PicoBrew Zymatic

[Anyhowe]

I stopped using mine and switched to the Brewer's Edge Mash and Boil. My brew days are about half the time I spent on the zymatic and alot less watching it.

Lol. brewed on the Z yesterday. Pushed the button, marinated some tuna, mowed the lawn and the the wife and I took a motorcycle trip and did some wine tasting. Got back and the brew was done.

My total z hands on time is maybe 60 minutes from grain grinds and hop measurement through cleanup. Fully auto systems throw the concept of brew day time out the window.

 

[Mike Howard]

bah ha ha .....

 

[kh54s10]

Lol. brewed on the Z yesterday. Pushed the button, marinated some tuna, mowed the lawn and the the wife and I took a motorcycle trip and did some wine tasting. Got back and the brew was done.

My total z hands on time is maybe 60 minutes from grain grinds and hop measurement through cleanup. Fully auto systems throw the concept of brew day time out the window.

From what I have read about these machines, they either work or they don't. Sometimes they work very well until something either changes, or a part fries, a valve doesn't close when it should, power failure and the program loses track.... Then the degree of the disaster varies.

Seems like a great idea that is still somewhat of a roll of the dice whether things will go smoothly or not.

 

[Sorrow]

Lol. brewed on the Z yesterday. Pushed the button, marinated some tuna, mowed the lawn and the the wife and I took a motorcycle trip and did some wine tasting. Got back and the brew was done.

My total z hands on time is maybe 60 minutes from grain grinds and hop measurement through cleanup. Fully auto systems throw the concept of brew day time out the window.

I had a lot of issue with my first Z overflowing, or throwing the Error #1. And just over all not running consistently enough where I had to baby sit it. Picobrew eventually replaced the whole unit, but several recipes were ruined while trying to get things to run. While I waited for the replacement Z, I got the Mash and Boil and started using that. The new unit they sent me, I used a small handful of times, but honestly I just don't trust it anymore. Would rather sell it off while it's still in good shape and fairly new to someone that wants to get involved with it but doesn't want to fork over the cash for a new unit.

 

[Mike Howard]

From what I have read about these machines, they either work or they don't. Sometimes they work very well until something either changes, or a part fries, a valve doesn't close when it should, power failure and the program loses track.... Then the degree of the disaster varies.

Seems like a great idea that is still somewhat of a roll of the dice whether things will go smoothly or not.

Best statement I have read yet... Most everyone knows the Zymatic has tons of issues...and since this is a Zymatic thread, it should be assumed that is what we are all talking about unless specifically saying Z1, Z2, etc...

Anyone who claims a Zym is failsafe has clearly never owned it long enough. This thread is a testament to the pain most of us have felt for quite some time. But now that word is out and plenty of us have opened our units and are developing better brewing practices, better cleaning practices and quite simply better knowledge of the MTBF and PM's that should be performed, it can be nearly painless.

 

[Anyhowe]

From what I have read about these machines, they either work or they don't. Sometimes they work very well until something either changes, or a part fries, a valve doesn't close when it should, power failure and the program loses track.... Then the degree of the disaster varies.

Seems like a great idea that is still somewhat of a roll of the dice whether things will go smoothly or not.

I will generally disagree. You are seeing cherry picked results. Put it this way, if there was a Forum in marriage,nobody would ever get married.

 

[kh54s10]

I will generally disagree. You are seeing cherry picked results. Put it this way, if there was a Forum in marriage,nobody would ever get married.

There seems to be an inordinate percentage that are getting the rotten cherry. I will stay away from automation until I don't see so many people having problems. Besides it is too expensive and most are too limiting for me.

 

[Lax coach]

I will generally disagree. You are seeing cherry picked results. Put it this way, if there was a Forum in marriage,nobody would ever get married.

And if there was a public forum comprised entirely of a company's employees promoting their product, everybody would think that product was perfect.

 

[Anyhowe]

And if there was a public forum comprised entirely of a company's employees promoting their product, everybody would think that product was perfect.

