PicoBrew Zymatic

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By the way, some more info for the Troubleshooting Guide. I'll edit the post above to include this info.

In addition to removing the springs and poppets from your Picobrew Keg, wrap several layers of plumbers teflon tape around the post and apply a bit of keg lube to insure a good seal. The Zym is notorious for throwing the FE #1 error due to sucking air.

Also, I rinse my Zym before every brew with very hot tap water. This will ALWAYS result in a FE #1 error even with their "Equalizing Temps" process they added during the last firmware update. As a prior life Control Engineer for a major semiconductor firm, this irks me to no end. It is very simple to write a smart control loop to eliminate this issue for good. To avoid this issue, always run the Help > Circulate until the HEX loop temp matches your brew water temp. Then you can start your recipe as normal.
 
So it just took 6 tries to get my Zym to actually start running my recipe. The more I investigate the FE #1 error the more I realize that this error has no actual process control surrounding it. It's a "no go" indicator with absolutely no smarts behind it. Behaves like a developer hack to me. Here is the initial graph upon starting my recipe and within 60 seconds the Zym failed for FE #1.

Now as you can see from the data, I am within the 50 degree boundary that is supposed to trigger this error. It looks like the error was tripped from the temp sensor actually on the heating element, because the HEX and Wort values are within 31 degrees.

My guess is that the temp sensor may be failing or there is an air pocket in my HEX loop again. I fixed this once before by burping the HEX loop but now maybe I need to add some more glycol and burp it again.

Tilting the machine from side to side while it is on (as the HEX loop pump runs continuously) can sometimes move the air bubble away from the temp sensor and let you continue the process, but not always.

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I hate FE #1 because it is a catch all. The software should clearly be able to distinguish between the three sensors and throw an appropriate error...not fall out of the loop and generate the FE #1 all the time. In my mind there are some very important pieces of data that you need to both control your heat loop and protect your equipment. Temp of your incoming wort, temp of your outgoing wort, temp of your HEX loop, temp of your heating element, temp that the software is calling for and the heating element power percent. Seems they missed some of these.
 
A little perspective could be good here, at least it is for me. This was the first of its kind to the market, now many years ago. The fact that there is really only one other machine, the Brewie, that competes in concept says a lot. And about the Brewie? Well lets not go there.

There has to this date been no real evolution of the original unit, yet some strides have been made outside of this with the Pico's and their generations. I expect the Z to be an evolved version of the Zymatic with lessons learned from both the original and the Pico units. It will be better in every aspect I believe. It won't be perfect. I expect we will ***** about it from release date til Version 3 comes out some 5 years down the line.

Quite possibly, and reasonably, some of the heavily used machines are reaching their day? IDK. Quite possibly our experiences and comments are simply hindsight proving that it has 20/20 vision? I expect that many choices and 'compromises' were made to get this into production on both the software and hardware front. Reality has shown that their choices were better than those choices made by the other guys.

It is a remarkable device that nobody has yet reliably improved upon. With that I give the Pico folks a lot of credit. It's not perfect, but its damn good! I look forward to V2.
 
Agreed. I actually love my Zymatic...now that I do all the maintenance on it and one reason I chose to get the Z2. My comments, if they are negative, are completely and only against the Service department. More like a buyer beware, get it, but know what you are getting into.

This thread can hopefully be a one stop shop for folks who have one and really want the scoop on their machine and not the smoke and mirrors that Picobrew pushes out.
 
it has been radio silence from them. Maybe they are really busy.
More likely ignoring what they don't have the resources to fix. Next is the ban hammer. S
Agreed. I actually love my Zymatic...now that I do all the maintenance on it and one reason I chose to get the Z2. My comments, if they are negative, are completely and only against the Service department. More like a buyer beware, get it, but know what you are getting into.

This thread can hopefully be a one stop shop for folks who have one and really want the scoop on their machine and not the smoke and mirrors that Picobrew pushes out.

