Please help id or find gasket firestone keg

[Bennypapa]

I have a keg lid that wont seal.
Can you help me find a lid gasket or help me identify the model # or type of this keg so that I can know what to ask for when i go shopping?

The original gasket is a flat, black, rubber, circular gasket 4" outside and 3.5" inside diameter. About 1/4" width. It is 0.175" thick.

The keg is marked Firestone 291395 and the lid is racetrack shaped unlike the average corny. This keg is also a bit smaller diameter than standard corny kegs. This works out well for me since my keezer is small. This smaller diameter keg will allow me to fit 4 kegs in. Otherwise i can only fit three. I have a brew going into secondary so ill be needing this keg soon.

I have some orings for my std cornys but even though they go on they dont seal on this firestone keg.
Thank you,
Ben

 

[satph]

Check with the Chicago Company, they sell a lid gasket for small race track lids, that might be what you need.

 

[Bennypapa]

Thanks satph, I'll send them an email.

 

[Spellman]

In my research I have seen 2 slightly different sized racetrack lids. One is very common and one is not. IIRC the rarer one has a slightly rounder hole than the more common one and is hard to seat with the more common racetrack lids. That is the scenario with mine, hole doesn't quite fit lid. I use a silicone gasket (a bit squishier) and a liberal amount of keg lube. When I pressurize I pull up hard on the lid, and it seams to work well. Maybe this isn't your problem or solution, but maybe it will help.

 

[Bennypapa]

Spellman,
What size silicone gasket are you using and where did you get it?

Is it an o-ring?
Thank you.

 

[Spellman]

I used http://www.mcmaster.com/#9396k926/=rz8nea. Does a normal one seem that much larger? If so it might indeed require a different size. I'm sure mcmaster will have something that will work, as to what size I'm not sure. In my case a regular sized one fits fine as far as I remember (keg has beer in it at my parents house so I can't be certain). When it gets to the age of the racetrack lid kegs, parts weren't as standardized as one would hope.

Edit: Re-read your fist post, flat huh? Yeah the one I listed is actually an o-ring. I think if you use that, slather on the keg lube thick and pull up as you are pressurizing, you should get a good seal. Mine is kind of a bear, but it can be done. Once it is seated it works fine unless something happens and you loose your head pressure. Then you have to do that again. Still definitely worth making it work, but I'm glad I don't have to fill this thing very often.

 

[Bennypapa]

So, I lubed up one of my lid o-rings, connected the gas, pulled up on it and shifted it around a bit and it sealed.

Not an ideal situation since I could get it to leak a bit by shifting the lid around. I'm still searching around for a lid gasket and the local o-ring supply house has a really friendly guy on staff that says I should just make my own from cord stock. even offered to give me some free and help me out if I bring the keg by for him to look at. So, until I hear back from the online suppliers about the sizes of the flat/square seals they offer I'm planning to go talk to the local guy. So I thought I had the problem solved... until I got out my little spray bottle of soapy water.

There is a leak on the liquid output side. It is leaking between the post and keg so I took it apart and took pictures and started looking for parts.... This is where I felt like Alice down the rabbit hole. This keg is an odd ball to be sure so I'll start another thread about those parts.

 

[Spellman]

I'm guessing you found the plastic spacers? I don't recall exactly what was under there, but give these a try if you need new ones: http://www.kegconnection.com/plastic-post-insert/. You may need to file them down to the correct size though. Every now and then I see on homebrewfinds.com a post about so-and-so selling cheaper racetrack lid kegs, and the thought crosses my mind, but then I remember how much of a pain they can be. The lids don't bother me as much as how they designed the posts.

 

[Hello]

I have a racetrack keg that I bought from Kegconnection.com. Last week I called them because no matter what I did, the lid was definitely leaking air. I could hear it but through re-seating, starsan did not bubble. Eventually when I just couldn't figure it out I called Kegconnection and they gave me some ideas. I thought I had it and racked my beer. A slow leak persisted and I lost a brand new tank of gas and had to re-rack the beer to a new keg. Very frustrating because I feel the beer tastes odd now. I hope it's in my head.

That said, Kegconnection is sending another lid but I am going to see if that works and if not, try the links above and order the silicone o-rings. It is annoying to say the least because it has held pressure, I thought.

 

[Bennypapa]

Thanks Spellman. I had not seen that supplier in my searchings yet.
Those are indeed the spacers i need.
Cant wait to search the site and see if they list racetrack gaskets.

I did find a great web page detailing replacement parts made from home depot faucet washers. On my phone now and can't look it up.

I also tried to start a new thread detailing the rebuild but it seems to have disappeared.

Wonder if i forgot to actually post it after previewing it?
Ben

 

[Hello]

I just found this plastic piece. Mine is a wreck as well but no leak. It was an oversight on my part that the poppet wasn't removed to clean. Weird because I was pretty sure I got that cleaned but I was doing multiple kegs at once.

Anyway, thanks for the link for the piece. I ended up ordering from Chicompany and just bought two sets of the flat style o-rings and two plastic pieces in case one grows legs. I wish KC had the flat/square o-rings. Kegconnection did send another lid, I cleaned the keg again and sealed it up tight…filled it with gas last night and I am waiting to see if it held pressure over 24 hours.

 

[Bennypapa]

I just found this plastic piece. Mine is a wreck as well but no leak. It was an oversight on my part that the poppet wasn't removed to clean. Weird because I was pretty sure I got that cleaned but I was doing multiple kegs at once.

Anyway, thanks for the link for the piece. I ended up ordering from Chicompany and just bought two sets of the flat style o-rings and two plastic pieces in case one grows legs. I wish KC had the flat/square o-rings. Kegconnection did send another lid, I cleaned the keg again and sealed it up tight…filled it with gas last night and I am waiting to see if it held pressure over 24 hours.

