Please Help - BCS 462 to Honeywell VR8200a

[DKHopGrowers]

First Off, thank you to all the great people on this forum. I am just finishing up a DIY single tier automated system and this is the first question that I have not been able to find the answer to through the search.

I am having some issues with my Honeywell VR8200a Valves (everything converted for Low Pressure LP). I believe it has to do with my wiring, please see simplified wiring diagram attached. I burnt up one of the 120v to 24v honeywell transformers tonight.

As you can see on the attached diagram, my goal is to click the switch to the left and the burner come on a full LP (ie Manual). I want to click the switch to the right and run the burner from my BCS-462 (ie Auto).

Problems: I get a click sound from the honeywells when I move the switch to the left (manual). Gas then starts being released however it is a very small amount (1/8" of blue flame out of the banjo burner and can not get more gas to push out of valve). Then, when I move the switch to the right (Auto Mode) and try to turn the honeywell on with my computer via the BCS it clicks the honeywell on and in under a second it turns right back off.

Any advice will be much appreciated. I also included the LP Valve info on the attachment and how I have the valves connected to the transformers to TH or TR on the valves.

Better Quality Diagram can be seen here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByfSRTDKhqvya0s4ZEpiMlh6ZEE/edit?usp=sharing

Silas

 

[DKHopGrowers]

Anyone out there, please help

 

[kladue]

SIlas,
Lets start on the gas side first, you need the low pressure orifice for the Banjo burner if you have not already installed one. If you have not switched to an orifice with a 3/32" opening you need to drill out the one you have, or buy the LP orifice/valve combo from Brewers hardware. Next up is the LP conversion for the VR8200 valve, usually a slightly red colored spring and black plastic caap in an envelope shipped with the valve. Download the instruction manual for the VR8200 and follow the directions for primary regulator spring replacement. Then tighten the cap down to at least 50% before testing, then adjust until flame is maxed out.
As to the wiring, that should work but most people have switched the 24VAC power side on/off rather than the 120V side. Check the BCS output programming to see if it is setup for just on/off, no pulse width control. The sad truth for process control PID loop is the variable needs to hit setpoint within 4 minutes or the PID action will go into what is called windup mode. With a couple gallons of liquid the thermal mass is so much that simple on/off control works about as well as can be expected. Switching the gas on/off with short intervals will not work well like switching electric elements will.
A popular myth is the time needed for starch conversion, most happens in the first 10-15 minutes, with the last 10% happening over the balance of the rest time. Stepping the mash temperature up to 154-158 to create dextrines in last 10 minutes of 60 minute rest is only reason to fire the burner during the mash rest cycle. The other reason to fire the burner during mash cycle is to start at 125 degrees for a protein rest (big wheat beers only), then fire the burner to recirculate heat the mash to 150 degrees for starch conversion. Do not dally at 125 degrees to long or the beer will end up with much less body that you would like, for Pils malt it would be a waste of time as the malts of today are fully modified and do not benefit from a protein rest. With a little bit of insulation on the mash tun, the thermal mass is such that the temperature only drops a couple degrees which does not change the enzymes released in the first 5 minutes of the mash cycle, that are still getting the job done as temperature drops.
Hope this gets you headed in the right direction, if not let me know and we can continue the trouble shooting until it works.
Kevin

 

[DKHopGrowers]

Kladue, thank you for the reply and thoughts. I just got back from a family reunion and ready to get this problem with the LP figured out.

Based on your comments here is some additional information:
I bought the burners from Tejas Smokers and talked to the representative on the phone. He stated the banjo burners would be setup for low pressure LP when they arrived at my request (I am only assuming they arrived as requested).

The regulator I am using is a GR9448 listed here: http://www.tejassmokers.com/lowpressureregulators.htm

Honeywell Valves: Confirmed, I have replaced the NG parts with LP parts in the valves.

I will try a few things tomorrow night and get right back with you.

Thank you again for your willingness to help!
Silas

 

[kladue]

SIlas,
pull the burner orifice fitting and test the opening size, should be able to fit a 5/64 - 3/32" drill bit, if not be gentle and drill it out. If you want an off the shelf orifice/valve assembly here is one from brewers hardware https://www.brewershardware.com/Valve-and-LPG-Orifice-for-BURN10.html.
From the description of the flame size you have probably received the high pressure orifice, so drill it out or replace it and you should have a lot more fire. For the first couple hours of operation the oils in the paint will burn off giving the flame an orange color, just be patient and the flame will clear up. Adjust the air shutter closed until just the tips of the flame turn yellow, then open it up until the yellow just disappears, not until you get the jet engine sound.
Kevin

 

[DKHopGrowers]

Kevin,

Thank you again for the assistance. You were correct. The flame adjusters I installed on the rear of the burners were still sized for high pressure. I drilled them to 3/32" and they work well both on manual and through the BCS.

I am having issues with the third Honeywell VR8200. When I turn the switch to manual for the burner to fire (the pilot light is lite and thermocouple installed, just like the two working units) and the main burner will not fire. I have 24 volts at the TH TR on the Honeywell and the unit clicks open to allow the gas through (same sound as the other to allow gas to fire). Any ideas, I seem to have pressure since the pilot is lite...

Thank you again, so close to completion.
Silas

 

[kladue]

Sialas,
Sorry about the delay, about the only things that could happen are the internal regulator is missing a spring (the one changed for conversion), or the inlet pressure has tripped the over pressure lockout. Check and see if the red spring is installed, and the cap is screwed down over half way. Last place to check is at the gas orifice to see if some stray teflon tape has plugged the jet.
Kevin