**PLEASE VOTE!** The Quest for the Ultimate Portable Brewery

[bakins]

I think I am leaning toward part duex just for the cool factor. For an easy and pretty cheap upgrade, you could add a pump and a PID for a RIMS... wow, this could be epic.

Yeah, just pump from bottom back to the top of the kettle with the PID controlling the element.

For the bag lift, use a handwinch and a pulley.

 

[bakins]

You are describing what German Hobby Brewers have at their disposal... electric, with built in temp controls and timers. It really is a cool little system, if not a bit pricey.

Speidels Braumeister Shop - The Braumeister

That is nice. Pricey as heck. Basically, I want to build something like that. It won't be nearly as pretty, but serve the same purpose.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

OK so it is coming up on time to choose a system and buy it. Jeremy (my friend) has cash in
hand and is ready to commit.

Which system do you think is best?

Here is the stand design for Pat Duex:

and here are the price outs for each brewery:

Part Duex (BIAB solution) costs about $300 more but has a pump and QD's... I really don't know
and want some input.

Which would you go with?

 

[Baja_Brewer]

Still a fan of Version 1.0. If he wants to spring for the pump anyways he can. I'd say its easier/cheaper to go from 1 to 2 than the other way around if he ever wants to switch.

 

[slimer]

Maybe its me, but I like the nested kettles idea the best.

 

[weirdboy]

The part deux brewing process just looks like a PITA.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Part Duex....

That is a pretty sexy system....

I don't really know anything about either of these processes. I use a very standard three vessel system.

I think as far as PITA goes it will be a horse a piece. Each has pluses and minuses.

 

[bakins]

FWIW, you don't "have" to have the pump in the BIAB one. You can just use the burner and stirring to keep/raise the temps. That would knock a bit off the price. Also, that's the "classic" Aussie BIAB way of doing it.

If you really wanted to, you could also just mount a "normal" thermometer in the pot, or just use a hand held digital one.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Yeah I know... The pricing above isn't really fair because the BIAB would be cheaper by a bunch. The pump would be really nice though.

Also, he could add a RIMS to part Duex for an extra $250ish if he wants to. That would be pretty sweet.

Have you done any 10g BIAB bakins? Any progress/design on your dedicated rig?

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

So those of you who are voting for the JerBrew V1.0 (three vessel), what is your reasoning? Just more standard brewing technique. I like the simplicity and ease of the BIAB solution and was leaning that way. I am surprised that so many are choosing the three vessel.

What am I missing?

 

[OMJ]

I think the biab one seems tedious and while it would be easier for someone who is new to brewing after a few brews they would probably want the 3 vessel setup.

 

[bakins]

Have you done any 10g BIAB bakins? Any progress/design on your dedicated rig?

No and No

I've not had the time lately - rather be brewing than building brew stuff I'm still formulating it, but will be basically like what you have but made of wood since I'll be all electric.

Don't let the BIAB naysayers get to you... The aussie brew boards are good places to get info..

 

[The Pol]

You asked BK, you shall recieve.

I would go with #2. Keep in mind, BIAB requires a BIG pot. You are putting ALL of your water in there along with ALL of the grain. This volume can easily exceed 10 gallons for a 5 gallon brew session.

BIAB is a proven method to brew with, though rebuked by many. We like the staus quo here on HBT.

If the plan is portable and simple... 2-3 burners and three kettles just seems to defeat the purpose. Also, if I am not at home, I dont want to spend copious amounts of time cleaning up and such, BIAB is much less time consuming.


Here is more on the details of the process: Brew In A Bag (BIAB) All Grain Brewing Method | Brewer's Friend

But honestly, this is the route I would go. I would at least consider the option of not chilling and simply bringing along an HDPE container to drain the hot wort into.

My measly $.02

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

JerBrew V1.0

Pros:
-more traditional 3-vessel system
-less modification, will work out of the box
-two burners
-traditional double batch sparge

Cons:
-aluminum kettles (I know its fine, I have a problem will stainless desire)
-weird sized kettles (will likely be scrap when he gets his own place with room for a dedicated brew space)
-lots of lifting
-must transfer via siphon tube

JerBrew Part Duex

Pros:
-single vessel nerd factor
-packs down the smallest
-very minimal lifting
-Kettle can be used in a future more permanent system
-less clean up

Cons:
-unconventional sparging (I have no knowledge base)
-requires more DIY and construction of a stand
-requires a larger kettle

.........................

Please help me update this list as you think of things.

 

[The Pol]

Here is a little rundown:

1.059 OG
10 gallons to the fermentor
20 pounds of malt
75% eff
60 minute boil
1.5gal/hr boil off
.5 gal lost to trub/deadspace

You need 15 gallons of water for BIAB, PLUS your 20 pounds of malt. You will easily be looking at a 20 gallon pot to be safe and have wiggle room here. Your mash volume will be 16-17 gallons. Keep in mind this is NOT exact, as grain absorption with BIAB is a little less than with a typical MLT... so your water requirement will be a little less than posted here.