For sure! I never really thought about that. I wonder if they do that. With all of the news of people relying on reviews etc and now the news of fake reviews etc, that makes perfect sense that some companies would.

My Zymatic worked mostly flawlessly until it reached what it appeared to be the useful life of the hex loop. Then it started to go sideways. Fortunately for me the Z appeared. It too works as advertised and hopefully with the more modular design we can make component repairs along the way. Time will tell on that.

Brew on.

 

[Mike Howard]

The useful life of the HEX loop? It's a stainless plate style chiller in a closed circuit glycol loop with a cartridge RIMS. There is no "end of useful life", if you perform proper preventive maintenance. But that is something the guys at picobrew forgot to tell us about (if they even knew or know).

I'm waiting for the Z thread to become the death zone when those new Z's start to have their problems...keep your box, you'll need it.

 

[Mike Howard]

Jut FYI, but to access the Test Menu on the Zymatic do the following:

With the Zymatic turned off, press and hold the Rotary Menu Selector.
While the Rotary selector is depressed turn on the Zymatic.
Wait until the Loading Tests Menu message appears and then release the Rotary Selector.

This is useful when you perform a realignment of the Stepper arm after performing a PM on the unit. The Stepper Arm requires periodic cleaning and re-lubing of the seal, otherwise you'll eventually have a leak. I do this every 3 months along with various other maintenance tasks.

.

 

[blackcows]

I’ve read through most of this thread and several reviews on the Zymatic. I was an extract brewer for years, have close to 100 batches under my belt. Seems like as time goes on I have less time and less desire to brew but still like the thought of my own home brew on tap. I’ve found a used zymatic, less than 5 sessions the user says, for under $500. Is it worth taking a chance on?

 

[Mike Howard]

I think you'd be fine. We know enough about the Zymatic that we could help you fix 90% of any problems you might encounter.

Key things to look for would be these things:

Step Filter....that's the achilles heel of the Zymatic. If it has small cracks you'll need to super glue them, large cracks are harder to repair (not impossible). Not sure you can even get these old Zymatic step filters from PB anymore...I heard they might sell their spares though.

Make sure the machine powers on and the menu is displayed. You can't fix a bad board at this time.

If its local go take a look and have them perform a circulate or launch a recipe and do a quick test to ensure the heat sensors work.

I've been able to resolve every issue that I have ever had and my unit is a circa 2015. AFAIK the only things you can't repair/replace are the temp sensors and the main board as they are matched and coded in the software. Everything else we can outsource and repair on our own.

Good luck and happy brewing.

 

[dcbc]

Here's a different kind of Z story. I preordered a Z2 because I wanted a more hands off brew day. I waited and waited. By March 2019, I'd had enough and cancelled my order. I was happy to get my money back. But when I preordered, I sold my 20 Gallon, temp controlled Brutus 10 style rig with most of the trimmings, save for some kegs (and I picked up a 7.5 gallon brew bucket). Over the lengthy wait period for my Z2 (before finally cancelling), I basically lost the brew bug, which I'd maintained for a solid 18 years. So when I cancelled, I basically hung up my mash paddle. I kept the brew bucket and some kegs just in case I decide to go back. But if I do, I'm buying a Coleman cooler and some fittings along with a cheap 7 gallon kettle. I can have it all on the cheap, and it'll never break.

TLDR, I waited so long for the Z2, I quit the hobby after eighteen years.

 

[stpauliboy]

Sorry to hear that - I'm having a homebrew right now and it is tasty. Hope you get back into it in the future. At least you can buy good beer these days.

 

[Mike Howard]

@dcbc that's too bad. Don't let Picobrew's poor service dissuade you from a great experience. But, yea, I get you. You can do a lot for a very little if you decide to get back into it and you really do not need automation. Cheers!

 

[dcbc]

Sorry to hear that - I'm having a homebrew right now and it is tasty. Hope you get back into it in the future. At least you can buy good beer these days.

@dcbc that's too bad. Don't let Picobrew's poor service dissuade you from a great experience. But, yea, I get you. You can do a lot for a very little if you decide to get back into it and you really do not need automation. Cheers!

