Double IPA Pliny the Elder Clone

[Jeffro74]

Thanks! I will certainly do that.

... and I bought all the ingredients a-la-carte from Midwest Brewing's warehouse today. Just over $62.00... but seeing as the kit from Austin was over $70, I will fool myself into thinking I got a "deal"

 

[springtime]

Had a tasting last night with the original Pliny the Elder and my AHB Pliny kit. Very close in nose and taste. Color was off a bit. The AHB was certainly darker. Both had the grapefruit, piney smells and tastes. The original maybe a bit more floral. It was bottled 12/20/12. Very fresh and my clone is about 2 months old. I'm sure this plays some factor. I have another batch in the primary now. Will be dry hopping this weekend. I would say Pliny the elder is as good as it gets. I would also say its safe to say the AHB pliny can go head to head with almost any commercial iipa out there.

 

[wobdee]

Are the hops whole hops or pellets?

 

[Jeffro74]

I'm doing a combo platter from what was available at the LHBS. Actually, the only whole hops I am using is 1oz of Centennial in the dry hop.

I'm not certain it matters, as I think someone in this thread mentioned Vinnie using hop extract for the original (or at least what he's brewing now). Someone can feel free to contest that, though.

Brewing my batch tomorrow... pretty darn excited for something I won't really taste until a month from now

 

[wobdee]

I'm just a little confused with the IBU's and the kinds of hops used. When I punch in the OP recipie with pellets hops into my Promash the IBU's are too high. Guess I'll just tone it down a tad.

 

[fifthcircle]

Don't "tone it down"!!! The IBU in brew software is theoretical. From my understanding there is a saturation limit, and its nearly impossible to get over 100IBU into the actual beer.

Brew it per the recipe. Its good.

 

[mooshimanx]

I'm just a little confused with the IBU's and the kinds of hops used. When I punch in the OP recipie with pellets hops into my Promash the IBU's are too high. Guess I'll just tone it down a tad.

Don't tone it down. I used 17% AA Columbus and used all 3.50 oz. @ 90 min. even though the recipe specifies 14% Columbus and it came out extremely similar to the commercial beer. You aren't going to end up with 300 IBUs, that's just theoretical; for one, fermentation scrubs out a lot of the IBUs and second, the amount of bitterness in theory doesn't actually get into the beer, it tends to top out around 100 IBU which is correct for this style.

 

[wobdee]

Ok, thanks, I'll try the recipes as is.

 

[Silentnoiz]

I just brewed a 10-gallon batch of this on Friday. I followed the recipe from the Zymurgy article in the July/August 2009 issue found on page 25 that Vinnie Cilurzo (owner and brewmaster at Russian River Brewing Co. in Santa Rosa, CA) wrote on this brew (link to a pdf in post #14 https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f69/piney-elder-clone-296940/index2.html#post4102273).

I followed the recipe except for a few things (I thought I'd have a lower than 75% efficiency): I used 1.25# of C40, 1.25# of Carapils, 1.8# Corn Sugar, and 1.5# extra of 2-row. I used all pellets in the BK, and will be dry-hopping with leaf.

This is the first time I've really nailed everything on a brew-day. My mash was dead on at 151 for the duration (thanks HERMS), I batch sparged to get a total of 14 gallons in the BK (figuring my typical ~2 gallons of boil-off in a 90 minute boil), and arrived at an OG of 1.074. I referenced MrMalty and did a 2.5L starter on a stir plate from 2 vials.

I'll be doing all of the dry-hopping in the primary, will do a closed transfer to kegs, and do a set-and-forget force carb. I'll report back in 4-5 weeks when I tap this. So far, the aroma of the ferment smells fantastic! I'm stoked! :rockin:

The ONLY thing that went slightly wrong, was that after chilling from CFC to the fermenter (14.5 conical), my buddy was about to seal it up when he dropped the 3psi pressure-safety weight into the full fermenter. :smack: So we got out the PVC elbow glove (lots of jokes ensued), sanitized the glove, and fished it out. Something always happens on brew day.

How many volumes of CO2 are you all carb'ing to? Style says in the 1.5-2.3 range.

 

[mooshimanx]

I just brewed a 10-gallon batch of this on Friday. I followed the recipe from the Zymurgy article in the July/August 2009 issue found on page 25 that Vinnie Cilurzo (owner and brewmaster at Russian River Brewing Co. in Santa Rosa, CA) wrote on this brew (link to a pdf in post #14 https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f69/piney-elder-clone-296940/index2.html#post4102273).

I followed the recipe except for a few things (I thought I'd have a lower than 75% efficiency): I used 1.25# of C40, 1.25# of Carapils, 1.8# Corn Sugar, and 1.5# extra of 2-row. I used all pellets in the BK, and will be dry-hopping with leaf.