The Zymatic rocks. But it could be better and it should be better and Picobrew has done nothing to make that happen over the last few years other than the recent cash grab for vapor product development. I'd love to see what the cancelations have been on the Z. They are a rounding error for real brew gear companies like SS and Spike yet they carry on with the arrogance of a Tesla.
 
A little perspective could be good here, at least it is for me. This was the first of its kind to the market, now many years ago. The fact that there is really only one other machine, the Brewie, that competes in concept says a lot. And about the Brewie? Well lets not go there.
Grainfather, brewboss, robobrew and a few others. Pico is the only one that must phone home and wants to pretend its a pilot system for real brewing while depending on a plastic bin that is only good for 10 brew sessions.
 
Didn't even get into the Speidel system. Sure none are 100% hands free. Zymatic isn't either. Good luck using it more than once for the pitiful amount of wort it produces without issues. Its great when it works. It sure as sheisse isnt a pilot system or for professional brewers. The people supporting it are barely professional.
 
There are a lot of improvements that the Zymatic could use to make it a worthy brewing system. Is it better than everything else out there that claims to be fully or partially automated...Yes. Is it the best fully automated or partially automated brewing system...No Way. It's got a long way to go.

I'm a bit concerned that the "engineering" team at Picobrew doesn't fully understand the upgrades that need to be made on this system. All of the changes I have seen so far appear to be mostly cosmetic or related to size increases. Just the sheer fact that they are using the SeaFlo pumps again tells me its more about cost to profit than it is about actually producing a high quality, customizable and programmable, fully automated brewing system.

I have been brewing 6 gallon batches on my Zymatic for some time now and in looking at the new Z2, it appears they are going to be mimicing what I already do to get that amount. I'm hoping I'm wrong, but the system design sure does point to that. Having invested in the Z2, I was wanting upgraded parts that included Stainless Steel components, an easy, more efficient cleaning process, more user serviceable parts and the ability to upgrade to larger batches easily. The jury is still out for me on these items.
 
There are a lot of improvements that the Zymatic could use to make it a worthy brewing system. Is it better than everything else out there that claims to be fully or partially automated...Yes. Is it the best fully automated or partially automated brewing system...No Way. It's got a long way to go.

I'm a bit concerned that the "engineering" team at Picobrew doesn't fully understand the upgrades that need to be made on this system. All of the changes I have seen so far appear to be mostly cosmetic or related to size increases. Just the sheer fact that they are using the SeaFlo pumps again tells me its more about cost to profit than it is about actually producing a high quality, customizable and programmable, fully automated brewing system.

I have been brewing 6 gallon batches on my Zymatic for some time now and in looking at the new Z2, it appears they are going to be mimicing what I already do to get that amount. I'm hoping I'm wrong, but the system design sure does point to that. Having invested in the Z2, I was wanting upgraded parts that included Stainless Steel components, an easy, more efficient cleaning process, more user serviceable parts and the ability to upgrade to larger batches easily. The jury is still out for me on these items.

How are you brewing your 6gal batches? Topping off at the end of the brew? I have done 4gal batches (without top off water at the end of the brew) I was also thinking about looking for a larger brew keg 7-10gal
 
Man the amount of FUD & bashing going on here is impressive, and it depresses me to see it - it would be nice if moderates could strike out all the crap and let the conversation focus on the *actual* users discussing their systems.

Anyway: I'm curious about brewing cold-brew coffee in my zymatic. Does anyone have a guide? I'm assuming that I can just dump a ton of coarsely-ground coffee where the mash grains would normally go, and run a room temperature cycle for a few hours, cutting down the cold-brew steeping time considerably?
 
=

Anyway: I'm curious about brewing cold-brew coffee in my zymatic. Does anyone have a guide? I'm assuming that I can just dump a ton of coarsely-ground coffee where the mash grains would normally go, and run a room temperature cycle for a few hours, cutting down the cold-brew steeping time considerably?

That is a great idea. Would love to hear as well.
 