I appreciate the kind words. I enjoyed brewing, but the time commitment was becoming less workable, which is why I was looking for an appliance I could use indoors. At some point, I may have another go, but like I said, 5 gallon cooler batches are probably going to be the method. It was fun to play with the big equipment, but I think I would enjoy something I could do mostly in the kitchen at this point. Being in Texas, summers in the garage with the brewery pumping out BTUs was getting old.

 

[bigbrit9]

On the other hand there are a number of appliance type systems that are easy to use ie robobrew, Mash and boil and anvil foundry that while not having the same level of automation that that the 'z' does still make brewing more hands off. the anvil also has the ability to be switch between 110/220 allowing quicker ramp times and a more vigorous boil. And they all cost significantly less the the zigmatic.

 

[Mike Howard]

I second the Robobrew for indoor brewing, can't beat the price for what you get. I hear ya on the Texas weather...

 

[Brewfreedom]

From what I have read about these machines, they either work or they don't. Sometimes they work very well until something either changes, or a part fries, a valve doesn't close when it should, power failure and the program loses track.... Then the degree of the disaster varies.

Seems like a great idea that is still somewhat of a roll of the dice whether things will go smoothly or not.

I rank the Zymatic up there with having a roomba and pets. Its all good until someone decides to take a $hit and then the roomba smears it all over the house.

 

[Mike Howard]

@Brewfreedom bah ha ha ha ha....perfect

 

[Mike Howard]

FYI....been having that awesome Fatal Error #1 again lately and since I mostly brew on my super awesome BrewBoss 20 gallon, I decided to go ahead and do some major work and add an upgrade to the HEX loop.

Basically, I couldn't get the Zymatic to get passed the Heat To Temp stage and that usually means the glycol is low. But, my last brew that went through the Zym, I dumped after fermentation and carb. It had a chemical taste and I really think the glycol was leaking into the wort as it passed though the HEX. The taste was pretty much what the glycol smells like...

I pulled a sample of the beer before dumping it, so I could send it to the lab we use for testing, but I also pulled the HEX out and will do a pressure/leak down test and a dye test to see if that was really it.

So, since I have already dismantled the Zym, I figure I'll go ahead and replace the two pumps, the HEX, all the tubing and add a glycol reservoir that can be filled via an external port. That should eliminate the need for the dismantling of the lower end and all the time wasted trying to get all of the air out. I am going to mount the reservoir just ahead of the pump which will draw off the bottom. The glycol will enter the top and should be a natural mechanism to keep the pump from cavitating and sending air to the inline temp sensor or allow air to enter the RIMS module, which ultimatley causes the temp differential and then the error.

Also pulled the wort pump head apart just to see what it looks like and I'm glad I did. Going to add this to my bi-annual maintenance as the pump head was gunked up and I do a pretty legit cleaning regime. Going to tear it down all the way to see how best to clean it in the future.

Here are a couple of pics I took after dismantling the lower end. Looks like the HEX is a 12 plate and is 8-1/4 x 3-1/4 x 1-1/4, although I think I'm going to go with a 20 plate that I found which is 7-1/2 x 2 x 1-3/4, it looks like that should fit and is redily available.

 

[Allan M Tiso]

FYI....been having that awesome Fatal Error #1 again lately and since I mostly brew on my super awesome BrewBoss 20 gallon, I decided to go ahead and do some major work and add an upgrade to the HEX loop....

Hi Mike, Let us know how that lab comes back! Might just toss my unit if the glycol can end up in the beer. "Made in China" doesn't make me feel good either.

 

[Allan M Tiso]

FYI....been having that awesome Fatal Error #1 again lately and since I mostly brew on my super awesome BrewBoss 20 gallon, I decided to go ahead and do some major work and add an upgrade to the HEX loop.

Basically, I couldn't get the Zymatic to get passed the Heat To Temp stage and that usually means the glycol is low. But, my last brew that went through the Zym, I dumped after fermentation and carb. It had a chemical taste and I really think the glycol was leaking into the wort as it passed though the HEX. The taste was pretty much what the glycol smells like...