This is the first time I've really nailed everything on a brew-day. My mash was dead on at 151 for the duration (thanks HERMS), I batch sparged to get a total of 14 gallons in the BK (figuring my typical ~2 gallons of boil-off in a 90 minute boil), and arrived at an OG of 1.074. I referenced MrMalty and did a 2.5L starter on a stir plate from 2 vials.

I'll be doing all of the dry-hopping in the primary, will do a closed transfer to kegs, and do a set-and-forget force carb. I'll report back in 4-5 weeks when I tap this. So far, the aroma of the ferment smells fantastic! I'm stoked! :rockin:

The ONLY thing that went slightly wrong, was that after chilling from CFC to the fermenter (14.5 conical), my buddy was about to seal it up when he dropped the 3psi pressure-safety weight into the full fermenter. :smack: So we got out the PVC elbow glove (lots of jokes ensued), sanitized the glove, and fished it out. Something always happens on brew day.

How many volumes of CO2 are you all carb'ing to? Style says in the 1.5-2.3 range.

I carb to ~2.3 volumes. Last I read the style guidelines for both Imperial and American IPA are 2.2-2.7 and the commercial beer is for sure something in that range.

 

[Jeffro74]

Doing the DME version and just took a gravity reading after a week (and to add the dry hops)... OG was 1.071... it's at 1.022 now. What should the target be!? ... and what do I absolutely need to wait till before I bottle?

Here's a pic of the culprit..

 

[LAbrewer]

Doing the DME version and just took a gravity reading after a week (and to add the dry hops)... OG was 1.071... it's at 1.022 now. What should the target be!? ... and what do I absolutely need to wait till before I bottle?

Here's a pic of the culprit..

Supposed to be around 1.010 but since you did a high gravity from extract, you may be at final right now. Did you add the dextrose? Wait 2 weeks of dryhopping.

 

[mooshimanx]

The target FG should be 1.012-1.014. In the future if you find you are consistently getting low attenuation from extract, I would either switch your extract brand/find fresher extract OR increase the amount of dextrose you are using and slightly lower the extract to compensate.

 

[Jeffro74]

Add the dextrose?! Was that the corn sugar at the end of the boil?...

What might my options be to get it drier at this point?.. or do I just go with it?

 

[Silentnoiz]

Add the dextrose?! Was that the corn sugar at the end of the boil?...

What might my options be to get it drier at this point?.. or do I just go with it?

The Dextrose is corn sugar, and it was (according to VC's recipe) to be added between collecting runoff and bringing to boil (so for the entire boil).

I say just go with it, it'll be fine, maybe just a bit on the sweeter side, which I actually like.

 

[Silentnoiz]

I'm at 8 days in the fermenter. I took a SG, and I'm at 1.012. :rockin:
It tasted really solid, although I'm surprised it wasn't actually more hoppy.
I bottom-dumped and rinsed the yeast.
I dry hopped 6oz of leaf (10 gallon batch) into one muslin hop bag (barely fit!).

So, the recipe calls for 12-14 days for the first dry hop, and 5 days for the second dry hop.

Question: When I do the second dry hop, should I remove the first dry hop, or leave it there (risking grassy notes?)?

 

[mooshimanx]

I'm at 8 days in the fermenter. I took a SG, and I'm at 1.012. :rockin:
It tasted really solid, although I'm surprised it wasn't actually more hoppy.
I bottom-dumped and rinsed the yeast.
I dry hopped 6oz of leaf (10 gallon batch) into one muslin hop bag (barely fit!).

So, the recipe calls for 12-14 days for the first dry hop, and 5 days for the second dry hop.

Question: When I do the second dry hop, should I remove the first dry hop, or leave it there (risking grassy notes?)?

The directions from Vinny himself state that they simply rouse the first dry hop when adding the second. The impression I get is that Vinnie is more concerned with vegetal flavors from boiling a lot of hop material (this is why he uses hop extract according to Stan Hieronymous's new book) rather than dry hopping.

Add the dextrose?! Was that the corn sugar at the end of the boil?...

What might my options be to get it drier at this point?.. or do I just go with it?

Yes, dextrose = corn sugar. (Note that you can realistically just use table sugar without any practical difference). I wasn't really suggesting you could do anything about it now, I was just suggesting you could up your simple sugars if attenuation is a problem.

The other thing is that a week doesn't necessarily mean fermentation is done. Try upping the fermentation temperature and see if you can shave a few points off. Anything under 1.018 or so will be acceptable, I think.

 

[Larso]

I'm just a little confused with the IBU's and the kinds of hops used. When I punch in the OP recipie with pellets hops into my Promash the IBU's are too high. Guess I'll just tone it down a tad.

