Piraat "Belgium Tripel IPA" Clone Help...Arrgh!

[DannPM]

Another Bump. Revvy, you prefect this over the years since 2008?

I'm drinking it right now and put this together on the fly while tasting. Any thoughts?

Piraat Clone

Original Gravity (OG): 1.086 (°P): 20.7
Final Gravity (FG): 1.010 (°P): 2.6
Alcohol (ABV): 9.89 %
Colour (SRM): 10.0 (EBC): 19.7
Bitterness (IBU): 31.7 (Rager)

68.75% Pilsner
9.38% Sucrose
6.25% Candi Syrup, Amber
6.25% Caravienna
6.25% Vienna
3.12% Munich I

1 oz Perle (6.5% Alpha) @ 90 Minutes (Boil)
1 oz Styrian Golding (4.4% Alpha) @ 15 Minutes (Boil)
1 oz Styrian Golding (4.4% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil)


Single step Infusion at 152°F for 75 Minutes. Boil for 90 Minutes

Fermented at 68°F with Wyeast 3655-PC Belgian Schelde Ale Yeast (Relatively clean, but still has those nice Belgian characteristics)

 

[eljefe]

Another Bump. Revvy, you prefect this over the years since 2008?

I'm drinking it right now and put this together on the fly while tasting. Any thoughts?

Piraat Clone

Original Gravity (OG): 1.086 (°P): 20.7
Final Gravity (FG): 1.010 (°P): 2.6
Alcohol (ABV): 9.89 %
Colour (SRM): 10.0 (EBC): 19.7
Bitterness (IBU): 31.7 (Rager)

68.75% Pilsner
9.38% Sucrose
6.25% Candi Syrup, Amber
6.25% Caravienna
6.25% Vienna
3.12% Munich I

1 oz Perle (6.5% Alpha) @ 90 Minutes (Boil)
1 oz Styrian Golding (4.4% Alpha) @ 15 Minutes (Boil)
1 oz Styrian Golding (4.4% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil)


Single step Infusion at 152°F for 75 Minutes. Boil for 90 Minutes

Fermented at 68°F with Wyeast 3655-PC Belgian Schelde Ale Yeast (Relatively clean, but still has those nice Belgian characteristics)

I recognize this is a stupid and lazy question but how do I convert the % of fermtables into the actual weight? I know if I want 10 pds of grain it would be 6.875 lbs of pilsner but I don't think 10lbs is the target weight. Thank you for any help you can provide. I would like to try this. Thanks

 

[shaqmobile]

I'm not 100% sure, but I think the reason people often quote you at percentages is because the efficiency of brewers and their setups can change. You need to gauge your efficiency and then use that to determine how much grain you need and then use the percentages to balance the flavor and fermentables profile. I'd guess that you'd want around 20 pounds of grain that has fermentable sugars. Use that as a starting point.

 

[eljefe]

I'm not 100% sure, but I think the reason people often quote you at percentages is because the efficiency of brewers and their setups can change. You need to gauge your efficiency and then use that to determine how much grain you need and then use the percentages to balance the flavor and fermentables profile. I'd guess that you'd want around 20 pounds of grain that has fermentable sugars. Use that as a starting point.

Thank you, that makes sense. I will give 20 lbs a try and see how it works.

 

[Erroneous]

So I'm interested in brewing this recipe. I found it in CloneBrews by Szamatulski and it looks very similar to one of Revy's recipes:

16.8 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Bel 88.2 %
8.0 oz Crystal Malt - 10L 2.6 %
4.0 oz Aromatic Malt 1.3 %
1 lbs Rice Solids 5.2 %
8.0 oz Candi Sugar, Clear 2.6 %

0.65 oz Brewer's Gold [8.00 %] 60.0 min 12.0 IBUs
1.00 tsp Irish Moss 15.0 min -
0.50 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] 15.0 min 3.1 IBUs
0.50 tsp Coriander Seed 15.0 min -
0.50 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] 5.0 min 1.2 IBUs
1.00 tsp Orange Peel, Sweet 5.0 min -

Yeast: 1st Choice Wyeast 1214 @ 68-73 F, 2nd Choice Wyeast 1762 @ 68-73 F
Add Danstar Windsor Ale yeast or WLP099 to secondary

This looks very similar to one of the first recipes Revy posted. I might do a mix of the 2 (leave out rice syrup, up the pilsner to 17#, and up the sugar to 1#, gives me 1.100 OG in BS2 with CloneBrews version at 1.102 and Revy's 1st recipe at 1.101)

Also I might try doing a stepped infusion mash instead of single if this turns out well. See if it adds anything.

 

[shaqmobile]

Thank you, that makes sense. I will give 20 lbs a try and see how it works.

I also want to add that 20lbs is for average efficiency without sparging. If I don't sparge and just drain my mash, it's around 45% efficiency. You can always boost the gravity with table sugar (don't exceed 10% of the fermentable sugar in weight).

Also, keep in mind that with high alcohol brews the yeast is more temperamental. You need to try and cater to it as much as possible. Keep your temps relatively static, a small starter won't hurt and aerate your wort as much as you can! For the average homebrewer, it's almost impossible to over oxygenate your wort. Piraat is pretty dry, so you want your yeast to be as healthy as possible to gobble up that sugar and exist in such a high alcohol environment. You want to keep it between 68-80F. Generally speaking, the higher the temp the funkier the flavor. 68-75 is probably ideal for a Piraat clone.

