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Please help. Wife made me do PowerPoint for electric brewery budget approval

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I'm an AG brewer of 7 years and been in the garage with propane. We are moving to a house with a detached garage and there’s no running water and it’s not practical to run stuff back and forth inside to clean. Bottom line I can’t brew until I get an indoor electric brewing solution. She’s on board—she gets the house and I get an indoor brew room.

She made me put together a PowerPoint and convince her what I need and how much it will cost.

She is on board with a dedicated room with ventilation, stainless tables, utility sink, etc, but I can’t figure out what the “best” electric brew setup is for my situation.

I’m really struggling to justify the expense of a controller that I can grow into and retrofitting my existing investment compared to the grainfather. Dollar for dollar, the all in one system has more juice for the squeeze and I can’t prove otherwise. Best I can come up with as a counter is that I can’t do 10 gallon batches and it heats slower.

I had this conversation with my wife “so let me get this straight. You can spend about 1200 on the grainfather (with coat and sparge heater) and have better temp control and easier clean up than your electric system?”

Let me explain....

I have 2 Chugger pumps, a plate chiller, nice kettle and use coolers for HLT and MT. I can’t do a step mash now and my efficiency is in the high 60s to low 70s.

Cheapest I can get into electric brewing retrofitting my kettle and pulling the circuit with a super basic knob controller is $500. I could go with the Auber Cube and be around $1000 and still can’t step mash and still using coolers. Or next option I could go with the SS 1v controller and be at $1100 and permanently limited. 2V controller puts me at $1600 and I still wouldnt have a second heated vessel for that price. Next option is to add another vessel/mash tun and I’m at $2000 to have the same capabilities as the grainfather.

If I was a bachelor, I’d have theelctricbrewery setup, but since I don’t want to be single, must compromise.

I’m having a hard time justifying what I want.

FWIW I’m pretty handy (as most home brewers are), and DIY is an option.

What’s the best solution? Please be opinionated.
Does your wife show you a power point to justify what she buys- shoes, purses...etc?
I understand you want a dedicated brew room, thats great . What I dont understand is why everyone needs all the high tech stuff to make beer. controllers, circuit boards,pumps, stainless everything.
I'm frugal(ok,ok, I'm cheap)
I have a 2x4 wooden rig on caster wheels I built myself . My heat elements are from an old electric stove. I just took them out of the stove carcass and directly transferred them to the rig, its simpler than you think. I gravity feed my vessels. I still bottle by hand.
I brew some pretty decent beer. I'm not looking to enter any in competition.
My wife actually asked me if a Grainfather would be something I'd like, she has and would buy me anything I want to make beer...I said no.
I'd rather use what I have and take the money I would otherwise pay for equipment and use it to buy ingredients.
YMMV. to each his own. have fun and good luck in your decision.
 
It might help if you made a habit of brewing something that your wife really, really liked....
I so agree, my wife loves a good Hef. Ive made her 2 so far...the current one is better than the first and she loved the first one.
If mama aint happy ,aint nobody gonna be happy.
Happy wife, happy life.
words to live (happily) by ,my fellow brewer.
 
Keep it simple.

Take out the largest loan you can and charge the system
You want to by. Make sure to buy everything you need at once so you only need to ask for forgiveness to the wife once!
Don’t put anything in writing to the wife!
Cheers [emoji482]
a loan...to make homebrew??? thats hysterical.
 
Mongoose- "I'm wondering if anyone has ever cobbled a system together and gotten everything correct right off the bat. Part of the fun is in figuring it all out."

Mine works.
No, it didn't work flawlessly off the bat but a few brews it was as streamlined as I need it to be. I actually eliminated a couple things, like the sparge arm manifold and pump. I went batch sparge instead and gravity feed. My vorlauf consists of cracking the valve a little and run a quart to set the grainbed and let it wide open once thats done. I pour that dirty quart back against the side carefully. I get clear wort.
More tweaking on process than mechanics.
My rig consists of repurposed 2x4s that I got from work ( clean shipping pallets for car manufacturing machinery)I very well could have bought at Home Depot.
wood screws ,casters. 1/4 inch hardi-board for the heat element surfaces which I probably dont even need. The cord, range elements and controllers from an electric stove.
8 gallon stainless steel kettle with 2 welded bungs, thermometer, bronze (lead free) ball valve.
43 qt igloo Cube cooler converted to a mash tun, bronze(lead free)ball valve.
10 gallon s.s kettle w/2 weldless bungs. blichman thermometer, bronze( lead free ) ball valve.
various 1/2 inch cpvc and elbow fittings, clear tubing.
stainless steel spoon,
plastic funnel with removable screen filter.
hydrometer,
floating glass thermometer.
5 and 6 gallon glass carboys,bungs to go with .
(5) 3 piece airlocks, wing capper.
6.5 gallon bottling bucket with spigot.
auto-siphon(racking cane)
bottling wand
kitchen scale (for grains), postal scale (for hops)
thats about it aside from a couple brushes or seals ,star san, caps of course.

