Pitching Dry Yeast on Foam

[Boogie]

Did my first brew last night, an Irish Stout kit from Midwest. It all went well until I went to add top off water and pitch the dry yeast. I aerated it quite a bit, which resulted in a pretty decent foam head on top of the wort in the ferm bucket. It was close to 2 inches thick. I didn't want to leave it all exposed to the elements for too terribly long, so I scooped off some of the foam and went ahead and sprinkled the dry yeast on top of the foam and closed it all up. Will the yeast find its way through the foam and do its thing, or will I have to try something else?

 

[Varmintman]

Should not be a problem nor would I have removed any of the foam. Little buggers love lots of oxygen and a nice place to live in with all the free sugar they can eat.

Always though make sure your temperatures are right for the type of yeast you are throwing

 

[jaytizzle]

Just shake again after you'e pitched the yeast. I generally give three really good shaking sessions in the carboy of a couple of minutes each. Two to get the wort well mixed and aerated, then pitch the yeast, then one more to mix the yeast into the wort. I've done 5 batches this way and had zero problems thus far.

 

[medusa1066]

IMO, this doesn't sit well with me. You would have a much better performance getting the yeast actually in the wort, not sitting on foam. If you rehydrate your yeast, it will sink past the foam as you pour it in. Alternatively, you could add it to your top-off water as a carrier....

 

[medusa1066]

Just shake again after you'e pitched the yeast. I generally give three really good shaking sessions in the carboy of a couple of minutes each. Two to get the wort well mixed and aerated, then pitch the yeast, then one more to mix the yeast into the wort. I've done 5 batches this way and had zero problems thus far.

This works too

 

[Boogie]

It's already been closed up for 10 hours or so, so I guess we'll see how it turns out.

 

[Jayhem]

I don't see why people spend the time to rehydrate dry yeast. I have learned that if you sprinkle the yeast evenly over the entire surface of the wort, put the lid on and let it sit for 20 minutes it will rehydrate itself...then you mix the heck out of it with a stirring paddle to get all the yeast into suspension. My fermentations have bubbling krausen within 8 hours and are going nuts at high krausen in 24!

 

[Skipper74]

I routinely pitch dry yeast on top of 3-6 inches of foam and have never had a problem. I do not make any effort to rehydrate the yeast or stir it in after pitching. I figure that the foam will subside as the wort sits, dropping the dry yeast in and they will rehydrate themselves in the beer, rather than a glass of warm water. Yeast, which have been making beer for centuries--if not longer--without any help from us (humans didn't even know what yeast was until relatively recently), are hearty enough to find the food sitting a few inches below them. Granted, this method may not be optimal, but the beer I have been producing with it has been just fine for my taste.

 

[Yooper]

I routinely pitch dry yeast on top of 3-6 inches of foam and have never had a problem.

Me too!

I don't usually rehydrate dry yeast, but by sprinkling it on the top (usually all foam!) it slowly absorbs the liquid and then rehydrates that way. That's what I always do when using dry yeast and I think I've used dry yeast at least 200 times.

 

[Varmintman]

Me too!

I don't usually rehydrate dry yeast, but by sprinkling it on the top (usually all foam!) it slowly absorbs the liquid and then rehydrates that way. That's what I always do when using dry yeast and I think I've used dry yeast at least 200 times.

Having never brewed a high gravity beer before nor do I have any plans to but I wonder if it would be better to rehydrate or at least over pitch then.

I have always pitched it on the foam or try to time my batches so that I put a new batch on the old yeast

 

[Boogie]

I routinely pitch dry yeast on top of 3-6 inches of foam and have never had a problem. I do not make any effort to rehydrate the yeast or stir it in after pitching. I figure that the foam will subside as the wort sits, dropping the dry yeast in and they will rehydrate themselves in the beer, rather than a glass of warm water. Yeast, which have been making beer for centuries--if not longer--without any help from us (humans didn't even know what yeast was until relatively recently), are hearty enough to find the food sitting a few inches below them. Granted, this method may not be optimal, but the beer I have been producing with it has been just fine for my taste.

Me too!

I don't usually rehydrate dry yeast, but by sprinkling it on the top (usually all foam!) it slowly absorbs the liquid and then rehydrates that way. That's what I always do when using dry yeast and I think I've used dry yeast at least 200 times.