 

[shaqmobile]

The first and last ones seem the most promising...at least they hit the ABV dead on...

I can't figure out where the distinctive apple-ness might come from..Is it from the WYeast 3787 Trappist High Gravity which 3 of them use?

Suggestions, Ideas, practical experience anyone?

Acetaldehyde is an organic compound that is produced during the conversion of sugar to ethanol. It's an intermediate phase of that conversion. It has a very distinct "green apple" flavor. If you have a significant quantity of it, that means you have incomplete fermentation. It can be caused by whatever would make your yeast give up early. Bad yeast, too much yeast, too little yeast, high temps, low temps, fluctuating temps, poor oxygen supply or primary fermentation was cut short.

Temperature, too much yeast and yeast health are where I would look first. Yeast can survive at 95 degrees but that doesn't mean you want to ferment there. Also, avoid reusing the yeast cake too many times. Make sure you use your yeast from the HBS within a week or two after purchase, the sooner the better.

 

[Erroneous]

I also want to add that 20lbs is for average efficiency without sparging. If I don't sparge and just drain my mash, it's around 45% efficiency. You can always boost the gravity with table sugar (don't exceed 10% of the fermentable sugar in weight).

Also, keep in mind that with high alcohol brews the yeast is more temperamental. You need to try and cater to it as much as possible. Keep your temps relatively static, a small starter won't hurt and aerate your wort as much as you can! For the average homebrewer, it's almost impossible to over oxygenate your wort. Piraat is pretty dry, so you want your yeast to be as healthy as possible to gobble up that sugar and exist in such a high alcohol environment. You want to keep it between 68-80F. Generally speaking, the higher the temp the funkier the flavor. 68-75 is probably ideal for a Piraat clone.

Actually according brew like a monk for Belgian beers you normally want between 10-20% sugar. Just have plenty of healthy yeast. Many trappist beers pitch at around 68 or 70 but let it rise to 80. The general consensus was that you have to get to know your yeast and know what you want out of it.

 

[JudgeS]

One of my favorite beers.... on sunday for the COWBOY v steeler game we are opening a 9L bottle of piraat, hope this is an inspiration to find a great clone. The bottle is a bit turned to hide the fact that the label is torn, and yes that is a 1/2 barrel keg next to it and a 5gal coleman behind it.

 

[stubbornman]

Ermagherd!!1 ^^^

 

[MaxStout]

OK, I'm reviving this thread because I want to brew a Piraat clone, and (unless I missed something in the past 7 pages of the thread), I never really found any feedback on that 1st recipe Revvy posted. That's the one I am sort of drawn to, and would like to know if anyone has brewed it.

17 Lb's Belgian Pilsner malt, 1/2 lb. crystal 20 L., 4 oz. Cara-Vienna, 4 oz. Aromatic. 1 Lb. Belgian light candi sugar, 1 oz. Brewers Gold @ 5 AAU (60 min), 1 oz. Styrian Golding with 1/2 tsp.Crushed Coriander(15 min.) 1/2 oz. Styrian Golding with 1/2 tsp.Crushed Coriander @ 1 tsp Sweet orange peel (10 min), White Labs WLP500 Trappist Yeast, Prime with 1-1/4 Cup wheat DME.

Best mashed @ 152 Degrees for appoxx. 90 min. Depending on your efficiency you should have a 10/10-1/2 Alcolhol."

Any thoughts, and anyone tweak this one?

 

[shaqmobile]

I'd also like to see if anyone else has input on this! I'd like to clone Piraat.

 

[phook]

Resurrecting this thread, but an attempt on this was next up on my brew list and got knocked out this weekend. My version will mostly be based (but modified) on the first recipe from Revvy's post.

My recipe:
7.75 gal pre-boil
6.25 gal post boil (90 mins)
5.5 gal into the fermenter

17 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 83.2 %
1 lbs Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 4 4.9 %
10.0 oz Caravienne Malt (22.0 SRM) Grain 5 3.1 %
5.0 oz Carahell (10.0 SRM) Grain 6 1.5 %
1.00 oz Northern Brewer [8.50 %] - Boil 90.0 min Hop 7 25.5 IBUs
0.50 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] - Boil 15.0 mi Hop 8 3.8 IBUs
0.50 tsp Coriander Seed (Boil 15.0 mins) Spice 9 -
0.50 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 12 1.5 IBUs
1.00 tsp Orange Peel, Sweet (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 13 -
0.50 tsp Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 14 -
1.0 pkg Trappist Ale (White Labs #WLP500) [35.49 Yeast 15 -
1 lbs 8.0 oz Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (1.0 SRM) Sugar 16 7.3 %

I'm using some extract since reaching 10.5% overwhelms my mash tun and effiency would plummet anyway. Adding a bit of wheat malt since after pouring a bottle into a snifter the real version is quite hazy and has a bit of that sticky, wheaty mouth feel. Finally subbing in Northern Brewer for bittering as I have a bunch of it in my freezer.

I'm not really sure WLP500 will be the best yeast for this, but I'm not very versed with the Belgian yeasts so I may have to brew this a few times with different yeasts to test.. oh the humanity.

 

[Shenanigans]

We have any new info on a clone of this?
Would like to give it a try myself.