PicoPaks - REUSABLE?

[nickvasallo]

#PicoPak users: has anyone every tried reusing them? I just brewed my first PicoPak (in a #PicoC), cleaned it and it is in nice shape. I'm considering putting mash in a BIAB, and hop pellets in a sachet in the hoppack. I'm also wondering if this machine would work if we could make a container with the same vent holes and filters?

 

[senoird]

I just orderd a pico pro (best buy has a 20% off promo right now) and was thinking the same thing. Are the packs some type of plastic (HDPE)? Im sure this will be done as the cost of the packs for clones are more expensive than buying the bottle beer itself.

 

[alaric10000]

The paks aren't plastic. They're made from sugar cane husk.

 

[senoird]

Yea got it in yesterday not what i thought it would be made from. Im going to try to make a blank of the grain bin and the hop bin from an unused one and use some hdpe sheet to vacuum form a reusable setup. Only thing will be is I hope i can reuse the id sticker/holo tag thing so it will have brew steps.

 

[jrb03]

Nope, each RFID tag has a unique serial number, have to have internet connection so it can phone home, one time use.

 

[IslandLizard]

Nope, each RFID tag has a unique serial number, have to have internet connection so it can phone home, one time use.

What a rip off! Someone must have hacked this by now.

 

[nickvasallo]

Yea got it in yesterday not what i thought it would be made from. Im going to try to make a blank of the grain bin and the hop bin from an unused one and use some hdpe sheet to vacuum form a reusable setup. Only thing will be is I hope i can reuse the id sticker/holo tag thing so it will have brew steps.

Dude keep me posted! How do you make HDPE version?

 

[senoird]

Empty one of the containers (both grain and hops) fill them up with hydrostone to make a mold negative. Then vacuum form a sheet of hdpe to that. That should be fairly easy the id tag will be the issue. I need to take mine apart and see what they are using for the mcu. Really everything is already in the machine, may not be to hard to replace their mcu with a nodemcu or wemos. Cross that bridge when i get there.

 

[toadyus]

Hmm I should really buy one.... I bet I could reverse engineer the machine in minutes, they're probably just using an api call to send the data to the machine which figuring out the api call would be super easy with wireshark and ssl strip, if they're even using https and a simple dns redirect to point to an "internal" server serving up api calls that match what's coming from picobrew.

 

[macgyuver]

I am interested in seeing what the tags are LF,HF,or UHF and looking to arp poison the communications between the mothership and the actual unit. See if there is a way to do a man in the middle hack and send the data I want to the unit.

 

[NervousDad]

It's my goal to reverse engineer this thing. 25+ for 1.5 gallons of beer is just insane.

 

[macgyuver]

Had a brew night last night and while I will setting up the S pulling out the keg and such I noticed a few extra items from a BIAB that I recently did. Since I have not tried a few ideas that I have had about the picopaks I figured why not tonight. So I pulled the RFID tag from the Half Squeezed that I saved from the last pak brewed and tried to trigger it to brew. I was immediately met with a nice error, "ID is not in the database" so I knew that tag was shot. So I brewed the Brew Free or Die IPA I had on the shelf and figured I would try that tag once done. To my surprise once done that tag popped up ready to brew again. So I removed the top of the step filter and removed all the grain I could from the pak. Opened the hop filter and rinsed, added some hop pellets in hop bag I had left over from BIAB brew and placed back in the step filter. Then dropped 5lbs of grain in a bag into the picopak. Put everything back together and setup for another brew cycle. I had little hope that anything would work but it did... I have another batch of wort, not sure how it will taste but first impressions is not bad, in the extra keg fermenting now. This could be really useful for the Freestyle paks so you can double or maybe even triple the wort from the recipe if you have the extra grain ready. I only ran two cycles due to time constraints as you can see from the pic but I believe you can run the tag as long as it is still present on the mother ships database. Will have to test to see how long it resides there.

 

[macgyuver]

Checked the tag daily and on the third day it was kicked out. So far it seems the tag is held in the database for that long. So if whatever pak you are basing your brew on you can brew it under that one tag for at least 2 days if not 3. That’s a lot of wort! The two batches I ran are still fermenting but I should be able to taste them in the next week! I will keep everyone posted.

 

[DrSafety]

I am assuming you used distilled water in the brewing keg a second time and if so how did you treat the water for the second run? Burton salts? I believe the pico packs contain the preferred water treatments for the beer style being brewed.

 

[macgyuver]

I am assuming you used distilled water in the brewing keg a second time and if so how did you treat the water for the second run? Burton salts? I believe the pico packs contain the preferred water treatments for the beer style being brewed.

Yes I did as I would if I was doing my BIAB setup, checking PH and Acidity, added what was needed to bring water to what I need. Then brewed using the Pico to make the wort. Everything so far seems to be working great. This is just a test run though. I still have some activity on the air lock so fermentation is still rolling all though it has slowed.

 

[hopsaboutbeer]

Checked the tag daily and on the third day it was kicked out. So far it seems the tag is held in the database for that long. So if whatever pak you are basing your brew on you can brew it under that one tag for at least 2 days if not 3. That’s a lot of wort! The two batches I ran are still fermenting but I should be able to taste them in the next week! I will keep everyone posted.

