Plague Pale Ale

[EthanH]

I have the ingredients for what was intended to be a reliable and hoppy 5 gallons of Maris Otter/Citra SMASHish (I use Magnum for bittering). However, I was wondering if I could stretch the ingredients in these troubled times to a 10 gallon batch of a nice session pale with the help of some corn sugar.

The ingredients I have:

14# Maris Otter
0.5 oz Magnum (planned for 60min)
4 oz Citra (planned for 5min)
WLP007 yeast (from a previous batch)
several pounds of corn sugar

I have a 16.5 gal Bayou kettle and I BIAB. My plan was to start w/ maybe 12 gal strike water, do a 60 min mash at 152º or so, and then do the additions above + maybe 2 pounds of corn sugar at 15 minutes. I'll come up short on final volume, but I planned to top off with water.

I ran this through brewers friend and it came to something like 4.5-5% ABV and 32ish IBUs, which seems pretty good to me.

Any thoughts/improvements/critiques of this plan?

 

[IslandLizard]

I'd split the Citra evenly between a 5' addition (or a 15' 170F whirlpool/hopstand) and a dry hop.

Since you're going to use sugar, and aiming at a session Pale, mash a little higher (154-155F) to retain enough body. You could probably add another pound of sugar if mashing at 156-157F, but it won't improve flavor, just higher ABV.

 

[EthanH]

I'd split the Citra evenly between a 5' addition (or a 15' 170F whirlpool/hopstand) and a dry hop.

Since you're going to use sugar, and aiming at a session Pale, mash a little higher (154-155F) to retain enough body. You could probably add another pound of sugar if mashing at 156-157F, but it won't improve flavor, just higher ABV.

Thanks for the advice. If I had been going for the 5 gallons, I would've done 3 oz at 5 min and 1oz dry hop, so your suggestion is actually closer to what I originally had in mind.

Regarding more sugar/higher mash temp..."it won't improve flavor"...but do you think it will adversely affect flavor?

 

[IslandLizard]

Regarding more sugar/higher mash temp..."it won't improve flavor"...but do you think it will adversely affect flavor?

I should have said "it won't contribute flavor." Not adversely, just making it a little boozier, if that's what you want. Otherwise stick with the 2 pounds. Any potentially "cidery flavors" from the sugar will be covered up by your Citra. Either way it will be good beer.

Maybe increase the bittering addition somewhat, as shifting the hops to the whirlpool and dry hops won't contribute as much IBUs. 32 IBU sounds right for a hoppy session Pale.

 

[EthanH]

I should have said "it won't contribute flavor." Not adversely, just making it a little boozier, if that's what you want. Otherwise stick with the 2 pounds. Any potentially "cidery flavors" from the sugar will be covered up by your Citra. Either way it will be good beer.

Maybe increase the bittering addition somewhat, as shifting the hops to the whirlpool and dry hops won't contribute as much IBUs. 32 IBU sounds right for a hoppy session Pale.

I might have to take some Citra out of the DH then and add to the bittering addition.

I'm trying to stretch the ingredients I have on hand to 10 gallons, and 0.5 oz of Magnum and 4 oz of Citra is what I got.

 

[IslandLizard]

No other leftover hops in the fridge/freezer?

Just move them around to get around 30 IBU, I think that's what it needs.
Or stick to your original recipe, there is nothing wrong with it, will be a good solid Pale as is. It's me who prefers some dry hop in them.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Personally, and entirely based on gut-feel, if I was aiming for 4.5 to 5%ABV and a significant contribution was from sugar, I'd be limiting this to about 25IBU. About 15 to 20IBU will be balanced, 25IBU more like towards a typical APA, 30IBU is getting into session IPA territory (remember that only (at a rough estimate) 35 gravity points are coming from malt, and it's all base malt - no crystal).

 

[Gnomebrewer]

For 10 gallon, I'd go with 2oz of Citra at 5min (or hopstand), 2oz dry-hop and enough magnum to get to 25IBU.

 

[RM-MN]

I might have to take some Citra out of the DH then and add to the bittering addition.

I'm trying to stretch the ingredients I have on hand to 10 gallons, and 0.5 oz of Magnum and 4 oz of Citra is what I got.

There isn't anything magical about 10 gallons so if it makes better beer, shoot for 8 or 9 gallons instead.

 

[EthanH]

There isn't anything magical about 10 gallons so if it makes better beer, shoot for 8 or 9 gallons instead.

That's a good point. But having an extra gallon or two of beer to drink is pretty magical.

 

[IslandLizard]

I might have to take some Citra out of the DH then and add to the bittering addition.

I'm trying to stretch the ingredients I have on hand to 10 gallons, and 0.5 oz of Magnum and 4 oz of Citra is what I got.

