Pilsner Hop Schedule

[wobdee]

What kind of hop schedule do you guys like in your Pilsners?

Anyone try a long hop stand in place of late boil additions?

 

[CadillacAndy]

What kind of Pilsner are we talking about? For German and Bo Pils I usually use a neutral bittering hop, like Magnum, and 2 late additions - usually at 10 mins and 0 mins when I turn to chill water on.

I just brewed a Bo Pils last evening and for a 6 gallon batch, I used .8oz of Magnum at 60 mins, 2oz of Saaz at 10 mins and 2oz of Saaz at 0 mins.

 

[zwiller]

Not yet, but it has been on the to do list ever since I started doing them in my IPAs. I think it will work well too. Should be just the right amount of flavor and aroma that is just shy of a dry hop. Undecided if I will add a boil hop or a late addition as well.

Got a hefe and stout on deck though...

Best of luck!

 

[wobdee]

What kind of Pilsner are we talking about? For German and Bo Pils I usually use a neutral bittering hop, like Magnum, and 2 late additions - usually at 10 mins and 0 mins when I turn to chill water on.

I just brewed a Bo Pils last evening and for a 6 gallon batch, I used .8oz of Magnum at 60 mins, 2oz of Saaz at 10 mins and 2oz of Saaz at 0 mins.

My last two have been Bo Pils with Saaz, 3 gal batches. I guess I'm pretty similar to your schedule, I bittered with Magnum and had either a 15 or 20 min Saaz addition and a FO addition for about 15 min before cooling. I used a half oz of Saaz for each and my first Pils has a bit of a harsh bitterness aftertaste so I was thinking maybe I over hopped the flavor addition. Looks like you pretty much doubled what I pitched.

 

[wobdee]

Not yet, but it has been on the to do list ever since I started doing them in my IPAs. I think it will work well too. Should be just the right amount of flavor and aroma that is just shy of a dry hop. Undecided if I will add a boil hop or a late addition as well.

Got a hefe and stout on deck though...

Best of luck!

I've done a lot of big long hop stands in my IPA's with good results so I'm thinking of doing away with all late boil additions in a Pils and just trying a single hop stand at FO.

 

[pjj2ba]

I tend to be a traditionalist with pilsners. I will typically only add 1/2 oz for flavor, and 1/4 oz for aroma. I want to taste the malt, and since the flavors are pretty mild, I find you don't need as much hops as you would use in the more strongly flavored ales to get the same level of hop flavor and aroma

 

[zwiller]

It will work. Still doing a bitter charge right? I am thinking a 60/40 or 70/30 IBU split. I use a 15' addition to estimate my 30' hopstand in Promash. It will be interesting to plug numbers in to see how much saaz/noble it will take to hit desired IBU (40ish for me). Hope to heck I don't need as much as my IPAs!

Not all techniques work. I call BS on FWH. Doesn't work for me. That said, the hopstand works better than late additions IMO. I think it's the lid trapping the volatiles. I stir every 5 minutes BTW.

 

[tootal]

The secret, IMHO, to pilsners is decoction mashing. Just a single decoction will give you the melanoidens that really give you that true pils flavor. As far as hops I would use all Saaz for BO pils and any Hallertau, Tetnang etc. for the German styles. I always do a trippel hopping. 60 minute, 15, which is actually 20 since I whirlpool for 5 minutes hot before I start cooling, and at flame out. Dry hopping with a hop tea will add some aroma too.

 

[JohnnyO]

I won a local competition with a german pils. Based ona recommendation in designing great beer (I think that's the title) I did four hop additions. 90, 50, 20 & whirlpool additions. All saaz. Came out great, but needed a good lagering period. Early tastes had a hop bite to it, but that mellowed as it lagered more.

Good luck with your brew!

 

[zwiller]

JohnnyO, nice to see I am not the only guy throwing saaz in NGP. Do you mind telling me what yeast you used? Last pils I used 2042 Danish it was pretty good but might switch up. I am gonna try and get one grain to glass in a month.

 

[wobdee]

I tend to be a traditionalist with pilsners. I will typically only add 1/2 oz for flavor, and 1/4 oz for aroma. I want to taste the malt, and since the flavors are pretty mild, I find you don't need as much hops as you would use in the more strongly flavored ales to get the same level of hop flavor and aroma

With a schedule like that wouldn't it be more of a Helles than a Pils? I thought a Pils was suppose to be more hop forward than malt?