Well that's reassuring, thanks. I'm leaving it in extended primary for at least 3 weeks, hopefully I'll see some activity soon in the airlock. If not, we'll find out when I take a sample for the gravity reading in a few weeks.

 

[BetterSense]

I routinely pitch dry yeast on top of 3-6 inches of foam and have never had a problem. I do not make any effort to rehydrate the yeast or stir it in after pitching.

This is what I do as well.

 

[kh54s10]

The times I have used dry yeast I have aerated, added the yeast and agitated a little more to stir in the yeast. I have sprinkled, and re-hydrated. I saw no difference.

 

[two_hearted]

An exchange between Dr. Clayton Cone of Lallemand (Danstar) and my LHBS owner on rehydration:

Dan,
I appreciate your dilemma It is a universal problem for those that market
Active Dry Yeast.

Let me give you some facts regarding rehydration and you can decide for
yourself where you want to compromise.
Every strain of yeast has its own optimum rehydration temperature. All of
them range between 95 F to 105F. Most of them closer to 105F. The dried
yeast cell wall is fragile and it is the first few minutes (possibly
seconds) of rehydration that the warm temperature is critical while it is
reconstituting its cell wall structure.

As you drop the initial temperature of the water from 95 to 85 or 75 or 65F
the yeast leached out more and more of its insides damaging the each cell.
The yeast viability also drops proportionally. At 95 – 105 F, there is
100% recovery of the viable dry yeast. At 60F, there can be as much as 60%
dead cells.

The water should be tap water with the normal amount of hardness present.
The hardness is essential for good recovery. 250 -500 ppm hardness is
ideal. This means that deionized or distilled water should not be used.
Ideally, the warm rehydration water should contain about 0.5 – 1.0% yeast
extract

For the initial few minutes (perhaps seconds) of rehydration, the yeast
cell wall cannot differentiate what passes through the wall. Toxic
materials like sprays, hops, SO2 and sugars in high levels, that the yeast
normally can selectively keep from passing through its cell wall rush right
in and seriously damage the cells. The moment that the cell wall is
properly reconstituted, the yeast can then regulate what goes in and out of
the cell. That is why we hesitate to recommend rehydration in wort or
must. Very dilute wort seems to be OK.

We recommend that the rehydrated yeast be added to the wort within 30
minutes. We have built into each cell a large amount of glycogen and
trehalose that give the yeast a burst of energy to kick off the growth
cycle when it is in the wort. It is quickly used up if the yeast is
rehydrated for more than 30 minutes. There is no damage done here if it is
not immediatly add to the wort. You just do not get the added benefit of
that sudden burst of energy. We also recommend that you attemperate the
rehydrated yeast to with in 15F of the wort before adding to the wort.
Warm yeast into a cold wort will cause many of the yeast to produce petite
mutants that will never grow or ferment properly and will cause them to
produce H2S. The attemperation can take place over a very brief period by
adding, in encrements, a small amount of the cooler wort to the rehydrated
yeast.

Many times we find that warm water is added to a very cold container that
drops the rehydrating water below the desired temperature.

Sometimes refrigerated, very cold, dry yeast is added directly to the warm
water with out giving it time to come to room temperature. The initial
water intering the cell is then cool.

How do many beer and wine makers have successful fermentations when they
ignore all the above? I believe that it is just a numbers game. Each gram
of Active Dry Yeast contains about 20 billion live yeast cells. If you
slightly damage the cells, they have a remarkable ability to recover in the
rich wort. If you kill 60% of the cell you still have 8 billion cells per
gram that can go on to do the job at a slower rate.

The manufacturer of Active Dry Beer Yeast would be remiss if they offered
rehydration instructions that were less than the very best that their data
indicated.

One very important factor that the distributor and beer maker should keep
in mind is that Active Dry Yeast is dormant or inactive and not inert, so
keep refrigerated at all times. Do not store in a tin roofed warehouse
that becomes an oven or on a window sill that gets equally hot.

Active Dry Yeast looses about 20% of its activity in a year when it is
stored at 75 F and only 4% when refrigerated.

The above overview of rehydration should tell you that there is a very best
way to rehydrate. It should also tell you where you are safe in adapting
the rehydration procedure to fit your clients.

Clayton Cone.