I put the recipe in Beersmith.
For a 10.5 gallon batch (in fermenter) I get 1.047 using 2 lbs of corn sugar. ABV 5.2% with WLP007.
5 IBU from .5 oz of Magnum (12.5% AA) @60'
25 IBU from using all 4 oz of Citra (13% AA) @7'

 

[wilserbrewer]

If I was looking to stretch ingredients as you say, I would consider a dunk sparge in another vessel if you have one.

rather than corn sugar, ive had good luck and flavor from adjuncting w/ well cooked rice or pasta...

Angel hair thin spaghetti works well

 

[EthanH]

If I was looking to stretch ingredients as you say, I would consider a dunk sparge in another vessel if you have one.

rather than corn sugar, ive had good luck and flavor from adjuncting w/ well cooked rice or pasta...

Angel hair thin spaghetti works well

I could do a dunk sparge. I've never done any kind of sparge, mostly because I like to keep it simple, but I could give it a shot.

This adjunct thing interests me...how/why does that work?

 

[Gnomebrewer]

This adjunct thing interests me...how/why does that work?

It's a great idea!
Any form of starch that you introduce to the mash can be converted in the mash, as long as there is enough enzyme from the base malt (you have plenty for the quantities you're using, so enzymes aren't an issue). Non-gelatinised sources need to be cooked to release the starch - that includes rice and pasta. Oats are another option and are great for mouthfeel; quick cooking oats don't need pre-cooking. Even breakfast cereals can be used.

 

[Jag75]

I had no idea either . Been waiting since 10:15 am for the answer .

 

[EthanH]

All right, guys, I made this today...

I found some extra-light DME and decided on an 80 min boil, so the final recipe ended up being...

14# M.O.
2# XL DME

0.5 oz Magnum 80m
0.5 oz Citra 80m
3.5 oz Citra 5m

Mashed at 157-158º

Post-boil volume was 11ish gal.

Thanks everybody for the suggestions.

 

[EthanH]

Looking for one last opinion on this...originally I was going to split a WLP007 yeast cake from my previous batch into 2 fermentors for this one. However, I'm concerned about the slim chance of autolysis (it's a thing! I've had it!) ruining contents of both fermentors.

Thinking of dumping half on the aforementioned yeast cake and then dropping a packet of Nottingham in the other one.

Any thoughts on this?

PS: I haven't pitched yet because I'm an overnight chill guy.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

How old is the yeast cake? I often use fresh slurry for a new batch (as do most commercial breweries) - no issues. When you've had autolysis, was it old yeast/stressed yeast/too much yeast/not enough? If the slurry is fresh and healthy, I'd use it in both batches.

 

[EthanH]

How old is the yeast cake? I often use fresh slurry for a new batch (as do most commercial breweries) - no issues. When you've had autolysis, was it old yeast/stressed yeast/too much yeast/not enough? If the slurry is fresh and healthy, I'd use it in both batches.

Slurry is from a batch that's been (and still is) in primary for a week and a day. My plan was to transfer that to secondary, dry hop, then split the cake between 2 fermentors.

Sounds like you think that's a decent plan?

If memory serves (and this hasn't happened in many years), when I've had autolysis it's been from slurry I've jarred and refrigerated. I don't do that anymore. I either pour new wort on last batch's cake, or I start w/ new yeast. Just not wasting the time, effort, and money to save $4-7 on yeast.

I HAVE done proper yeast washing a couple times, but I brew for fun and THAT was a pain in the ass.

 

[IslandLizard]

At homebrew level yeast autolysis is not an issue for at least 2 months. Definitely none after 2-3 weeks in a (homebrew size) fermenter.
Just use good sanitation to prevent infection.

 

[IslandLizard]

PS: I haven't pitched yet because I'm an overnight chill guy.

Why overnight? Don't you use a chiller?
Or are bringing it down from 90-100F to pitching temps at 66F?

 

[Jag75]

I agree Ethan , I'm not willing to gamble for a pack of yeast . I've never harvested yeast. I dont have the space to store it nor do I wanna mess with it tbo.

 

[EthanH]

Hey everybody. Just following up. This has been in bottles about 2 weeks and I started trying it.

Results are about what I expected, definitely fine and drinkable, but not something I'd rush to share with friends and neighbors.

2 things of note:

1. There's more hop flavor than I would've expected, given the light hop schedule. The Citra really shines at the end.

2. I ran out of corn sugar, so I bottled half w/ corn and half w/ table sugar. The table sugar beers seem thicker, maltier. I slightly prefer the corn sugar ones which seemed to have carbonated cleaner.

I don't have a photo of a pour, but here's my Plague Session appropriately bottled. Thanks everybody for your thoughts and suggestions.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

2. I ran out of corn sugar, so I bottled half w/ corn and half w/ table sugar. The table sugar beers seem thicker, maltier. I slightly prefer the corn sugar ones which seemed to have carbonated cleaner.

It sounds like the table sugar ones aren't fully carbonated yet. The flavour you describe is exactly what a little excess priming sugar tastes like. Give them another week and I doubt you'll notice a difference between the two.