Hope this adds some value to the discussion.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Here is a little rundown:

1.059 OG
10 gallons to the fermentor
20 pounds of malt
75% eff


You need 15 gallons of water for BIAB, PLUS your 20 pounds of malt. You will easily be looking at a 20 gallon pot to be safe and have wiggle room here.

Hope this adds some value to the discussion.

Hmmm.... I designed it with a 20.5g kettle, but I should be able to stretch the volume with my partial sparge idea where I transfer the sparge water into the fermenter then sparge the grains while partially lifter out of the kettle. This step is why I would need to have a dedicated stand.

 

[The Pol]

Hmmm.... I designed it with a 20.5g kettle, but I should be able to stretch the volume with my partial sparge idea where I transfer the sparge water into the fermenter then sparge the grains while partially lifter out of the kettle. This step is why I would need to have a dedicated stand.

Yeah, I wasnt really taking into consideration your sparge. Typical BIAB doesnt have a sparge. ALL of the water goes in, ALL of the grain goes in... the grains are lifted, drained and the boil begins.

 

[Bobby_M]

I didn't read every post in detail but I get the basic idea of what you're trying to do. Compact 10 gallon batches. Some ideas.

You don't need two burners or three heatable vessels. I'd go this way:

15 gallon kettle, 10 gallon MLT, two 6.5g ale pails.

I THINK those will nest into the 15g kettle.

There are two ways to handle liquid now.

Heat strike in kettle, move to MLT dough in and then ignore it for 60 minutes.

At that point heat the sparge in the kettle. When you're finished with the mash, you can either heat the strike ten degrees over sparge temp and hold that in the ale pails while you run off to the kettle (slightly faster getting the wort on the flame). Or you can run off into the pails and keep the sparge in the kettle until you're done. Batch sparging shouldn't take long anyway.

Advantages? Single burner. No real structure needed. No insulation needed on the MLT. Frankly, this is the same kind of system I started with and I miss the portability and simplicity of the whole operation.

 

[Saccharomyces]

I vote for neither, I would go with a two pot setup, single burner (SQ14 is my favorite there, $55 shipped if you are Amazon prime or know someone who is who can order it for you), and use two ale pails as the MLT (inner one drilled with holes in the bottom, outer one with a valve).

You can't beat the simplicity, and you don't even need any valves, a 15G and 10G pot can be had for $100 at a restaurant supply store so no need to pay shipping. The whole setup would be about $250 by the time you buy a tank, the money saved could be used to buy a Barley Crusher.

 

[EvilGnome6]

I didn't read every post in detail but I get the basic idea of what you're trying to do. Compact 10 gallon batches. Some ideas.

You don't need two burners or three heatable vessels. I'd go this way:

15 gallon kettle, 10 gallon MLT, two 6.5g ale pails.

I THINK those will nest into the 15g kettle.

There are two ways to handle liquid now.

Heat strike in kettle, move to MLT dough in and then ignore it for 60 minutes.

At that point heat the sparge in the kettle. When you're finished with the mash, you can either heat the strike ten degrees over sparge temp and hold that in the ale pails while you run off to the kettle (slightly faster getting the wort on the flame). Or you can run off into the pails and keep the sparge in the kettle until you're done. Batch sparging shouldn't take long anyway.

Advantages? Single burner. No real structure needed. No insulation needed on the MLT. Frankly, this is the same kind of system I started with and I miss the portability and simplicity of the whole operation.

This is pretty close to what I was thinking would be a less expensive and more compact solution.

10 Gallon Rubbermaid cooler for mashing
1 big kettle as both HLT and BK
1 burner
1 three tier stand or use various household objects to get the right levels.
2 Ale pails
1 IC

Heat up strike water in the kettle and mash in.
Drain into pail.
Heat up sparge water in kettle and sparge the rest into another pail.
Put kettle on burner and dump the wort in.
Boil as normal, chill, dump into Ale pails, seal and pitch yeast.

The Ale pails will nest inside the cooler when not in use. If the kettle is wide enough, you might even be able to nest the cooler in it.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

While I agree that on the surface the system's I have posted may seem expensive and complicated, they really aren't. The cooler and buckets idea would really only save him around $400 over the full BIAB solution with stand. If you cut out the extra stuff like chiller, pump, all stainless construction, BIAB cannot be beat.

I am just against hobbled together systems in general because I used one for so long and now know how big a difference a well thought out and designed system makes. That's why I have made all the crazy drawings for everything. Thinking through all the pieces makes you realize what is actually needed to get off and running.

Also, you need to remember he has nothing to start with. It makes a big difference in price if you have 3/4 of the stuff already.

