Double IPA Pliny the Elder Clone

Williams 728
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I am just saying you are probably ok using hop bags without sanitizing them. I don't have a fool proof guarantee, just my results.
 
Tcl1999 said:
I am just saying you are probably ok using hop bags without sanitizing them.
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This is what I do, I keg, so I purge the air out and fill it with co2 so nothing is going to live in that environment.
 
How are you guys getting PTE to compare this to. I only 250 miles from Russion River Brewing and still have to drive up there to buy a case ($120 per case of 17.25oz bottles). I dont mind though as its very close to Lagunitas...

For those that think their version came out dry, be sure to get the original for comparison, it's prettty friggin dry too! Overrated if you ask me.

Ballast Point Big Eye is my favorite. Closely followed by Sculpin, Stone IPA and Lagunitas... Sorry off topic...
 
brick_haus said:
How are you guys getting PTE to compare this to. I only 250 miles from Russion River Brewing and still have to drive up there to buy a case ($120 per case of 17.25oz bottles). I dont mind though as its very close to Lagunitas...

For those that think their version came out dry, be sure to get the original for comparison, it's prettty friggin dry too! Overrated if you ask me.

Ballast Point Big Eye is my favorite. Closely followed by Sculpin, Stone IPA and Lagunitas... Sorry off topic...
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Whole foods and total wine have it almost every Tuesday.

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Don't worry about sanitation with dry hopping. In fact I am not too worried about sanitation period. I have brewed probably 50 batches of homebrew with moderate sanitation measures (bleaching things within reason, cleaning bottles in a dishwasher, etc) and I've never had a infection. Ive dumped hops, fruits, chocolate into the secondary without any infections. Don't worry and have a homebrew.
 
Brewing this now. It seems like I always forget to plug something into beersmith, this time I forgot to adjust my grain temp (it was in the garage all night and got cold), so I missed my mash temp by a little bit, ended up around 147. Not too worried about it, I have had attenuation issues lately anyway so maybe this will help.
 
Transferred this to a keg and dry hopped yesterday. Gravity finished around 1.010. I am a little surprised that the aroma and flavor is not as hoppy as I thought it would be. I have read others say the same thing. I wonder if the crazy bitterness this beer has somehow masks some of the late addition hop flavor. Hopefully the dry hops will bring this beer to life! I did everything right as far as I know. 2L starter, used pure O2 before pitching, hit all my water numbers, fermented at 64.....we shall see.
 
brew2enjoy said:
Transferred this to a keg and dry hopped yesterday. Gravity finished around 1.010. I am a little surprised that the aroma and flavor is not as hoppy as I thought it would be. I have read others say the same thing. I wonder if the crazy bitterness this beer has somehow masks some of the late addition hop flavor. Hopefully the dry hops will bring this beer to life! I did everything right as far as I know. 2L starter, used pure O2 before pitching, hit all my water numbers, fermented at 64.....we shall see.
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So just to post a little update. This beer has been kegged for close to a month now. It has this strange harshness that can be felt on the back of the tongue and throat when you drink it. I've never had an off flavor like this before, but from what I've read it sounds like astringency. I treat my water using the EZ water calc so I don't think water is the issue. I've been getting my grain crushed pretty fine lately with my new false bottom. I am starting to wonder if the crush is too fine causing too much husk material to get into the boil.

kinda stumped at this point but I am going to ride it out for a while and see if it fades. I'd like to try to brew this again though. Does anyone know if substituting Chinook for the Columbus would make a drastic difference? I know won't be exactly the same but I have a pound of Chinook I need to use :)
 
I would not use Chinook in this recipe. Chinook has a rather harsh bite to it that some people really do not like (personally I love it...it is in my Arrogant Bastard clone, one of my favs). Use Columbus, or hop extracts, or maybe Magnum for bittering, but definitely use Columbus in the dry hop.

Do you strain your wort going from mash to boil pot? I do that and sometimes get a spoon or two of grain. If more is escaping into the boil, it might be astringent.
 