 

[wobdee]

It will work. Still doing a bitter charge right? I am thinking a 60/40 or 70/30 IBU split. I use a 15' addition to estimate my 30' hopstand in Promash. It will be interesting to plug numbers in to see how much saaz/noble it will take to hit desired IBU (40ish for me). Hope to heck I don't need as much as my IPAs!

Not all techniques work. I call BS on FWH. Doesn't work for me. That said, the hopstand works better than late additions IMO. I think it's the lid trapping the volatiles. I stir every 5 minutes BTW.

Yeah, I was thinking .3oz Magnum at 60 for pretty much all the bitterness IBU's and 1oz Saaz 30 min hop stand for flavor and aroma. Not sure if 1oz Saaz may be too much for a 3 gal batch of Pils?

 

[pjj2ba]

With a schedule like that wouldn't it be more of a Helles than a Pils? I thought a Pils was suppose to be more hop forward than malt?

Not hop flavor and aroma forward - more bitter. I typically bitter a pilsner around 35-40 IBUs vs under 22 for a Helles

Pilsners traditionally are still supposed to be malty/grainy, with some hop flavors and aroma, not the other way around. However, it is becoming more common for some folks to go more hop forward with their pilsners. Perhaps that style will become more popular, and hopefully get it's own name/category

 

[wobdee]

Not hop flavor and aroma forward - more bitter. I typically bitter a pilsner around 35-40 IBUs vs under 22 for a Helles

Pilsners traditionally are still supposed to be malty/grainy, with some hop flavors and aroma, not the other way around. However, it is becoming more common for some folks to go more hop forward with their pilsners. Perhaps that style will become more popular, and hopefully get it's own name/category

OK, that makes sense. Maybe that new category should be an Imperial Pils?

 

[thegreatmaibockaddict]

I read or heard somewhere that German Breweries Mash hop the flavor and aroma hops.

Since I have been on a mash hop kick I have been doing this with one ounce in the mash (5 gallon batch). Hop variety is whatever you like, but Saaz I think was the best so far (need to make a Tettnanger pils soon).

Also, I was instructed by a pro brewer to use a couple ounces of acidulated malt in the mash (5 gallon, 8-9lbs pils malt). This helps lower PH a bit and provides a tad more crispness. Decoctions help with extending the malt flavor, but may also help with creating a very rocky thick and lasting head in the finished product that you can place a quarter on (not really but almost!)

And my boil profile is 15 minute pre-boil and 90 minute boil for bittering. Helps to assure all the DMS is removed.

 

[wobdee]

I read or heard somewhere that German Breweries Mash hop the flavor and aroma hops.

Since I have been on a mash hop kick I have been doing this with one ounce in the mash (5 gallon batch). Hop variety is whatever you like, but Saaz I think was the best so far (need to make a Tettnanger pils soon).

Also, I was instructed by a pro brewer to use a couple ounces of acidulated malt in the mash (5 gallon, 8-9lbs pils malt). This helps lower PH a bit and provides a tad more crispness. Decoctions help with extending the malt flavor, but may also help with creating a very rocky thick and lasting head in the finished product that you can place a quarter on (not really but almost!)

And my boil profile is 15 minute pre-boil and 90 minute boil for bittering. Helps to assure all the DMS is removed.

I looked into that mash hop technique and I thought most said it didn't work. Have you had good success with it? Did you replace the late additions with a mash hop?

 

[thegreatmaibockaddict]

I looked into that mash hop technique and I thought most said it didn't work. Have you had good success with it? Did you replace the late additions with a mash hop?

I don't know if you have read a lot of the lables on IPA's that have been coming out lately, but many have a mash hop component.

Mash hopping provides a round and subtle hop flavor and aroma, that somehow bonds to the wort and lasts right through the whole fermentation process without dissipating. I have made pale ales and IPA's with mash hop only to test it out and I thought it works well, but not if you are looking for a massive in-your-face hop character.

Mash hopping replaces late addition hops, and for brews that require a more subtle hop flavor and aroma, it works great, and it also eliminates those hops from being in your brew kettle, so less beer is lost to the unusable crap that settles to the bottom...