Do you have it empty now?
I'd love to see a picture of both posts disassembled showing all their parts in the order they go in.
I'm still trying to figure out if I have the correct original parts or not. (I think not).

 

[Hello]

Sure. I'll disassemble and take pics today.

 

[Bennypapa]

Here's my posts disassembled for comparison. I'm not sure I have the correct parts. Pretty sure the poppets are wrong.

 

[Hello]

How did you get your poppets out? mine won't come out just by tapping the post against the counter.

 

[Bennypapa]

I used the Armstrong method ;-)

No seriously, I used a tool to push the poppet down from the top.

 

[Spellman]

The design of these is just a mess. If you are having trouble with the poppets you could try using some universal ones. You may have to shorten the spring on them a bit. If I remember right these are slightly shorter than your typical poppet. I would certainly keep the old ones around though. I have replaced the poppets on almost all of my regular kegs with the universal ones and they seem to work much better. I did keep all of my old ones for an "just in case" scenario, but that hasn't happened yet. I really wanted to switch out the plastic gas tube for stainless, but I think everything was a slightly different size and I wasn't sure things would work well after I drilled out a larger hole for it. If my memory serves me right, I left my new white spacers just slightly larger and it seemed to help snug everything up better.

 

[Bennypapa]

The design of these is just a mess. If you are having trouble with the poppets you could try using some universal ones. You may have to shorten the spring on them a bit. If I remember right these are slightly shorter than your typical poppet. I would certainly keep the old ones around though. I have replaced the poppets on almost all of my regular kegs with the universal ones and they seem to work much better. I did keep all of my old ones for an "just in case" scenario, but that hasn't happened yet. I really wanted to switch out the plastic gas tube for stainless, but I think everything was a slightly different size and I wasn't sure things would work well after I drilled out a larger hole for it. If my memory serves me right, I left my new white spacers just slightly larger and it seemed to help snug everything up better.

A mess is right Spellman. Probably why they are less common.
Do you have one you can look at for me?

If so please take a look at my picture above. Am I missing parts? Do I have unneeded parts?
I can't see how the post seals to the keg body on the liquid side. It's just threads on threads. Is there supposed to be a washer in there like the liquid side.
here's a pic of the top of the keg with posts off.


The liquid side is up in that picture. The liquid dip tube sits down into the counterbore and the top of the dip tube is flush with the top of the male threads. When the post threads on there doesn't appear to be anything making an air tight seal between keg and post.

 

[Hello]

I could not remove my gas post without some force and I was afraid I'd damage it. I have not found another to replace it so I am weary of removing it. If I were to remove it, would I find that red washer too?

Here is a picture, I overlooked removing the poppet from the gas side but I think we have the same parts.

My dip tube looks like yours and sits just like yours. I think the photos at least show enough to assure you that we have the same parts. I have ordered 2 race track lid o-rings that are square instead of round, supposedly making it a better seal, and two plastic pieces from www.chicompany.com. For about $11 shipped to me, I am hoping things go smoother.

My keg, with the new lid provided by Kegconnection.com has proven to hold a seal better. In 24 hours my keg has not lost pressure. I intend to keep it on for 4 days because that was the time it took me to lose a tank of gas. If it loses pressure, I will have those new o-rings coming and I'll use those. I really need this keg so I'm hoping this just works itself out with the pieces I am replacing.

 

[Bennypapa]

Good gracious don't break that gas dip tube!
In my keg the red washer on the gas side was on top of the dip tube.
FYI I talked to Matthew @ CHI company and he said they were talking with a plastics machine shop about making a run of those plastic gas dip tubes. No word on time frame.

Does your liquid dip tube look the same as mine?

Ben

 

[Spellman]

Not handy, it is full of beer at my parents house. I think the connection points go as follows: post base > o ring around dip tube > dip tube > plastic spacer > post > poppet > end of post. By that I mean the o ring around the dip tube seals the liquid tube to the base. The spacer seals the liquid dip tube to the bottom of the post, and the poppet sits at the end of the spacer sealing the liquid out tip of the post. That's why you need a tight connection with that spacer, it seals at both ends I think. Think of it more like those washers that fit on your co2 tank to the regulator. Horrible design, some cheap piece of nlyon holds your gas and liquid in. I hope I'm remembering this right, its been about about 2 years since I've looked under the hood on that keg.

 

[Spellman]

Forgot to mention, those spacers should come a little longer than will fit, and need to be filed down to correct size. Leave them a little long and you can wrench them down and squeeze the bejeezus out of everything and make a tight fit before running out of threading on the posts. Over time they get brittle, cruddy, chipped, and that is likely the source of any leaking, provided you can get the lid to seal.

If you give up in a fit of rage, you could always cut off where the post mounts, or even maybe drill them out larger, and silver solder a few of these in: http://www.chicompany.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=376_1_3_260&products_id=3276. Boom, problem solved. Congratulations you now have standard corny posts!

 

[Bennypapa]

So if I understand correctly
the keg seals to the liquid dip tube via square oring
the liquid dip tube seals to the spacer that then seals to the post which is sealed off by the poppet

If you saw my spacers your totally understand why that wouldn't make sense to me. mine are old and crusty. No way they will ever seal to anything.

Thanks for posting the link to that weld on fitting. I wonder if they have a threaded adapter... Doesn't look like they have an adapter.

I guess I'll try the new spacers and poppets and see how it seals.

Thanks

 

[mackerman]

This thread seems to have diverged from the original topic :-/

Has anyone been able to find the correct lid o-ring? I'm suffering from the same problem of the standard one being too thick and the lid not being able to be clamped down and sealed.

Thoughts?