Please help me move to all grain

[mysteryshrimp]

Two things:

You'll probably lose more than 5 degrees in temp when you start mashing. I count on 10 degrees lost, and until you figure out your equipment, remember that it's easier to cool down quickly (with cold water and/or stirring) than heat quickly.

1.100 in pre-boil wort is ridiculously high gravity. What you might mean is until the runnings are 1.010. In which case, yes.

 

[glick]

If you have Beersmith it will give you mash and sparge water amounts based on your equipment. There are also some free calculators on the web, just google search mash and sparge water calculator. As far as help understanding techniques, there are a lot of "how to" videos on youtube regarding all- grain brewing. Sometimes it's easier to see something being done rather then reading about it.

Note: http://www.brew365.com/mash_sparge_water_calculator.php This is usually in line with Beersmith's calculations and pretty accurate.

 

[cosmatics]

Holy cow this thread took off! I goto the mall and buy some shorts for a few hours and ba boom. A lot of good info here and just take up someone on their offer to help on their brewday, its so simple you will be shocked. Goodluck.

 

[markmc40]

I would consider a 10g brew pot. I had an 8g when I jumped to all grain and I ended up having to lower the starting volume and add 1g top off water to the fermenter due to the boil off of the banjo burner. I got a 10g prior to my last brew day and life is good doing full wort boils now.

 

[glick]

I would consider a 10g brew pot. I had an 8g when I jumped to all grain and I ended up having to lower the starting volume and add 1g top off water to the fermenter due to the boil off of the banjo burner. I got a 10g prior to my last brew day and life is good doing full wort boils now.

+1

 

[HappyDrunk]

Holy cow this thread took off! I goto the mall and buy some shorts for a few hours and ba boom. A lot of good info here and just take up someone on their offer to help on their brewday, its so simple you will be shocked. Goodluck.

You ain't lying! I can't tell you guys how much I appreciate the help. One definite thing I have gathered thus far is to go for a 10 gallon or bigger brew pot or (and make sure my terminology is correct here) make a keggle. As far as helping someone on their brew day, it's just too hard to plan - work could bring me anywhere in the country with a days notice.

Anyway, I think I have the information I need now thanks to you guys. The equipment I listed should work, right? Igloo cooler with false bottom, 10 gal. brew pot (or keggle), propane burner, and I'm good to go from what I've gathered. The only step I was missing was the sparging, which seems simple enough to me now. Not that I fully understand it yet (the difference between mashing and sparging - It seems they'd do about the same thing to the untrained eye), but I'll do some more reading on it. Something about converting enzymes to sugars. Anyone have any recommendations on propane burners, brew pots, how to take the cheap plastic valve off the igloo and replace it with a SS one, etc?

 

[snowtires]

Sounds like your good to go. As for the cooler the valve and the false bottom, just search for ball valve on cooler. There are a ton of write ups on how to do it and the parts required. As for th false bottom that's up to you, personally I am really happy with the braided line, I have never had a stuck sparge and I hardly get a speck of grain when I mash out. As for time savings I just did my first overnight mash. Mashed in the evening and sparked and boiled the next morning it was awesome, I started heating sparge water at 7:30 and was finished cleaning by 10am. My 5 gallon Rubbermaid cooler loses about 1 degree per hour. I drilled a small hole in the lid and slide a thermometer down there to keep an eye in the temperatures. Have fun because when you drink your beer you make with all grain it tastes better. It just does

 

[Tombstone0]

Since you're still a little fuzzy about mash vs. sparge.

Mash: this is where most of your fermentable sugar comes from. During the mash you mix water with your grain and let it sit for an hour. During this hour enzymes (from the grain) convert carbohydrates (also from the grain) into sugar. If you're batch sparging (which I recommend) you vorlauf and drain this liquid into your brew pot. At this point you have wort, but not enough of it.

Sparge: You could simply top up with water and start the boil if you wanted to (this would be no sparge brewing), but there's still some sugar left in the mash tun. Instead of simply topping up you can take that water and rinse your grains with it to get any left over sugar still in there. In batch sparging, first you figure out how much additional water you need. There are plenty of calculators online for this so you can get it ready and hot ahead of time ( I use brewpal on my iPhone ). Next heat it up, pour it over the grains and stir vigorously. Next vorlauf and drain it into your mash tun. In batch sparging you don't need to worry about the gravity of your sparge water, that only matters with fly sparging.

I hope that helps a little. Mash, converts carbs to sugar and drains most of them into brew pot. Sparge, rinses left over sugar from the grain and drains them into brew pot.

 

[brewkinger]

I read through most of these posts, mainly the OP and then the suggested changes.

