compare to the real deal?

It should be spot on. It was the official recipe released by the actual brewer. There are also tasting notes somewhere a few pages back in this thread regarding his first batch.

 

[Bsquared]

It should be spot on. It was the official recipe released by the actual brewer. There are also tasting notes somewhere a few pages back in this thread regarding his first batch.

That is the hopping schedule my brother and I used, (separate batches) and we both concur, it's really close. I just got done carbonating mine and now am letting in age for a little while. I think It will get better with a little time, but it is an awesome beer right now.

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

It should be spot on. It was the official recipe released by the actual brewer. There are also tasting notes somewhere a few pages back in this thread regarding his first batch.

I ask because this recipe Pliny The Bastid claims to be straight from Vinnie as well.

 

[paradoc]

I ask because this recipe Pliny The Bastid claims to be straight from Vinnie as well.

The recipe above came directly from Zymurgy, and according to Vinnie is the recipe for Pliny the Elder. I'm not sure, but suspect either the recipe has evolved over time, or the "Bastid" was a variation on the recipe (hence the name). I suspect most (or all) brewers modify their recipes from time to time to account for availability of ingredients. If you check out the Russian River website, you will see they post a bottle-log showing how various batches of their brews have changed over time.
Russian River Brewing Co. Bottle Log

Either way... I'm enjoying a glass now

 

[BierreNoix]

Paradoc, et. all, thank you for all the info on brewing Pliny.... I can't wait to try this recipe as I really love pliny. Question : do you guys have a good source for bulk purchase of Simcoe and Columbus hops?
Hopsdirect doesn't seem to sell Simcoe ....though they do sell Columbus whole and pellet though not at the moment. I am a whole hops type-- but Simcoe only seems to only come in pellet form?

Regards

Beer nut

 

[bdnoona]

Paradoc, et. all, thank you for all the info on brewing Pliny.... I can't wait to try this recipe as I really love pliny. Question : do you guys have a good source for bulk purchase of Simcoe and Columbus hops?
Hopsdirect doesn't seem to sell Simcoe ....though they do sell Columbus whole and pellet though not at the moment. I am a whole hops type-- but Simcoe only seems to only come in pellet form?

Regards

Beer nut

Nikobrew is where I got mine. I'm going to have to order again soon too if this Pliny is spot on. Kegging tomorrow.
Simcoe 1lb (2007 crop) It's actually 2008 crop, disregard that old header.

He's a supporter of HBT too.

 

[paradoc]

Question : do you guys have a good source for bulk purchase of Simcoe and Columbus hops?

I got my Simcoe pellets from Nikobrew.com also. So far... I've only brewed this with pellet hops. But I'm about to order a bunch of 2009 whole hops from Puterbaugh Farms (hopsdirect.com) and will look forward to seeing the differences in flavor. Puterbaugh has Columbus and Centennial in whole hops, but not Simcoe. Looks like Freshops.com does have 2009 Simcoe whole hops listed on their website, but a bit more per pound than Puterbaugh charges.

It will be interesting also to see how much hop-loss there is with the whole versus the pellet hops. As others have pointed out... this is a HUGE hop bill for whole hops. I suspect I will lose at least another half gallon... but hope that is worth it for the better flavor!

Just did the second dry hop addition to my latest batch and it came out with FG of 1.002 and 9.1% ABV Hydrometer sample tasted MIGHTY-FINE! Very clean flavor, not that heavy/syrup flavor that many barley wines and high alcohol beers have.

Cheers!

 

[fineexampl]

I bottled my Pliny clone this morning and took a taste test. I have to say, this is some tasty ****!. Not as "strong" as i'd hoped for, but damn will this be drinkable once it's aged. I'll test a bottle after a week or so to see how carbonation is doing, but the preliminary was positive. The official unveiling will be at my wedding, so we'll see if i'm doing all this brewing correctly at that point. The simcoe hops really shine through on this one IMO. Next step is to make a pilgrimage to PA to find some authentic Pliny and compare them.

good source of info in this thread BTW. it helped me out a lot. Thanks everyone!