Perfect. I have a good amount of Columbus and Simcoe hops laying around and was searching for a recipe to use more of them! this seems like the one. Will be brewing this soon!
 
brewed a small 1 gal BIAB batch last night. HOLY HOPS! hit the OG right on the money at 1.070

i forgot to put in the corn sugar before the boil and ended up adding it while chilling the wort. hopefully that wont matter too much.
 
I've even added cornsugar to the fermenter...never had an issue. Some people worry about infections, but I think sugar is a lot like honey and doesn't have enough moisture to sustain bacteria...I might be wrong and admit I have never looked into it...OK dang it I will go look...pause while I Google...okay I am back and here is what the Goog told me:

Both sugar and salt bind up the water and thus makes the water unavailable to the bacteria to use. In essence, while the environment may seem like it has a lot of water in it, most of the water is tied up by the salt or sugar. Bacteria require a certain amount of "available" water to survive and grow. Spoilage of jams and jellies is usually due to molds and not bacteria because of the high sugar content. Molds do not require as much water for growth and survival as most bacteria.
 
Just did a side by side taste test after an extraordinary test of patience, letting my attempt at the Brewers Friend Clone recipe bottle condition for 3 weeks...It was worth the wait. Our brew is a little darker, and a bit harsher.... ImageUploadedByHome Brew1392412299.051264.jpgAlthough it's a hard to be impartial, I think we nailed it. Looking back at my notes the only thing I could do better in the next batch is to control the boil.....I started with 8 gallons from the MT and between the boil off and the hops I bottled only 4 1/2 gallons.....
 
Primary was 7 days.....at around 67F, specific gravity settled at 1.018.....secondary another 6 days, but I moved it into the basement to get down to 55F....SG ended at 1.016. Although I'm not sure my hydrometer reading was all that precise! Bottled it and immediately packed it into our camper, heading for Key West. Handled the 1500 mile ride like any good IPA used to on the ships to India! As I mentioned, waited the three weeks for bottle conditioning.....just wished I could have lost less to the boil/hops/racking process...
[UPDATE]
Sorry....I forgot, the secondary fermentation was actually 13 days with two dry hoppings, the first when I initially transferred to the secondary, and another 7 days later. Kept it at 67F for the first 7 days and then moved to the cooler basement for the last 6 days. Sorry for the confusion,,,,must be that 8.5% ABV!
 
Well, I ended up dumping my keg yesterday :(. I gave it plenty of time to see if it was going to get any better but it never did. Really a shame because the color was spot on and crystal clear. Aroma was incredible, initial taste was great for a second and then....astringent. I tried to drink a few pints and just could not get over the harshness of it. I bottled a 12 pack to age for a while and dumped the rest to make room for the next beer in the rotation.

I want to brew this again very soon. I am thinking this was a water/ph issue even though I build my water based on a spreadsheet and adjusted the mash PH based on that as well. I'll probably use all RO water to rule that out on the next brew.
 
brew2enjoy said:
Well, I ended up dumping my keg yesterday :(. I gave it plenty of time to see if it was going to get any better but it never did. Really a shame because the color was spot on and crystal clear. Aroma was incredible, initial taste was great for a second and then....astringent. I tried to drink a few pints and just could not get over the harshness of it. I bottled a 12 pack to age for a while and dumped the rest to make room for the next beer in the rotation.