 

[Hegh]

I'm not doing 10g batches, but I think you could get away with something like my setup:

12g Igloo Cube MLT ($26 from WalMart + $45 copper tubing for manifold, or $10 SS braid)
15-20g Pot (Under $100)
1 Ale pail (Under $20)
1 Immersion Chiller ($60, I think someone said)
1 Burner ($55 to $110 depending on model)

Process:
Heat strike water in the pot.
Pour water into cooler, add grain.
Fill pot with sparge water, heat to sparging temperature.
Drain first runnings into ale pale.
Dump sparge water into cooler.
Dump first runnings into pot, begin heating to boil.
Drain second runnings into ale pale, then pour into the pot (unless you're able to go straight to the pot).
Boil, chill, transfer to fermenter(s).

The pale should nest in the pot, with the immersion chiller in the pale. You have three things to carry around: The pot/pale/chiller, the cooler (with manifold inside), and the burner. Four if you count the fuel tank.

 

[Hegh]

While I agree that on the surface the system's I have posted may seem expensive and complicated, they really aren't. The cooler and buckets idea would really only save him around $400 over the full BIAB solution with stand. ...

Only? $400 is 10x 10 gallon AG batches. Quite a bit of money, I'd say.

 

[bakins]

[
Cons:
-aluminum kettles (I know its fine, I have a problem will stainless desire)

I have all aluminum kettles (BK and HLT) and wish I'd just bought stainless. SS is much easier to clean. I've been using aluminum for about 2 years and if I'd just thrown a dollar in a can each time I brewed, I could have just upgraded to SS.

 

[bakins]

Only? $400 is 10x 10 gallon AG batches. Quite a bit of money, I'd say.

Agreed, but being "cheap" can cause a lot of aggravation. My time is worth a lot to me, and so is my "state of mind." I actually partial mash BIAB a good bit. The extra cost is worth it for the ease. The extra $1.50 I have to spend on grain or the 3-4 pounds of extract I use is cheap compared to a nice relaxing brew day. Just my opinion, each of us enjoys the hobby differently.

On a slightly different note, after harvesting my hops, I realized I save a whopping $8 by growing my own. Not that I did it for the money (hop prices cam down since I plated them last year - and only the centennials actually produce any usable cones),but it was slightly disheartening...

 

[Hegh]

Agreed, but being "cheap" can cause a lot of aggravation. My time is worth a lot to me, and so is my "state of mind." I actually partial mash BIAB a good bit. The extra cost is worth it for the ease. The extra $1.50 I have to spend on grain or the 3-4 pounds of extract I use is cheap compared to a nice relaxing brew day. Just my opinion, each of us enjoys the hobby differently.

On a slightly different note, after harvesting my hops, I realized I save a whopping $8 by growing my own. Not that I did it for the money (hop prices cam down since I plated them last year - and only the centennials actually produce any usable cones),but it was slightly disheartening...

Very true. I enjoy problem solving and building little gadgets (like the manifold for my MLT; I could have gone for a SS braid, but this sounded like so much more fun).

So eventually I'll probably go for a big automated system, but I'll build it piece-by-piece on my own because that's what I find fun.

If you find other parts of the hobby fun, spend more to get past the parts that you don't like if you can afford it. What does Jeremy seem to like best about the choices?

 

[rico567]

That is nice. Pricey as heck. Basically, I want to build something like that. It won't be nearly as pretty, but serve the same purpose.

Compared to a SABCO, or a Blichmann system? Pretty cheap, if you're comparing apples and apples. That 50l system would do over 10 gal, completely automated with all the rests, and for about $3K US. It's not as cheap as my collection of plastic buckets and carboys, cooler conversion MLT and turkey burner......but you can't compare the two, either. I get good beer by constant attention to my system, which would not be required with the system shown. That Speidel is basically like an automated coffeemaker. You put in the ingredients, and drain off the finished wort.

 

[Hegh]

... That Speidel is basically like an automated coffeemaker. You put in the ingredients, and drain off the finished wort.

That's exactly how I thought of it too. In fact, without reading any of the text, I was wondering if it acted as fermentation vessel as well.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

FAIL.

My friend just emailed me to say that his brewing stash will now go to a new truck because the exhaust just fell off his car.

I am a little annoyed because he had me research and design all this stuff and now bailed. Oh well, I can't be mad because it sucks for him, but still....

Maybe he will get back to this project sometime...

 

[jwright]

Boerderji,
Not a total fail - You really turned me on to a great set up and a wonderful solution to my lack of storage space. For 1 'unit' of space, I can get a 2 tier or 3 tier system with Wildwest's mods (sweet!). 2 burners to start with, cooler MLT, gravity flow (I do 5 gal batches). This can easily be upgraded with a pump in the future, plumbing, then some temp control - - oooh starting to get tingily inside. All of which takes only slightly more floor space than my current burner and tank. The entry price is a bit steep, but even building a rig from wood, you are going to approach that once you buy the burners.
Wow, I can't wait to get started. NO I just havee to save my nickles and dimes.
A big hats off to you and to wildwest450 for showing a great rig with a lot of potential.
Thanks,
Jason

I would like to get an update from wildwest about the system - how it is working out, problems, changes and durability. The last I could find was back in feb