Wow! This is fantastic. I look forward to hearing how your beers turn out. Nice work!

 

[IslandLizard]

It's my goal to reverse engineer this thing. 25+ for 1.5 gallons of beer is just insane.

You all know who owns the Zymatic company, right? Then these antics should not come as a surprise.

 

[macgyuver]

You all know who owns the Zymatic company, right? Then these antics should not come as a surprise.

Unless something has changed recently that I don't know about PicoBrew is not owned by any third party company. There are some investments from larger brewery company.

 

[IslandLizard]

Unless something has changed recently that I don't know about PicoBrew is not owned by any third party company. There are some investments from larger brewery company.

You're right they're not 100% owned by a 3rd party. Reportedly Zx-Ventures, a whole subsidiary of ABInBev, owns a "minority" stake in PicoBrew. Mind you, a "minority" stake can mean as much as 49%. Who has "actual control" is not as clearly defined.

 

[nickvasallo]

Yes I did as I would if I was doing my BIAB setup, checking PH and Acidity, added what was needed to bring water to what I need. Then brewed using the Pico to make the wort. Everything so far seems to be working great. This is just a test run though. I still have some activity on the air lock so fermentation is still rolling all though it has slowed.

I am going to try this soon using polycarbonate food storage containers with holes drilled emulating the picopak. How did your beer turn out?

 

[macgyuver]

I am going to try this soon using polycarbonate food storage containers with holes drilled emulating the picopak. How did your beer turn out?

So far they have turned out great. The IPA is tasty and the Pilsner is still fermenting but the taste was good when I started the fermentation.

 

[lutherslagers]

I just attempted what macgyuver has, but did not have success. I brewed a freestyle IPA picopak and then reloaded the pack with my own malt and hops immediately after the brew sessions. The pico model c gave me an error that the serial number needed to be registered. I went to the site to re-register the serial number and it recognized it but would not allow me re-brew it. I may have done something wrong but I didn't have success reusing the picopak. Real bummer for those of us who know how to design a recipe and keep our own ingredients on hand.

 

[macgyuver]

I have not done a freestyle yet so I don’t know if the ID tag will work for a second brew but I don’t see why it wouldn’t. I will have to order a freestyle and try it myself. I have been working on a stainless replacement for the pak itself so I can drop in my ingredients and not have to worry about the bag. Trying to mimic the pak design. I have seen some people using food grade plastic containers to replace the pak, I am looking for one that is about the same size to try.

 

[macgyuver]

Ok tonight I tried something new. This will lead into my next idea for playing with the setup. I normally run double brews when I brew a pak and at the end will run a side brew with a BIAB setup to try and tweak things to use my own supplies. I am working on a stainless pak replacement in my spare time at work. Will post pics once it is done. Anyway last night after my first pak brewed it hit me. Reuse the same ID tag for the second pak. This way I can save the tag from the second pak to use later. I have used several tags a few times but they are only good for a few days to a week before they are kicked out the database on the mother ship. While I was pulling the tag off the first pak the top pulled up as it usually does and the next idea hit me. The pak is not ruptured it is just wet. So I carefully cleaned it out and washed it out in the sink. Once done I threw it in my oven at 150 until it was dry. So I have two paks now that have been cleaned and dry. Hopefully in the next week I can setup a recipe using the timing of the paks I brewed last night. I have been working on tweaking that now. Once done I will load my grain and hops in the paks and brew like normal. Hopefully it works, I will let everyone know what the outcome is. And keep an eye out for the stainless pak, hopefully done in the next few weeks.

 

[stpauliboy]

And keep an eye out for the stainless pak, hopefully done in the next few weeks.

Looking forward to seeing how the SS filter turns out!

 

[stpauliboy]

Brewed a Helles Lager yesterday. This morning I stuck the RFID tag on the filter lid and plugged in the Pico. Looks like the tag is still valid and I could brew again with it after 1 day. I'll try again tomorrow.

 

[macgyuver]

Brewed a Helles Lager yesterday. This morning I stuck the RFID tag on the filter lid and plugged in the Pico. Looks like the tag is still valid and I could brew again with it after 1 day. I'll try again tomorrow.

Please do, I have done several tags so far and it varies on how long they stay in the database. I have had one go 10 days and one only go 3 days. Would like to know what others are getting for results.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

Is the tag system for the pack also relevant for the discontinued s model?

 

[macgyuver]

Is the tag system for the pack also relevant for the discontinued s model?

RFID tags are for the paks, which work in all Pico units. Pico S/Pro and the new Pico C.

The S is not really discontinued it is now the Pro. These are not really models but option packages. The unit itself is the same that I know of. If you have an S, as I do, there is an upgrade kit on Pico’s website to make it a Pro.

 

[tateconcepts]

Please do, I have done several tags so far and it varies on how long they stay in the database. I have had one go 10 days and one only go 3 days. Would like to know what others are getting for results.

The purpose of this is if there is an error with brewing and/or authentication or latency issues on the other end purging it from their database. While I am aware of how this can be removed, it will not be because the whole purpose was for microbreweries to be able to offer their own and "get out there" with a distributed model. It really wasn't truly meant as it was marketed for, the money is in the model not the design. If you want this, get a Zymatic and they will permit you to BYOB or DIYB. If that wasn't the plan, I would sell your Pico now.