 

[paradoc]

I bottled my Pliny clone this morning and took a taste test. I have to say, this is some tasty ****!. Not as "strong" as i'd hoped for, but damn will this be drinkable once it's aged.

I'll look forward to your taste test once it is done... and congrats on your wedding! I would be happy to attend a reception where this was on tap!

Couple of questions...
Did you use the modified grain bill or the original?
When you say not as "strong", can you be more specific? Not as strong in alcohol, or not as strong in hop flavor?

I think next time I brew this, I'm going to scale the hops up too. When I've had the real Pliny from the brewery... it is really a hop bomb both in flavor and aroma. I suspect my first two batches with the increased volume and grain bill but not increasing the hops I was underhopping a bit.

Jim

 

[Bsquared]

I've had mine in the keg clearing for the last couple weeks, and have sneaked some tastes, and is supper good, though I did not quite get to what Pliny is, my dry hopping schedule was not the same.

Did any one listen to last Sundays session on dry hopping? I was half ass listening at work, and they where talking about pliny, and said that they use hop extracts in the brewery. This might make it a tough one to replicate exactly with just dry hopping. But I really like my Batch, I can't wait to drink it! but have to wait for its debut late October.

I think adding the Corn sugar to dry it out really helps with the bitterness of the beer.

 

[fineexampl]

I'll look forward to your taste test once it is done... and congrats on your wedding! I would be happy to attend a reception where this was on tap!

Couple of questions...
Did you use the modified grain bill or the original?
When you say not as "strong", can you be more specific? Not as strong in alcohol, or not as strong in hop flavor?

I think next time I brew this, I'm going to scale the hops up too. When I've had the real Pliny from the brewery... it is really a hop bomb both in flavor and aroma. I suspect my first two batches with the increased volume and grain bill but not increasing the hops I was underhopping a bit.

Jim

Thanks!

Well the funny thing about the grain bill was that i used what i had on hand which, coincidentally, worked out to be pretty much spot on with the modifications other posters had mentioned. I had a pound of mixed specialty malt and obviously couldn't separate the grains. So, since one of the grains was correct, i picked up half pound of the other malt i needed and included that. I also added more Simcoe since i had some whole leaf to spare.

The alcohol taste wasn't as high as i was expecting, and that's good. I want people to enjoy it and not feel alcohol too heavily on the palate. By "not as strong" i just mean that i was half expecting to have brewed up an Double Bastard strength ale, not knowing anything about Pliny. It is strong in that it's a hop lover's dream, and it's strong in the hop flavor/aroma.

I'll report back in once i have some. Maybe in a week or so once carbonation sets in.

 

[bdnoona]

I sampled my batch of this for the first time last night. It is a huge hop bomb, but not quite as good as the real thing. I have to agree with earlier complaints about slight lacking in the hop aroma in my version, that is present in the real McCoy. Slightly disappointing, but still a tremendous beer that I'm happy to have on tap. This will probably be gone in a week, easily.

 

[zman]

I did the recipe from Zymurgy. Mine is bottled and ready. I had a fellow homebrewer try it and he liked it alot but thought it was a tad overcarbed and a tad more bitter than Pliny. I think it may be overcarbed but not 100% on that. I did not any any finings other than Irish moss so mine is a bit cloudy but still yummy

 

[paradoc]

It is a huge hop bomb, but not quite as good as the real thing. I have to agree with earlier complaints about slight lacking in the hop aroma in my version, that is present in the real McCoy.

I'll be brewing this again in a week or so... just got 4 pounds of fresh 2009 hops for the next batch

I'm going to keep the bittering hops the same, but bump the dry hops by about 20% for my bigger batch size and to try and really bring out the aroma. I will probably do the second dry hop addition in the keg. That's the fun of being able to brew it yourself, right?

 

[paradoc]

Batch 3 is in the fermentor. I increased the flameout and dry hops by about 20% to see if I can reproduce the hop aroma of the real thing. I'll post the results here in a few weeks. Also used fresh hops for most of the hops in the boil. My hop bag was like a bowling ball when I pulled it out of the kettle. My efficiency jumped to about 80% on this batch too, so my OG was a bit higher than expected at 1.073.