I'd bet my system doesnt cost more than $800 .
 
That is funny.....Send the kids to a State School Hun.....I need the loan for my beer
yeah that bank loan officer would just laugh anyway. save the embarrassment.
My ex used to buy things without telling me all the time. Put us in about $80k debt in 20 yrs without my knowing until the divorce. My lawyer told me I had to pay for "this" and I had no idea it was even a thing...always the last to know,but first to bail her ass out of debt .
Keep the budget within a marriage open and honest and stay within that amount.
Save yourself the agony later.
Marriage isn't 50/50 (but divorce is according to the lawyers, HAH !) its 100/100 .If both people arent all in and honest ,its nothing.
yeah , make a beer you both enjoy FIRST, make one just for her next.
 
I'm not a power point kind of guy. I could have built the brewery faster than putting that thing together. The "problem" and "goal" cracked me up. Telling yourself what your problem is and how to fix it...on paper LOL

Looks like it will be a nice area to brew

I have to give my wife credit for keeping me somewhat reigned in. There’s no way I can embezzle any more money out of the marriage and just build what I want. Got to get it approved by the “board.”
 
That is funny.....Send the kids to a State School Hun.....I need the loan for my beer

I thought someone would get a kick out of that loan comment. Fish on, fish on.

Oh yea, and to increase the risk, why not take out a 2nd and call the home brewery an improvement to the house for tax purposes. [emoji41]
 
I thought someone would get a kick out of that loan comment. Fish on, fish on.

Oh yea, and to increase the risk, why not take out a 2nd and call the home brewery an improvement to the house for tax purposes. [emoji41]
I wonder if you could actually do that. Open a business name with the county and tell the IRS your working on recipes for the company in that section of the house and get a partial tax right off on the house. All equipment would be a tax right off also...Hummm...makes you wonder
 
Sure. First, no judging. Second, this is still a draft as I work up the budget.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1ojch15ks9ib0e6/Brewery.pdf?dl=0

A few comments on what I see there.

1. This is just personal preference perhaps, but if I were you I'd have a sink with a sideboard on it. That way you can lay down a kettle on its side to clean, or a keg, or anything for that matter. Plus, you can use it as, well, a drain board. No bending over to use it is a plus for me.

My setup uses an old metal sink but you can see how easy it is to both keep stuff by the sink during and after cleaning, and also to spray things out. I have a sink sprayer which I consider to be superior to the one you have listed where it comes down from above. Maybe the best solution is have both, i don't know.

Here's what I mean: the sink drain board extends to the left of the sink, and I pulled out the drawer and made a little plywood extension; both are covered with a rubber mat. You can see the sink spray hose to the right of the faucet.

brewspacesink.jpg

Here's a wide-angle of my brewspace; the entire back wall, from back of sink to left of the green ferm chamber refrigerator: 13 feet.

brewspacewideangle.jpg

Those sinks like you listed can be had with sideboards. I personally wouldn't consider a sink without one.

2. You listed $500 for a nice mash tun. Don't know if you're estimating high or what, but unless the capacity is huge, you can do it much less. Here's mine; it's a basic kettle, holes drilled for ports and valves and thermometer and such. I have some reflectix around it to hold in heat, and with the RIMS works great. It's 10-gallons, so for this I'd expect a price closer to $250, maybe $300.

3. Since you can only do this once, do what you want. Skimping now will cause heartache later as you wish you had something you didn't do. I'm not saying to waste money, but rather to be generous in your planning for electricity plus some flexibility.

I note in the mockup that you have a stainless table next to the sink. Maybe that could serve as a drainboard (sort of--no draining), or perhaps turn the sink 90 degrees to the right and have one with a drain board.

That's the sort of thing I suspect that, later, you'll wish you had.

Further, expansion capability and flexibility are key here. I've revamped my brewspace serveral times to accommodate new equipment or setup. So the idea that you know, with certainty, how you're going to want it arranged....well, i'd bet you do some tweaking. Allow for that.

All of this is my 2 cents. Great fun to plan something from scratch like this. Wish I had a space like that.
 
You are researching for a book you are writing. You have so much time before it has to make money or it becomes a hobby. At least that is the way it use to be, I couldn't tell you the current tax code.