+1 to getting the biggest kettle that you can afford. I went with a 5 originally for extract, then bumped up to 11 gal when I went AG and now am upgrading to keggle for 10 gal batches.

My only suggestion(s) are first of all, if you have not already done so, check out this:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/all-grain-pictorial-video-tutorials-78963/

Also YouTube will have a ton of videos.

In my opinion, it is something that has to be seen to really be appreciated. If you can, get down to do a brew with the poster that offered.

 

[HappyDrunk]

Since you're still a little fuzzy about mash vs. sparge.

Mash: this is where most of your fermentable sugar comes from. During the mash you mix water with your grain and let it sit for an hour. During this hour enzymes (from the grain) convert carbohydrates (also from the grain) into sugar. If you're batch sparging (which I recommend) you vorlauf and drain this liquid into your brew pot. At this point you have wort, but not enough of it.

Sparge: You could simply top up with water and start the boil if you wanted to (this would be no sparge brewing), but there's still some sugar left in the mash tun. Instead of simply topping up you can take that water and rinse your grains with it to get any left over sugar still in there. In batch sparging, first you figure out how much additional water you need. There are plenty of calculators online for this so you can get it ready and hot ahead of time ( I use brewpal on my iPhone ). Next heat it up, pour it over the grains and stir vigorously. Next vorlauf and drain it into your mash tun. In batch sparging you don't need to worry about the gravity of your sparge water, that only matters with fly sparging.

I hope that helps a little. Mash, converts carbs to sugar and drains most of them into brew pot. Sparge, rinses left over sugar from the grain and drains them into brew pot.

I think I have a pretty good handle on the process now. Now I just need help figuring out exactly which equipment to buy. I'm thinking I'll just go all out and buy a pot with sight glass, thermometer, and everything - 15 gal if possible. I would like to buy everything from one spot, and although amazon is my usual one stop internet shop, they don't have very good selection of brewing equipment. I'm currently doing some more searching. If anyone knows of a good spot or has any more recommendations (which propane burner?, false bottom on brew kettle?, is the sight glass worth it?, buy mash tun v build?, etc), please let me know. I need the brew pot, propane burner, mash tun with false bottom, and an immersion chiller.

 

[texcan2000]

Bayou classic SQ14 propane burner on Amazon works well for me. Also on Amazon the Winware 40qt aluminum professional stockpot.

 

[markmc40]

I have the Bayou Classic SP10. The thing is a beast! The SP50 is the same burner if you prefer the tall legs instead of the short profile.

 

[greenhaze]

The blichmann burner all 72,000 BTUS's. it's the best hands down.
Slainte

 

[Marc77]

There are a few things that have been left out. This is my understanding as I'm about to make the jump to all grain here soon and have been reading as I'm guessing you have too. Braid vs False bottom. For your sparging if you batch sparge from what I've seen people use braids, if you're fly sparging a false bottom is typically used. That's purely nitpicking as I've seen every combination.

Second is the sparging temperatures. Depending on what you're brewing, type of grains, etc, etc you're initial temperature will vary. I've seen 148 to 155, again depending on the type of grains used (some grains are more refined than others. Take for example oatmeal stouts, if you use instant oats you can throw them right in your mash. But if you buy regular oats you have to cook them before adding them to your mash or else the sugars won't be to a state where you can extract the sugars. Granted that was long winded to get me to the temps. Your first batch will extract the simple sugars (easiest to get to) at the 148 -155 degree temp I mentioned earlier. The reason for the higher temps on the sparging...to break it down simply is to get the sugars that need a higher temp to be extracted. Sure you can by using the same temp but then you get into efficiency and that's a whole other discussion.

Third, as others have said...go big or go home. When I go I'm going to be getting at least a 15 gallon kettle for my boil kettle and then a 20 gallon kettle for my MLT with a 15 gallon HLT kettle. This will let me make big beers for 10 gallons because by the time you do a 5 gallon you might as well do a 10 gallon right? The other thing this would let you do is separate into two carboys and do different combinations, maybe using a different yeasts, dry hopping one and not the other, adding oak or bourbon, you get my point by now.

The only other thing I'd suggest is having sight glass and DEFINITELY a ball valve for ease of emptying in the boil kettle. That'll let you see just how much you've got. As for temp, I'd go cheap and easy and just throw a candy thermometer in. For the MLT if you're batch sparging just a ball valve. If you're fly sparging I'd suggest sight glass that way you can keep the MLT sealed and have a hose from your HLT feeding into your MLT to keep it at the right level. There are several designs around here.