I want to brew this again very soon. I am thinking this was a water/ph issue even though I build my water based on a spreadsheet and adjusted the mash PH based on that as well. I'll probably use all RO water to rule that out on the next brew.
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Ugh! Sorry to hear that. Do you think you over sparged? I have noticed that I had some off flavors when brewing this in the past, which I have been blaming on dry hopping for too long...kind of an astringent, vegetable flavor that is an after taste. I do leave the hops in the keg the entire time, so am going to do the next batch with one keg like that and one I remove after a few days. I don't think those bottles will get better with time as this is rare with an IIPA...
 
stonebrewer said:
Ugh! Sorry to hear that. Do you think you over sparged? I have noticed that I had some off flavors when brewing this in the past, which I have been blaming on dry hopping for too long...kind of an astringent, vegetable flavor that is an after taste. I do leave the hops in the keg the entire time, so am going to do the next batch with one keg like that and one I remove after a few days. I don't think those bottles will get better with time as this is rare with an IIPA...
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I don't think I over sparged. However it was only my second or third batch using my new false bottom. I think I need to recirculate my first runnings more the clear the wort. I was so use to batch sparging with a manifold where I could just pull a 1/2 gallon and the wort was clear. I am sure it was a water or process issue. The flavor didn't seem to be related to the hops at all. I doubt those bottles will get any better either, but I couldn't stomach just dumping it all!
 
Brewed this feb 9 with 2 changes. First only had 1 oz Columbus. Split it between bittering and whirlpool addition. Used chinook (had a pound of it) to sub the rest . Also instead of all centennial i subbed some Amarillo with centennial. Probably best ipa I have made to date. Can't believe how deceptively smooth this is- this should be a bitter bomb, but isn't. Especially considering how simplistic the grain bill is. Hop flavor and aroma are substantial, and awesome. Great mix of floral, citrus/ grapefruit and pine. In 1 word- awesome

I see someone posted about subbing chinook for Columbus as possibly not desirable because of possible harshness. I had whole leaf chinook, not pellet, and the harshness did not seem present. Maybe because I used whole leaf, not sure. But I love arrogant bastard (which I'm pretty sure is all chinook) so didn't see it being an issue. Next time I will make sure I have enough Columbus- like to see if there's a huge difference or not.
 
mhot55 said:
Brewed this feb 9 with 2 changes. First only had 1 oz Columbus. Split it between bittering and whirlpool addition. Used chinook (had a pound of it) to sub the rest . Also instead of all centennial i subbed some Amarillo with centennial. Probably best ipa I have made to date. Can't believe how deceptively smooth this is- this should be a bitter bomb, but isn't. Especially considering how simplistic the grain bill is. Hop flavor and aroma are substantial, and awesome. Great mix of floral, citrus/ grapefruit and pine. In 1 word- awesome

I see someone posted about subbing chinook for Columbus as possibly not desirable because of possible harshness. I had whole leaf chinook, not pellet, and the harshness did not seem present. Maybe because I used whole leaf, not sure. But I love arrogant bastard (which I'm pretty sure is all chinook) so didn't see it being an issue. Next time I will make sure I have enough Columbus- like to see if there's a huge difference or not.
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That was me asking about using Chinook. Glad to see someone tried it and got good results. I actually just re-brewed this one today but didn't use Chinook. I stuck to the original recipe. Hopefully I won't have to dump this batch. That was painful :(
 
I brewed this a couple weeks ago and it is in the secondary now. It looks and smells great. I can't wait to give it a try in a couple of weeks! I am doing a little book keeping and I'm having trouble matching the IBU in the OP (IBU = 95). I changed the hops a little bit, but even with the original bill it doesn't seem to match. I am using the Tinsenth method as described in How to Brew by Palmer:

3.5 oz of Columbus (15% AA) = 52.5 AAU; Boil time of 90 and OG of 1.07 = utilization of 0.2062; Volume of 5 gallons; These give an IBU of 162.

0.75 oz of Columbus (15% AA) = 11.25 AAU; Boil time of 45 and OG of 1.07 = utilization of 0.1769; Volume of 5 gallons; These give an IBU of 30.

1oz of Simcoe (12.7% AA) = 12.7 AAU; Boil time of 30 and OG of 1.07 = utilization of 0.1481; Volume of 5 gallons; These give an IBU of 28.

Add these three together for a total IBU of 220. Does anyone know why/how I am so far off from the original OP? Thanks!
 