I pulled a sample of the beer before dumping it, so I could send it to the lab we use for testing, but I also pulled the HEX out and will do a pressure/leak down test and a dye test to see if that was really it.

So, since I have already dismantled the Zym, I figure I'll go ahead and replace the two pumps, the HEX, all the tubing and add a glycol reservoir that can be filled via an external port. That should eliminate the need for the dismantling of the lower end and all the time wasted trying to get all of the air out. I am going to mount the reservoir just ahead of the pump which will draw off the bottom. The glycol will enter the top and should be a natural mechanism to keep the pump from cavitating and sending air to the inline temp sensor or allow air to enter the RIMS module, which ultimatley causes the temp differential and then the error.

Also pulled the wort pump head apart just to see what it looks like and I'm glad I did. Going to add this to my bi-annual maintenance as the pump head was gunked up and I do a pretty legit cleaning regime. Going to tear it down all the way to see how best to clean it in the future.

Here are a couple of pics I took after dismantling the lower end. Looks like the HEX is a 12 plate and is 8-1/4 x 3-1/4 x 1-1/4, although I think I'm going to go with a 20 plate that I found which is 7-1/2 x 2 x 1-3/4, it looks like that should fit and is redily available.

View attachment 635905 View attachment 635906 View attachment 635907

Hey Mike,
Did you ever send off that sample to the lab? Just curious.

 

[Mike Howard]

I did, they are a bit behind on results. I'll post the results up when I get them though.

 

[Mike Howard]

No glycol in the results...no infection either.

 

[alestateyall]

No glycol in the results...no infection either.

What does Pico use Glycol for?

 

[Allan M Tiso]

What does Pico use Glycol for?

Mike is going to be the expert here having torn down his machines several times. But, as I understand it, the glycol is directly heated and the wort is heated indirectly as the glycol and the wort pass through a plate heat exchanger.

 

[Mike Howard]

Correct. The Glycol is heated in a closed loop RIMS system and is circulated through one side of the heat exchanger. The wort passes from the keg, into the heat exchanger and then out to the step filter.

 

[Allan M Tiso]

Correct. The Glycol is heated in a closed loop RIMS system and is circulated through one side of the heat exchanger. The wort passes from the keg, into the heat exchanger and then out to the step filter.

Mike, what do you think of replacing the zymatic heater AND the heat exchanger with a 120V Blichmann RIMS Rocket?

 

[Travis_Zymatic]

Mike, what do you think of replacing the zymatic heater AND the heat exchanger with a 120V Blichmann RIMS Rocket?

The Blichmann is 10" H x 6.5" W. Assuming the coil efficiency is comparable to the stock plate based HEX unless you plan on running it externally there's not enough clearance in the lower Zymatic case to fit.

 

[Travis_Zymatic]

FYI....been having that awesome Fatal Error #1 again lately and since I mostly brew on my super awesome BrewBoss 20 gallon, I decided to go ahead and do some major work and add an upgrade to the HEX loop.

Basically, I couldn't get the Zymatic to get passed the Heat To Temp stage and that usually means the glycol is low. But, my last brew that went through the Zym, I dumped after fermentation and carb. It had a chemical taste and I really think the glycol was leaking into the wort as it passed though the HEX. The taste was pretty much what the glycol smells like...

I pulled a sample of the beer before dumping it, so I could send it to the lab we use for testing, but I also pulled the HEX out and will do a pressure/leak down test and a dye test to see if that was really it.

So, since I have already dismantled the Zym, I figure I'll go ahead and replace the two pumps, the HEX, all the tubing and add a glycol reservoir that can be filled via an external port. That should eliminate the need for the dismantling of the lower end and all the time wasted trying to get all of the air out. I am going to mount the reservoir just ahead of the pump which will draw off the bottom. The glycol will enter the top and should be a natural mechanism to keep the pump from cavitating and sending air to the inline temp sensor or allow air to enter the RIMS module, which ultimatley causes the temp differential and then the error.