Scratch that..... research for a blog you are writing. You can llc it and be a legitimate business right off the bat. Everything is then a write off plus a percentage of your house, phone, etc. You must run it as a separate business from household expenses though. That means separate business accounts, tax id number, etc. Plus you will want business insurance, which you can usually get as a rider on your home owners insurance. All very simple to do and can be up and running in a matter of a few day. Key part here..... You have to have something to say and you have to say something that people will listen to or read. You get those two thing down and you could be off and running. Without those 2 things just go back to planning your brew house.
 
Not sure if it was mentioned or not, if so sorry for the redundancy. But if your going to get a large hood, why not convert your current burners to natural gas? Use the new hood, and brew in the basement. Keep your current system and slowly upgrade over time. Although I completely understand if your just needing an excuse to upgrade now. Hah. Also nice power point.
 
A few comments on what I see there.

1. This is just personal preference perhaps, but if I were you I'd have a sink with a sideboard on it. That way you can lay down a kettle on its side to clean, or a keg, or anything for that matter. Plus, you can use it as, well, a drain board. No bending over to use it is a plus for me.

My setup uses an old metal sink but you can see how easy it is to both keep stuff by the sink during and after cleaning, and also to spray things out. I have a sink sprayer which I consider to be superior to the one you have listed where it comes down from above. Maybe the best solution is have both, i don't know.

Here's what I mean: the sink drain board extends to the left of the sink, and I pulled out the drawer and made a little plywood extension; both are covered with a rubber mat. You can see the sink spray hose to the right of the faucet.

View attachment 615973

Here's a wide-angle of my brewspace; the entire back wall, from back of sink to left of the green ferm chamber refrigerator: 13 feet.

View attachment 615975

Those sinks like you listed can be had with sideboards. I personally wouldn't consider a sink without one.

2. You listed $500 for a nice mash tun. Don't know if you're estimating high or what, but unless the capacity is huge, you can do it much less. Here's mine; it's a basic kettle, holes drilled for ports and valves and thermometer and such. I have some reflectix around it to hold in heat, and with the RIMS works great. It's 10-gallons, so for this I'd expect a price closer to $250, maybe $300.

3. Since you can only do this once, do what you want. Skimping now will cause heartache later as you wish you had something you didn't do. I'm not saying to waste money, but rather to be generous in your planning for electricity plus some flexibility.

I note in the mockup that you have a stainless table next to the sink. Maybe that could serve as a drainboard (sort of--no draining), or perhaps turn the sink 90 degrees to the right and have one with a drain board.

That's the sort of thing I suspect that, later, you'll wish you had.

Further, expansion capability and flexibility are key here. I've revamped my brewspace serveral times to accommodate new equipment or setup. So the idea that you know, with certainty, how you're going to want it arranged....well, i'd bet you do some tweaking. Allow for that.

All of this is my 2 cents. Great fun to plan something from scratch like this. Wish I had a space like that.

Thank you. I hear ya on the drain area. I'm sure most of this hobby is cleaning.
 
Not sure if it was mentioned or not, if so sorry for the redundancy. But if your going to get a large hood, why not convert your current burners to natural gas? Use the new hood, and brew in the basement. Keep your current system and slowly upgrade over time. Although I completely understand if your just needing an excuse to upgrade now. Hah. Also nice power point.

The hood I got is a 600CFM professional style hood. I came across a hell of a craigslist deal and got it for $50.
I did the calcs on natural gas (which is right by my brew area BTW) and I'd need about 2500 CFM to deal to vent the up to 75,000 BTUs. But believe me I'm open to gas if it can be done safely. My number 1 thing is to brew inside.
 
Not sure if it was mentioned or not, if so sorry for the redundancy. But if your going to get a large hood, why not convert your current burners to natural gas? Use the new hood, and brew in the basement. Keep your current system and slowly upgrade over time. Although I completely understand if your just needing an excuse to upgrade now. Hah. Also nice power point.
You are researching for a book you are writing. You have so much time before it has to make money or it becomes a hobby. At least that is the way it use to be, I couldn't tell you the current tax code.

Scratch that..... research for a blog you are writing. You can llc it and be a legitimate business right off the bat. Everything is then a write off plus a percentage of your house, phone, etc. You must run it as a separate business from household expenses though. That means separate business accounts, tax id number, etc. Plus you will want business insurance, which you can usually get as a rider on your home owners insurance. All very simple to do and can be up and running in a matter of a few day. Key part here..... You have to have something to say and you have to say something that people will listen to or read. You get those two thing down and you could be off and running. Without those 2 things just go back to planning your brew house.
Now thats creativity!
 