 

[Revvy]

New brewers tend to fret over the silliest of things.

What do you think that "foam" is? It is AERATED WORT. It is EXACTLY what the yeast need to be eating. It's SUGAR WATER. It's not some foreign substance (although it may have some starsan, which breaks down into yeast food anyway which is a good thing.)

The yeast is going to nibble at that foam, and when the foam subsides it's going to continue what it's programmed to do.

I know this can seem like a daunting/scary task this brewing stuff. But a little common sense should still be used.

Relax. Don't over think this stuff. We've been properly aerating our beer and pitching on the foam for centuries.....And the yeast STILL manages to figure out what to do.

 

[two_hearted]

What I take from that is: A.) Why not take 5 minutes and have ~100% healthy and alive yeast? B.) Why would I want to dump ~50% dead yeast into my wort? C.) Why would I want to stress the yeast before asking it to ferment 5 gallons of my precious wort?

Even if you have sprinkled 200x without ill effect, I would rather have the odds in my favor.

 

[midfielder5]

What I take from that is: A.) Why not take 5 minutes and have ~100% healthy and alive yeast? B.) Why would I want to dump ~50% dead yeast into my wort? C.) Why would I want to stress the yeast before asking it to ferment 5 gallons of my precious wort?

I agree totally. Rehydration is the best practice but it will still "work" if you don't esp with the large cell count that comes in a packet of dry.

 

[JJL]

Here is the actual instructions for pitching from Fermentis. That said, I've tried various ways of rehydrating and just dry pitching. It really doesn't matter. As long as I get yeast and O2 into the wort, fermentation typically starts in <12 hours. Nowadays, I typically sprinkle the yeast into the wort dry, and throw in my aeration stone. I let the aeration mix the yeast.

Re-hydrate the dry yeast into yeast cream in a stirred vessel prior to pitching. Sprinkle the dry
yeast in 10 times its own weight of sterile water or wort at 27C ± 3C (80F ± 6F). Once the
expected weight of dry yeast is reconstituted into cream by this method (this takes about 15 to
30 minutes), maintain a gentle stirring for another 30 minutes. Then pitch the resultant cream
into the fermentation vessel.
Alternatively, pitch dry yeast directly in the fermentation vessel providing the temperature of
the wort is above 20C (68F). Progressively sprinkle the dry yeast into the wort ensuring the
yeast covers all the surface of wort available in order to avoid clumps. Leave for 30 minutes
and then mix the wort e.g. using aeration.

 

[Yooper]

I agree totally. Rehydration is the best practice but it will still "work" if you don't esp with the large cell count that comes in a packet of dry.

That's why I don't always rehydrate though. With an 11 gram package, I only "need" about half of the yeast for the smaller OG batches so if I lose some it's absolutely fine. Instead of pitching .7 of a package that mrmalty says I need, I use a whole package, knowing that I'll lose some cells.

If I'm doing a higher OG beer with dry yeast, I tend to rehydrate. I rarely do high OG beers though, and when I do I usually use liquid yeast will an appropriate starter.

 

[medusa1066]

New brewers tend to fret over the silliest of things.

What do you think that "foam" is? It is AERATED WORT. It is EXACTLY what the yeast need to be eating. It's SUGAR WATER. It's not some foreign substance (although it may have some starsan, which breaks down into yeast food anyway which is a good thing.)

The yeast is going to nibble at that foam, and when the foam subsides it's going to continue what it's programmed to do.

I know this can seem like a daunting/scary task this brewing stuff. But a little common sense should still be used.

Relax. Don't over think this stuff. We've been properly aerating our beer and pitching on the foam for centuries.....And the yeast STILL manages to figure out what to do.

Is it just me, or does this sound a little condescending? Especially when I read it in a snooty British accent.

 

[Revvy]

Is it just me, or does this sound a little condescending? Especially when I read it in a snooty British accent.

It's just you, because it wasn't my intent, it really never IS my intent...and I speak with a very american accent. The word "relax" should be a clue.....

My intent is to get folks to relax, and realize that yes, in their stress about this new (and really very simple hobby) it's easy to lose sight of common sense and start to stress out about silly things, yes I used the word silly,.... things that need not be worried about. Often folks don't even see the obvious that is right in front, like in this case that what they are worried that the yeast is in contact with, is WORT, when they're stressed out. I know I do.