I think the difference is theoretical versus actual. My Brew Log software calculated something like 193 IBUs. I think the upper threshold for what we can actually taste is in the 100 range, so I guess an IBU of 95 is saying it is close to as bitter as it gets?


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By the way, I brewed this again about a week ago with some changes. I shifted the balance of hops away from bittering and more towards flavor/aroma. Instead of 3.5oz Columbus, I used 2. Then added a 2 oz addition of centennial at 30 minutes.

I also used 1lb British crystal 55 and added a little more corn sugar. I wanted a slightly darker color and more ABV.

It is in the secondary now with 3 oz of dry hops. Smells great already. Hopefully my tweaks were good changes!


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On a side note, I have brewed this twice now. Both times I have ended with a FG of 1.007 (adjusted for temp). The brew software was estimating 1.017 at 75% attenuation.

So the first batch started with an OG around 1.069, which would equate to a roughly 90% attenuation, which seems unrealistic. Are my OG readings off somehow? When is the best time to take an OG measurement?


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Sorry if this has already been answered, but what is the secondary time on this? I know this type of IPA is best young, so once you hit your FG and rack and dryhop, how long are you guys leaving it the the secondary before kegging/bottling.
 
Tcl1999 said:
I think the difference is theoretical versus actual. My Brew Log software calculated something like 193 IBUs. I think the upper threshold for what we can actually taste is in the 100 range, so I guess an IBU of 95 is saying it is close to as bitter as it gets?


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Yeah, that makes sense to me, but how can you calculate the actual compared to the theoretical?

Also, regarding your other post, my OG was 1.071 and FG was 1.008 so about the same as yours.
 
The first time I gave it about 10 days total for dry hopping after around 10 days of primary/secondary phases


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I brewed this on Saturday and hit everything right on. I had to stick the yeast starter in the fridge for 5 days as I planned on brewing the weekend prior. Decanted it Friday and made a step up so I had plenty of yeast. One mistake I made was putting the flame out hops in the fermenter instead of the brew kettle and whirlpooling. This is my first attempt at a happy brew. Fermenting at 67 to 69 degrees. I opened the fermenter today to remove the hops with a sanitized tea strainer. Checked gravity and it is already down to 10.12 with airlock activity every 13 to 15 seconds.
Should I add the first dry hops now since it is already so low in gravity or wait another 5 or 6 days. I want to give the yeast time to clean up but not sure how much lower the gravity will go. It smells and tastes great and I do not want to mess it up.
 
This is 3 days in the primary and it looks really thick and cloudy. Does this look normal?

unnamed.jpg
 
Yup, looks like it should. In another 5 days or so it will clear up well.


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Cool thanks. This is my first attempt at an all grain recipe. Doing it biab style
 
Gator, you could probably do either. I'd recommend just waiting until the gravity is stable. If its still fermenting a little bit you technically can gas off some of the volatile aroma compounds from the dry hop, so its technically better to do it once the fermentation has stopped.
 
Mine's been in the keg for a few weeks and the aroma is amazing but I'm not completely satisfied with the taste. It's good, but I don't think it's anywhere near as good as Pliny. If it were anything else, I'd rave about it but I don't think it's balanced enough.
Maybe a little more time will help.
 
jnacey said:
Gator, you could probably do either. I'd recommend just waiting until the gravity is stable. If its still fermenting a little bit you technically can gas off some of the volatile aroma compounds from the dry hop, so its technically better to do it once the fermentation has stopped.
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Thanks. I was already leaning towards letting it continue in the primary until the air lock shows almost no activity and then I'll start checking the gravity over a few days to make sure it is done.
 
Ok, so I just got to brew this for a second time except I made some modifications and I have to say, this is easily the best recipe I have ever brewed, mods or not. I even compared this to a couple other IPAs I had in the fridge and the aroma and taste of mine blew away the commercial brews.

You want to brew this. Now.

ImageUploadedByHome Brew1395545755.425112.jpg


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By the way, the picture looks a lot darker than it really is. Poor lighting and camera. It is very orange.


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