Man the amount of FUD & bashing going on here is impressive, and it depresses me to see it - it would be nice if moderates could strike out all the crap and let the conversation focus on the *actual* users discussing their systems.

Anyway: I'm curious about brewing cold-brew coffee in my zymatic. Does anyone have a guide? I'm assuming that I can just dump a ton of coarsely-ground coffee where the mash grains would normally go, and run a room temperature cycle for a few hours, cutting down the cold-brew steeping time considerably?

Also curious about the cold brew process. I see early backers will get a freebie cold brew pico pak with the Z. May have to add a nitro tap.
 
Also curious about the cold brew process. I see early backers will get a freebie cold brew pico pak with the Z. May have to add a nitro tap.

I need to add my five cents. I own a Braumeister BM20 Plus and love the machine and the support. It has never failed me. I also had two different Brewie and both failed, and returned them. I purchased a Pico Pro and a Zymatic. Did my first Zymatic brew on Sunday and it was successful, except I had a small leak from the step filter. Emailed PicoBrew support Sunday and within a couple of hours I got a response telling me that they were sending me a replacement step filter. Today, Monday I got the tracking number for the new shipped step filter.

That is what I call OUTSTANDING CUSTOMER SUPPORT.
 
Man the amount of FUD & bashing going on here is impressive, and it depresses me to see it - it would be nice if moderates could strike out all the crap and let the conversation focus on the *actual* users discussing their systems.

Anyway: I'm curious about brewing cold-brew coffee in my zymatic. Does anyone have a guide? I'm assuming that I can just dump a ton of coarsely-ground coffee where the mash grains would normally go, and run a room temperature cycle for a few hours, cutting down the cold-brew steeping time considerably?

Mike has posted a lot of valuable information that picobrew has banned and harassed people over. Good companies don't do that. They work with their customers to ensure threads like this are unnecessary. Are you doubting that he is an actual user?
 
Mike has posted a lot of valuable information that picobrew has banned and harassed people over. Good companies don't do that. They work with their customers to ensure threads like this are unnecessary. Are you doubting that he is an actual user?

My personal experience with Picobrew customer service, both for my Pico Pro and the Zymatic, is completely the opposite. In fact the fast response by Doug, Kevin, Joshua, Aldan, and Ryan (these are the customer service people I have dealt with) has been nothing short of outstanding. I have email them with questions pre-purchase, concerns, shipping questions, tips about using the equipment and the problems with the step filter, and have without exception received answers within a couple of hours. The best example is the step filter leak. Reported it to Joshua on Sunday early afternoon and got a response from him two hours later, and a follow up with shipping information on Monday morning (see emails below)

__________________________________________________________________________
SUNDAY RESPONSE:
Your request (54589) has been updated. To add additional comments, reply to this email.

20170121_182055.jpg

Joshua (PicoBrew Inc.)

Aug 26, 16:40 PDT

Hi Richard,

Sorry that step filter is leaking, we can send you out a new one.

For that you have already, you can use NSF Rated Clear silicone, bathroom & kitchen. It will only work temporarily for small cracks, it is not a long term solution.
You can use that and keep it for cleaning sessions.
Cheers!
Joshua
_________________________________________________________________________
MONDAY RESPONSE:
The shipping status of your order has been updated. Please use the link below to track your order status.

Check Order Status

Enjoy Brewing,

The PicoBrew Team
_________________________________________________________________________

I hope they continue providing their outstanding support. That is why I switched from Brewie to Pico. My five-cents.
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My personal experience with Picobrew customer service, both for my Pico Pro and the Zymatic, is completely the opposite. In fact the fast response by Doug, Kevin, Joshua, Aldan, and Ryan (these are the customer service people I have dealt with) has been nothing short of outstanding. I have email them with questions pre-purchase, concerns, shipping questions, tips about using the equipment and the problems with the step filter, and have without exception received answers within a couple of hours. The best example is the step filter leak. Reported it to Joshua on Sunday early afternoon and got a response from him two hours later, and a follow up with shipping information on Monday morning (see emails below)