If you choose to see the use of the word silly as judgmental, that's your filter, not mine. Sometimes what we stress out about in the light of day tends to be quite silly, and often when we sit back a moment, take a breath we then realize just funny what we were fretting about really is. And hopefully the OP would do that...realize what he's worried about is not worth worrying about.

The term "condescending" implies that the person accused as such see himself "superior" to the person, is judging him. I'm not, I'm empathizing with him. I know that when I'm in fear, especially of the unknown, I'm a silly assed bugger (And not ashamed to admit it.)

I know what it's like starting brewing, and only knowing enough to be dangerous to myself, and therefore worrying about every SILLY little thing.

And that's why I choose to spend ours helping new brewers out, often repeating and answering the same questions 20-30 times a day....

And I don't mind a slap aside the head and being told that my fear is silly, if it is.

 

[OhCrap]

Is it just me, or does this sound a little condescending? Especially when I read it in a snooty British accent.

No it sounds like he's trying to help people not to stress too much about things, yes it is a direct answer but also very clear....I'm a noob and was stressing about stuff until I realised there is no need to, now I ENJOY stress free brewing with a beer in hand.

 

[medusa1066]

It's just you, because it wasn't my intent, it really never IS my intent...and I speak with a very american accent. The word "relax" should be a clue.....

sorry :kickdog:

 

[Boogie]

An exchange between Dr. Clayton Cone of Lallemand (Danstar) and my LHBS owner on rehydration:

That was a very informative read, thanks!

New brewers tend to fret over the silliest of things.

What do you think that "foam" is? It is AERATED WORT. It is EXACTLY what the yeast need to be eating. It's SUGAR WATER. It's not some foreign substance (although it may have some starsan, which breaks down into yeast food anyway which is a good thing.)

The yeast is going to nibble at that foam, and when the foam subsides it's going to continue what it's programmed to do.

I know this can seem like a daunting/scary task this brewing stuff. But a little common sense should still be used.

Relax. Don't over think this stuff. We've been properly aerating our beer and pitching on the foam for centuries.....And the yeast STILL manages to figure out what to do.

Is it just me, or does this sound a little condescending? Especially when I read it in a snooty British accent.

In a world where it's hard to convey tone, I can see where it could be taken either way. Personally though, I saw it as more tongue in cheek, so I'm not bothered. I do not believe I was overthinking it though. If I were, I would have already popped the lid off, scooped every little bit of foam away and pitched more yeast in there, potentially making things worse. This was more for confirmation or reassurance that what I did *should* turn out ok. As for common sense, I'm not sure how common the knowledge is about yeast sitting on top of a foam head. Having read through several forums and even a few books, I knew it would be fine pitching dry yeast into the wort, but couldn't really find a definitive answer on dry yeast pitched on top of foam, thus my inquiry. Regardless, I am attempting to follow the mantra of "keep calm and carry on". Thanks for the help, guys (and gals?)!

 

[two_hearted]

Is it just me, or does this sound a little condescending? Especially when I read it in a snooty British accent.

Its hard to convey tone over the internet. However, I agree that sometimes Revvy can come off a little condescending if you read it that way.

However, the fact is that he helps more people on this forum than anyone else, and probably spends the majority of his time here explaining the same thing over and over again to new brewers. If I did the same every day, I would probably come off as a real ******* and intend to.

 

[AdamPag]

+1 to Revvy, he's the man. Dont forget noobs, the human civilization has been brewing beer for over 1000 years. Way back when they didnt have cultured yeast, sanitizer, running water, plastic, gas burners, the sun revolved around the earth, sea monsters were a legitimate threat, and the Bubonic plague was destroying most of Europe. Im sure in our modern scientific culture we SHOULD be able to recreate something that looks like beer even with moderate error tolerance considering that factor lol.

Also! A tid bit Factoid: Beer may have been responsible in the early ages for the continuation of the human race. In the middle ages, they discovered that their drinking water was constantly contaminated and would regularly lead to sickness and death, however BEER was perfectly safe to drink. This revelation caused us to realize that the boiling of the wort made it safe to drink over water and led to new methods of sterilizing water for drinking, even though the discovery of microbes wouldn't be found for many hundreds of years later. So drink up and thank the beer gods!