 

[BrewLocal365]

There are a few things that have been left out. This is my understanding as I'm about to make the jump to all grain here soon and have been reading as I'm guessing you have too. Braid vs False bottom. For your sparging if you batch sparge from what I've seen people use braids, if you're fly sparging a false bottom is typically used. That's purely nitpicking as I've seen every combination.

Second is the sparging temperatures. Depending on what you're brewing, type of grains, etc, etc you're initial temperature will vary. I've seen 148 to 155, again depending on the type of grains used (some grains are more refined than others. Take for example oatmeal stouts, if you use instant oats you can throw them right in your mash. But if you buy regular oats you have to cook them before adding them to your mash or else the sugars won't be to a state where you can extract the sugars. Granted that was long winded to get me to the temps. Your first batch will extract the simple sugars (easiest to get to) at the 148 -155 degree temp I mentioned earlier. The reason for the higher temps on the sparging...to break it down simply is to get the sugars that need a higher temp to be extracted. Sure you can by using the same temp but then you get into efficiency and that's a whole other discussion.

Third, as others have said...go big or go home. When I go I'm going to be getting at least a 15 gallon kettle for my boil kettle and then a 20 gallon kettle for my MLT with a 15 gallon HLT kettle. This will let me make big beers for 10 gallons because by the time you do a 5 gallon you might as well do a 10 gallon right? The other thing this would let you do is separate into two carboys and do different combinations, maybe using a different yeasts, dry hopping one and not the other, adding oak or bourbon, you get my point by now.

The only other thing I'd suggest is having sight glass and DEFINITELY a ball valve for ease of emptying in the boil kettle. That'll let you see just how much you've got. As for temp, I'd go cheap and easy and just throw a candy thermometer in. For the MLT if you're batch sparging just a ball valve. If you're fly sparging I'd suggest sight glass that way you can keep the MLT sealed and have a hose from your HLT feeding into your MLT to keep it at the right level. There are several designs around here.

Right on. As for mashing vs. sparging, think of it like this: the mash is a biological process, like fermentation. Something that is alive is doing the work for you, in this case enzymes and not yeasts (OK so enzymes may not technically qualify as "life" but you get it).

Like yeast, the enzymes would be inactive below a certain temperature and dead above a certain higher temperature. Plus, there are more than one type of enzyme that you want to get working, and they work at different ideal temperatures. The target temperature hits a window in which most of them are pretty happy.

"Mash-out" is the process of raising the temperature to that at which all the enzymes peter out (generally 170). This reason to do this at a specific time rather than just letting those little enzymes keep going until they have converted all the starch to fermentable sugars is that if you did that you'd end up with a really dry, alcoholic beer. Various styles want to keep different combinations of starches and more complex sugars that yeast cannot digest and ferment. More of them will give you a sweeter and more full-bodied beer.

The final step here is the sparge, which is a chemical process, much like making hot chocolate. It's just a matter of dissolving sugars into the water, which we all know works more completely at a higher temperature. The ideal temperature for sparking is above that which would denature the enzymes, so it's a good thing it comes afterwards! Of course there is a temperature ceiling that you don't want to pass (around 180) because at that point tannins will ALSO start to dissolve off of the grains and into your wort. You don't want that. But you definitely want to get all the sugars that are left stuck to your malt after the mash. Sure, you could not sparge, but you would have to use a bunch more grain in the mash to make up the difference.

I hope that helps to demystify the process a little. I know I had a hard time getting the "whys" of it at first, and unless I understand those, I never really get things right!

 

[cosmatics]

Thats an excellent explanation BrewLocal, thank you.

John

 

[bbohanon]

My jump to AG was a bit nerve wracking at first. Read up on AG methods(I adopted a double batch sparge with my setup and I have no efficiency issues with my current setup).
Build your equipment, learn your equipment and methods, change out what does not work(I went from a false bottom round igloo to a larger square igloo with a braid that just worked better for me), and have fun with it.
Totally agree with the recommendation of getting a big brew pot and a good propane burner. Those are musts.
Don't forget to have a full standby propane tank for backup on your main propane tank. If you run out of propane mid-brew with no backup, it makes for an un-happy brew day. I learned that the hard way. I get about 2.5 brews out of my propane tank and always have a backup tank.
I would also recommend an immersion chiller as well. You can make one yourself for about $40 as opposed to buying one for $65-$75. Hauling that hot pot with 5 gallons of hot wort sloshing around in it to a sink for an ice bath sucks.

Just some extra recommendations that I have found that make my brew day a more relaxing experience.
Cheers!