Also pulled the wort pump head apart just to see what it looks like and I'm glad I did. Going to add this to my bi-annual maintenance as the pump head was gunked up and I do a pretty legit cleaning regime. Going to tear it down all the way to see how best to clean it in the future.

Here are a couple of pics I took after dismantling the lower end. Looks like the HEX is a 12 plate and is 8-1/4 x 3-1/4 x 1-1/4, although I think I'm going to go with a 20 plate that I found which is 7-1/2 x 2 x 1-3/4, it looks like that should fit and is redily available.

View attachment 635905 View attachment 635906 View attachment 635907

Hmm that's not a terrible idea on the HEX upgrade. Where'd you find the 12 plate with those dimens?

It looks to me like these are the pumps here? At $30 a pop might not that bad to replace every few years. Have you tried contacting SeaFlo to see if they offer replacement diaphragms?

 

[Allan M Tiso]

The Blichmann is 10" H x 6.5" W. Assuming the coil efficiency is comparable to the stock plate based HEX unless you plan on running it externally there's not enough clearance in the lower Zymatic case to fit.

My worry is the higher watt rating of the Blichmann (2000 vs 1500) since I would plan to wire it directly in to see if it would turn on at appropriate times. The plan for the zymatic is to totally restructure it to make all problem area immediately accessible. It will be open frame with plenty room for the rocket. Option b would be a 1500 watt low density heater with my own fabricated containment.

 

[Travis_Zymatic]

My worry is the higher watt rating of the Blichmann (2000 vs 1500) since I would plan to wire it directly in to see if it would turn on at appropriate times. The plan for the zymatic is to totally restructure it to make all problem area immediately accessible. It will be open frame with plenty room for the rocket. Option b would be a 1500 watt low density heater with my own fabricated containment.

It's possible you might be able to use the existing heat cycling logic already onboard the Zymatic but otherwise you'd also need to get your flow rate correct and/or be able to modulate power delivery to the heating element to prevent scorching.

 

[Mike Howard]

Hmm that's not a terrible idea on the HEX upgrade. Where'd you find the 12 plate with those dimens?

It looks to me like these are the pumps here? At $30 a pop might not that bad to replace every few years. Have you tried contacting SeaFlo to see if they offer replacement diaphragms?

I contacted SeaFlo awhile back when I was asking about the fact that the pumps Picobrew uses are only rated to 140F. At that time I asked if they had pump heads that were safe to use at those temps and they said no. I did not pursue any other options with them at the time.

The Heat Exchanger I am targetting is a 20 plate, made by Ferroday and the pumps I am looking at are these. The reservoir I ordered is this one from Tasan Racing and it just fits in the void on the left side above the pump. I am currently replumbing everything and will post pics soon.

 

[aangel]

Hey Mike - thanks for all the info about keeping my Zymatic running. Got a question for ya - my step filter has tons of little cracks at corners. What can I do to keep this thing running?

 

[Mike Howard]

@aangel I use Super Glue on the outside, have to do this periodically, but it works pretty good. Make sure you use the thin stuff and not the gel. Also, I am in the process of making a Stainless Steel Step Filter and will post info as soon as I have it working.

 

[Brewfreedom]

Hey Mike - thanks for all the info about keeping my Zymatic running. Got a question for ya - my step filter has tons of little cracks at corners. What can I do to keep this thing running?

Used food grade silicone epoxy on mine when they opened up w cracks which usually took about 3 months of light use. Would hold up for a while.

 

[seabrew]

I am currently replumbing everything and will post pics soon.

How did the replumb project go? Did it fix anything?

My Zymatic stopped heating and it's out of warranty. I ran the full system test, and it appears the heat pump doesn't work. Keg and drain pumps work, but when it gets to heat pump test, nothing fires up. I've run cleaning cycles several times and gunk comes out, but it doesn't heat up on its own.

(Long time lurker, first time poster.)

 

[Bilsch]

@aangel I use Super Glue on the outside, have to do this periodically, but it works pretty good. Make sure you use the thin stuff and not the gel. Also, I am in the process of making a Stainless Steel Step Filter and will post info as soon as I have it working.

Isn’t cyanoacrylate also a yeast nutrient?