Pilsner/Munich malt ratio in a schwarzbier

[nrjones89]

I have seen multiple sources with varying ranges of the Pilsner to Munich malt ratio for various schwarzbier grainbills. It kind of irks me when I hear people say that this style is just a darkened pils -it's really not. It's about a mildly roasty beer with a prominent Munich malt character. Andy Gamelin's powerpoint slides refer to a reformulated Kostrizer recipe that calls for basically 50/50 and steeped Carafa II special.

So I was just wondering what others thought about this ratio when using light vs. dark Munich, whether Kostrizer truly has 50/50 Pilsner to Munich or whether that's maybe too heavy for cloning that particular example.

 

[mongoose33]

I make a dark lager that's similar to a Schwarzbier; I've tasted other Schwarzbiers and mine's right there.

But no pils.

I use

5# Maris Otter
5# Munich
6 oz 20L Crystal
4 oz Chocolate Wheat (sometimes 6 oz)
6 oz Chocolate Malt
3 oz Cara 8 or Carapils or similar.

I brew as per normal, pitch the entire 1-liter yeast starter warm (70 degrees), take it down slowly to 50 degree ferment temp, then do an accelerated fermentation schedule that has it going up to 66 (4 degrees each 12 hours) when attenuation hits 50 percent.

German Hallertau hops.

My point is--what do you want? Make up a recipe that you think will be tasty, don't stray too far from established grain bills, and see what you get. BTW, I like to use WLP940 Mexican Lager yeast in mine.

Can't you just picture the Germans rolling over in their graves if they read this?

 

[nrjones89]

Maris Otter with some Crystal? That's an interesting choice. I am using Briess Pilsner as a base malt for now. Some friends of mine brewed a "schwarz" but they added way too much chocolate malt and their carafa was not dehusked.

 

[mongoose33]

Maris Otter with some Crystal? That's an interesting choice. I am using Briess Pilsner as a base malt for now. Some friends of mine brewed a "schwarz" but they added way too much chocolate malt and their carafa was not dehusked.

Yeah, it's a weird beer, but it all works together. Tasty, finishes a little dry, has overtones of a stout or porter, but not in a dominating way.

This is one of the great things about home brewing--you can try any combination you want, and sometimes, you hit!

 

[specharka]

I’m with you on the whole “Schwarzbier isn’t merely a black Pilsner” idea — it’s an awesome category of beer unto itself. That being said I would avoid any excessive roast or crystal malt overtones; they can be distracting from the beer’s balanced yet crisp finish.

I do two separate versions of my Schwarz — one that’s traditional and the other substituting a substantial portion of smoked malt. For the traditional, I would try 50% Pils, 29% Munich I, 14% Munich II, 7% Carafa Special III. If you’re using domestic malt varieties you might have to alter those proportions; domestic Munich malt is far less balanced in its expression.

 

[mongoose33]

I’m with you on the whole “Schwarzbier isn’t merely a black Pilsner” idea — it’s an awesome category of beer unto itself. That being said I would avoid any excessive roast or crystal malt overtones; they can be distracting from the beer’s balanced yet crisp finish.

I do two separate versions of my Schwarz — one that’s traditional and the other substituting a substantial portion of smoked malt. For the traditional, I would try 50% Pils, 29% Munich I, 14% Munich II, 7% Carafa Special III. If you’re using domestic malt varieties you might have to alter those proportions; domestic Munich malt is far less balanced in its expression.

The Genesis of this was that I kept trying "dark" lagers and finding them unsatisfying. They looked so good, and tasted so...pedestrian. Nothing there.

So thought about what I liked in a beer, and tossed some things together. Here's the weird part: when I did this, I'd never heard of a Schwarzbier. Only after I'd brewed it a couple times did someone ask if it was a Schwarzbier, and I guess it sort of is.

I'm with you on the excessive roast or crystal overtones. There's enough that seems to add complexity without dominating, and I wouldn't add any more. It works as it is.

 

[nrjones89]

I’m with you on the whole “Schwarzbier isn’t merely a black Pilsner” idea — it’s an awesome category of beer unto itself. That being said I would avoid any excessive roast or crystal malt overtones; they can be distracting from the beer’s balanced yet crisp finish.

I do two separate versions of my Schwarz — one that’s traditional and the other substituting a substantial portion of smoked malt. For the traditional, I would try 50% Pils, 29% Munich I, 14% Munich II, 7% Carafa Special III. If you’re using domestic malt varieties you might have to alter those proportions; domestic Munich malt is far less balanced in its expression.

I think I am going to go with Avangard light Munich if the LHBS can get it. I put in an order yesterday. He said he could get Avangard or Swaen. I am using domestic pilsner malt, though.

 

[mabrungard]

Schwartzbier can be a pils focused beer. However, I do find that having at least a small percentage of Munich is desirable. The BJCP guidelines state: munich and/or pils for the base.