 

[JohnnyO]

JohnnyO, nice to see I am not the only guy throwing saaz in NGP. Do you mind telling me what yeast you used? Last pils I used 2042 Danish it was pretty good but might switch up. I am gonna try and get one grain to glass in a month.

I did an 11 gallon batch and there was a half pound of saaz in there. I actually had to also throw in a half ounce of fuggle in the bittering hops as the saaz I got were rated at 2.9%aa, a bit lower than what I had calculated for. Love saaz in a pils!

I used White Labs German Lager yeast. It's clean and lets the pilsner malt show off.

Not hop flavor and aroma forward - more bitter. I typically bitter a pilsner around 35-40 IBUs vs under 22 for a Helles

Pilsners traditionally are still supposed to be malty/grainy, with some hop flavors and aroma, not the other way around. However, it is becoming more common for some folks to go more hop forward with their pilsners. Perhaps that style will become more popular, and hopefully get it's own name/category

Check the BJCP guidelines for a German Pilsner. It's a very hop forward beer by those guidelines. I agree that the pilsner malt needs to be showcased, but having a strong (noble) hop element is true to style.

 

[zwiller]

I did an 11 gallon batch and there was a half pound of saaz in there. I actually had to also throw in a half ounce of fuggle in the bittering hops as the saaz I got were rated at 2.9%aa, a bit lower than what I had calculated for. Love saaz in a pils!

I used White Labs German Lager yeast. It's clean and lets the pilsner malt show off.

Thanks! :rockin:

 

[wobdee]

I don't know if you have read a lot of the lables on IPA's that have been coming out lately, but many have a mash hop component.

Mash hopping provides a round and subtle hop flavor and aroma, that somehow bonds to the wort and lasts right through the whole fermentation process without dissipating. I have made pale ales and IPA's with mash hop only to test it out and I thought it works well, but not if you are looking for a massive in-your-face hop character.

Mash hopping replaces late addition hops, and for brews that require a more subtle hop flavor and aroma, it works great, and it also eliminates those hops from being in your brew kettle, so less beer is lost to the unusable crap that settles to the bottom...

Interesting, looks like I have some experimenting to do.

 

[jaw94087]

Being a Hophead, I’ve only recently come to truly appreciate a good pilsner. The beer that turned my head is Firestone Walkers Pivo Pils. Consequently, I decided to try a clone recipe I found for Pivo Pils. However, after reviewing several other pilsner recipes, I’m thinking that I’d add one more ounce of spalt hops at flameout. Additionally another change is that I’m forced to use "Select Spalt" hops which are perhaps an additional .5-.75% greater AA than listed in the clone recipe. I would appreciate the collective wisdom regarding adding the additional hops at flameout. The recipe is as follows;
Malt
10 lbs German Pilsner 2-row
1 lb Vienna Malt
8 oz. lb Carapils
Hops
1/2 oz. Magnum 14%a, 60 minutes
1 oz. Spalt 4%a, 30 minutes
1 oz. Spalt 4%a, 15 minutes
Yeast: White Labs WLP800 Pilsner Lager Yeast
Dry-Hops: 1 oz. Saphir

 

[novahokie09]

Check the BJCP guidelines for a German Pilsner. It's a very hop forward beer by those guidelines. I agree that the pilsner malt needs to be showcased, but having a strong (noble) hop element is true to style.

Bohemian Pilsners are typically more malt forward, but still have noticeable hop charateristics. I'm sure this was what Philip was referencing.

 

[pjj2ba]

Check the BJCP guidelines for a German Pilsner. It's a very hop forward beer by those guidelines. I agree that the pilsner malt needs to be showcased, but having a strong (noble) hop element is true to style.

As per BJCP guidelines for a German Pilsner

"Hop bitterness dominates taste and continues through the finish and lingers into the aftertaste. Hop flavor can range from low to high but should only be derived from German noble hops. Clean, no fruity esters, no diacetyl."

So, bitterness, yes, but flavor and aroma can be all over the place. Balance is the key

Of the beers they list as good examples, Bitburger is not particularly bitter or strongly hop flavored. Jever is QUITE bitter.

I still think we need a new word to describe lots of hop flavor and aroma, to distinguish that from bitterness. I see/hear the word hoppy, and can't tell what a person means. I've met people who say they love hoppy beers, but then complain about something being too bitter