If anyone is interested, got the quote back from spike for a 3 vessel HERMS setup (no controller or anything) and came in around 2K.
 
Way too much work. I just let my wife know that what ever I spend on this silly hobby, it is still cheaper than a girlfriend. You can most likely do that in less than three slides including the Intro and a Q&A slide.
 
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The hood I got is a 600CFM professional style hood. I came across a hell of a craigslist deal and got it for $50.
I did the calcs on natural gas (which is right by my brew area BTW) and I'd need about 2500 CFM to deal to vent the up to 75,000 BTUs. But believe me I'm open to gas if it can be done safely. My number 1 thing is to brew inside.
Ah, I see. Right on.
 
@johnwpowell, nice ppt presentation! You received some very good advice ~ sink types and addons etc.

Just a couple more items to consider. I would look at your space now as you have it and imagine how it would look a few years from now. You may find the space too small. With that said, you might consider moving the right side wall slightly to the right so that it is inline with the bedroom staircase wall. That extra 18"-20" may allow options like the extra sink drain board that @mongoose33 suggested or you could put another fermenter in that space. The point is that you will have options to grow.

Forget about trying to deduct your expenses as a business expense. A sham is a sham. Talk to your tax person. Research top audit triggers. Go to irs.gov and research self-employed publications, hobby loss publications, and business and/or office in a home publications. The IRS is not stupid.

Lastly, it is very obvious you are talented and have thought through almost all the details ~ more so than most of us on this board. I am sure your wife knows your talents, your exhaustive research personality, your character, and trusts you. I believe she would accept anything that you decided what was best in the long run. So, as others pointed out, build your system and brewery to what you want and do not settle for anything less. If finances are limited, build it in steps.
 
Way too much work. I just let my wife know that what ever I spend on this silly hobby, it is still cheaper than a girlfriend. You can most likely do that in less than three slides including the Intro and a Q&A slide.

I tried using this on my wife and she said I should start looking for a girlfriend now and the divorce is going to be way more expensive.
 
What about the smell. My wife HATES it.

I don't really get the smell thing. My condenser drains directly to the sink drain, and there's no smell.

And, honestly, dude, you're making your wife seem like a shrew. Is she really that bad?
 
I understand the smell thing, the SWMBO is the same way. You would think after so many years she would be use to it. Even after all these years the owner of the local brew store gives her a hard time about it whenever we go in there. At least my SWMBO doesn't complain about it, she understands that she is the one that got me started brewing. When she got me the setup as a Christmas gift she was thinking that I would give it up after a brew or two, kind of like she has done with any hobbies she has ever started. I just make sure my brew days come when she is not going to be around. She also will stop by the brew shop on her way home to get me things I need or to find a random "just because" gift for me. My wife kicks a$$! I'm a lucky SOB!
 
Sure. First, no judging. Second, this is still a draft as I work up the budget.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1ojch15ks9ib0e6/Brewery.pdf?dl=0
That's awesome. Really impressive so far.
You could also detail:
1. Single batch wort capacity preferences. (How many gallons?)
2. What you plan is for disposing of spent grains.
3. Could the brewery be leveraged for other stuff (big event dishes cleanup, etc).
4. Equipment you already have, what it costs new, and how it could be used.
5. Grain capacity for mashing purposes.
6. Time plan and commitment level for implementation.
7. Future optional adjustments.
8. Property value improvement.
9. Zombie apocalypse sustainability value.

Ultimately you want a happy home before, during, and after the final plan is executed.
 
I don't really get the smell thing. My condenser drains directly to the sink drain, and there's no smell.

And, honestly, dude, you're making your wife seem like a shrew. Is she really that bad?

We're trying to figure this one out. Mine produces a fairly grotesque smell, though this last time I eliminated the Fermcap-S and it wasn't as bad. Wondering if there's a reaction with that or other stuff with my heating element. My next step is to seal the drain line to the drain so no effluent smell can come out.

By any chance, are you using propane instead of electric?
 
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We're trying to figure this one out. Mine produces a fairly grotesque smesll, though this last time I eliminated the Fermcap-S and it wasn't as bad. Wondering if there's a reaction with that or other stuff with my heating element. My next step is to seal the drain line to the drain so no effluent smell can come out.

By any chance, are you using propane instead of electric?

Yes, I've read on the condenser thread about the smell, but I don't get it. I've an electric system, and I think the key, for me at least, is that the condenser drains directly into the sink next to the kettle, literally into the drain. That and I also am only boiling off at about 5-6 percent of the volume. I'm lucky, I guess, after reading the other thread.
 
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