Listened to the Stan Hieronymous beersmith podcast last night and he was saying that perception(if I remember correctly) maxes out your perception of bitterness at about 60 IBUs and that you'd actually detect very little difference between 60 and 100 IBUs. Interesting! Might buy his new book

 

[frisbee91]

I brewed this last month using Vinnie's recipe, except I substituted Amarillo hops for some of the Simcoe in the boil (because I had them left over). It came out great! One of the best beers I've made. I highly recommend reading Vinnie's article. It's got some great tips.

 

[fifthcircle]

Listened to the Stan Hieronymous beersmith podcast last night and he was saying that perception(if I remember correctly) maxes out your perception of bitterness at about 60 IBUs and that you'd actually detect very little difference between 60 and 100 IBUs. Interesting! Might buy his new book

That is interesting. When I drink mine, I think, every time, that there is no way it could be more than 60 or 70 IBU. I know there is more there, but it just doesn't "feel" like it.

 

[krietema]

I'm planning on brewing up the extract version here in a couple of weeks. Vinnie's extract version calls for a full boil, topping it up to 8 gallons and ending at 6. I've got a couple of questions regarding this:

1. Will 8 actually boil down to 6 in 90 min? Just don't want anything diluted. Forgive my noobness with this question (and all of my questions!)

2. I don't have a 10-gallon kettle to do a full boil, but I want to get maximum hop utilization. Would having a separate kettle and simply adding half of the hops to straight up boiling water at the same intervals as my wort kettle and then dumping both batches into the primary together have a similar effect?
3. I'm assuming I can't actually do that, so any reason I shouldn't just do two, simultaneous half-batches and dump into the primary together?

 

[LAbrewer]

2 gal boil off is high especially if inside. I boil off about 1.5 gal in 90 min outside.

 

[batty]

3. I'm assuming I can't actually do that, so any reason I shouldn't just do two, simultaneous half-batches and dump into the primary together?

I regularly boil off a little less than 1.5 gal on my stove top (with heater element assist). I don't see why it would be an issue to split into two pots and boil both side by side.. just a bit more of a pain in chilling.

 

[Silentnoiz]

I'm on day 18 in the fermenter, day 10 on the first dry-hop. It has been sitting at a pretty steady 68-69F.

Every once in a while, maybe a couple times a day, I happen to hear a bubble exit the blow-off. What is going on? Is this still fermenting? Or am I looking at a possible infection? I can't see inside, it is a SS conical. But I'll be doing the second dry-hop in 2 days, so I'll be able to see inside when I do that.

I know...RDWHAHB...but this 10-gal batch isn't cheap, and of course I'm looking forward to consuming this liquid gold.

 

[mooshimanx]

I'm on day 18 in the fermenter, day 10 on the first dry-hop. It has been sitting at a pretty steady 68-69F.

Every once in a while, maybe a couple times a day, I happen to hear a bubble exit the blow-off. What is going on? Is this still fermenting? Or am I looking at a possible infection? I can't see inside, it is a SS conical. But I'll be doing the second dry-hop in 2 days, so I'll be able to see inside when I do that.

I know...RDWHAHB...but this 10-gal batch isn't cheap, and of course I'm looking forward to consuming this liquid gold.

Its probably just off-gassing of dissolved CO2. Dry hops provide a lot of nucleation sites; I get a few bubbles every day or so after I start adding dry hops.

 

[Silentnoiz]

Its probably just off-gassing of dissolved CO2. Dry hops provide a lot of nucleation sites; I get a few bubbles every day or so after I start adding dry hops.

Ah, very good to know, thanks for the reply.

That makes sense, when I tasted the sample from the hydrometer reading, there was definitely some gas in solution.

 

[autiger]

brewed this up last night, way undershot OG. It ended up somewhere around 1.064 and I even added some DME to try and boost the gravity a tad. I tried to make a starter on Friday with wlp001, but I didn't want to risk an infection due to some dog/cat hair that somehow made it's way in, i'm guessing the boil. So I picked up two smack packs of wy1056. Oh well, it's bubbling away just fine. It will still make beer!

 

[cbehr]

Is there a huge difference in the yeast? I'm doing a 2G batch so I'd probably prefer a dry US-05 unless someone really thinks another is that much better.

 

[Silentnoiz]

It has been said that yeast contributes significantly (up to 60% IIRC) to how the beer tastes.

 

[cbehr]

It has been said that yeast contributes significantly (up to 60% IIRC) to how the beer tastes.

I understand it can make a HUGE difference in beers, but Vinnie suggest WLP001 Cali Ale or Wyeast 1056 American Ale so I was just curious what the US-05 as the OP suggested does to the taste?