 

[Crashola]

Lots of great info here. Don't know if it's been said yet, but I do have a "lesson learned" from my first all-grain. When you first mix the hot water and the grain together for the mash, don't "chase the needle" with your temperature. Give it a few minutes to equalize before you start trying to adjust the mash temperature. I didn't do this on my first batch and ended up all over the place on the temperature. It spiked hot when I first added the strike water and I immediately started dumping in cool water. It then dropped way too cool and I fired up the stove. This went back and forth for a while before I got to my target temp. The end result was still a great beer, but the stress level was too much. It's supposed to be fun right?

 

[brewkinger]

^This
I have to agree, this sounds very similar to my first AG experience. I was so focused on getting the mash temp spot on.

I took the advice of many posters, including moderators that gave me simple but helpful advice.
I heat up about 6 gallons of water first and then dump about 2 gallons of that water @ 170 degree into my Igloo MT, cover and let it sit for about 10 minutes (preheat)
At this point I check it and it usually is right around 165 or so.
Add the remainder of my strike water, dough in and stir "like it owes me MONEY" (footnote to Yooper)
This usually results in temps right around 154-155 or so (usual grain bill of 10-12#) and then stir for a bit longer to get the temps down to 152-153.
I cover and mash for 60 minutes. I used to check every 15 min, then decreased to every 30 and after about 6 AG brews, I know that my MLT keeps the temp constant for the whole 60. (I even had it increase a degree once)
IMHO this is the easiest way to get the task accomplished.
It's supposed to be fun right?

 

[Peppers16]

I've honestly not read through all the discussion but just my 2 cents:

I went all grain on my forth batch of beer, adding just a stock pot and a nylon bag to my equipment.
It really doesn't have to be a "jump" like people make it out to be, and it's my honest belief that decades of accumulated habits have made AG brewing out to be far more complicated than it needs to be. The Aussies with their BIAB and no-chill are a good example of how your can simplify the process yet still make equally great beer.

Anyway, my recommendation to anyone going A.G. is to get BeerSmith or an equivalent and play around with a few recipes. After adjusting a few volumes and creating a mash schedule with the help of software, you'll know the process like the back of your hand before you've even made your first A.G. batch.

 

[porterguy]

If nobody suggested it yet, take a look at the BIAB (Brew In A Bag) method of AG brewing. It's originally an Aussie method. For many of us, BIAB was a quick , easy, low-cost move to AG brewing. There are naysayers, but there are hard-core devotees, as well (myself included).

 

[DPBISME]

All grain brewing can be a simple process, but you are over-simplifying just a bit. You have a few missed steps in there. A good place to start is by reading this. http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/index.html
Better yet, buy his newest edition. It's a great book and will come in handy as you progress through all grain.
Also, I would go with a 10 gallon boil kettle. The extra headspace is nice when you generally have about 7.5 gallons of wort in there to start the boil.

It is a great little book, Ihave bought it twice... loaned it out and never got it back...

 

[sa1126]

Let me know if you need help, I am in SATX too

 

[kal]

I have plenty of money, and I want to make this as easy on myself as possible.

As an aside, you should never tell people that... otherwise before you know it, people will be trying to sell you this setup:

Kal

 

[linerndunch110]

As an aside, you should never tell people that... otherwise before you know it, people will be trying to sell you this setup:

Kal

What's your point.

 

[kal]

People may try to sell you more than you think you need.

Kal

 

[snowtires]

If money is not an issue at all I would get that blichmann tower setup thingy. That would make it easy on you and it'd puuirdy

 

[Rohlk]

Maybe this has already been said but if I was you I'd go for a 10 gallon kettle.

 

[linerndunch110]

People may try to sell you more than you think you need.

Kal

Haha that was sarcasm. Doesn't come across quite the same on a board haha. Don't we all want the bling bling?!

That said, I just moved to all grain and got a 10g kettle. Pretty happy with it.

My .02: you want a 10g. The extra space is 100% beneficial for 5g batches and if you want you can do 10g partials.

Also you WILL want a spigot. If money isn't tight get a kettle with one already on it. For me, throwing in an extra 100+ dollars for 30 bucks of plumbing was silly(i have the means to add one down the road.) kinda wish I'd got one already on it all the same :/

10g all the way. If you really serious into homebrew 15 wouldn't necessarily be overkill. All I'm saying is I now see where all the bigger is "easier" mentality comes from.

 

[linerndunch110]

Also worth mentioning, if your a fine tuner, when you boil larger batches ie 10, 15g batches you are free to split them up and tinker with the fermentation process. Pitch different yeast. Different dry hops etc.

So say you got a 15g kettle, you could do a 15g partial and get three 5g batches. Pitch Cali ale, behomien lager, and your fav saison strain and have a blast experimenting.