View attachment 585708 View attachment 585709 View attachment 585710

A poster on one of the facebook forums was told no step filters for you because he has already gotten one in the last 6 months. I've had them fail with corner cracks that only open under the heat you get from a mash or cleaning in as little as 6 weeks. But yes they can handle stupid things like sending you a new filter provided they continue to stock them. And it helps doing big batches when you have a few years of them patched up with epoxy. Good luck if you have an issue with pumps, heat exchangers or the stepper arm. All wear and tear items that they have stated will now require you to send them in and fix for fee/rebuild. We are at a point with this product where its going to be important to be able to self support and repair outside of pico. Unless of course you want to jump onto the ponZ and hope its a better deal. Just finished the 240 line that was potentially going to power a Z2 if they could get their act together by September.
 
Put it this way..... after the experience I had with Brewie, Pico support is wonderful in comparison. I agree with you about the concern of not being able to fix it by ourselves. Frankly, I do not understand why they have not changed the material used for the step filter. My guess is that it is costing Pico a lot of money with all these filter replacements. Mine ws a new one with only one clean cycle and one brew.
 
My personal experience with Picobrew customer service, both for my Pico Pro and the Zymatic, is completely the opposite. In fact the fast response by Doug, Kevin, Joshua, Aldan, and Ryan (these are the customer service people I have dealt with) has been nothing short of outstanding.

I've had 3 step filters so far...just because a company emails you back within a few hours telling you they will send you a replacement part (for an obvious engineering snafu) does not make them outstanding. You'll see how good their customer support is once you have a real problem...

Man the amount of FUD & bashing going on here is impressive, and it depresses me to see it - it would be nice if moderates could strike out all the crap and let the conversation focus on the *actual* users discussing their systems....

Moderators won't strike any of this information because it is backed by fact and good for the whole of the community. I'm sorry you disagree, but the information I posted actually helps a lot of folks who own a Zymatic. Several of us on here have torn our Zymatics down to the bare bones and we fully understand the inner workings and its short-comings. We have also had years of working with their customer support on more than just a simple leak issue.
 
How are you brewing your 6gal batches? Topping off at the end of the brew? I have done 4gal batches (without top off water at the end of the brew) I was also thinking about looking for a larger brew keg 7-10gal

No, I am not doing top-offs. I brew two 3 gallon batches and blend them together at the end. One is a hybrid recipe that only contains the Mash, the other recipe is a full Mash and Boil. I'm working on a third recipe and a larger brew kettle so I don't have to perform a separate boil on my stove for the first batch. So I'd perform a Mash for the first batch, then repeat for the second batch, blend them and perform the boil. In the process of getting all the parts together to put together a 7 gallon boil kettle.
 
Speaking of helping Zymatic users...if you are having repeated FE #1 while attempting to start your brew, I have come up with a recipe fix for that. Over the last 5 or 6 brews I have been testing a theory and it seems to be working.

As the Zymatic gets older, mine is a circa 2016 unit, the HEX loop and the brew pump begin to operate inefficiently. The system just can't handle trying to go from 70 F degree water to 102 F degree water without overramping the HEX element and throwing the infamous Fatal Error #1.

To solve this issue I have created a pre-heat recipe that slowly ramps the heat up to temp in steps and that seems to have solved the issue.

Frequently I have been having to restart my brew process 5,6, 7 even 8 times in order to get the brew to take off. Its always the same, the glycol loop gets an air bubble or the HEX doesn't transfer the heat quick enough and bam...FE #1. Here is the raw data from my last run which is about 60 F degrees different.

upload_2018-8-30_1-2-57.png


I've known about the poor HEX design and the poor glycol loop and last time I tore it down had to burp the fluid. However, after implementing the gradual heating process I do not see the FE #1 startup error anymore. Basically I created an Advanced recipe that gradually increases the temp and performs a simple rest to equalize the temps.

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After this runs I just start my recipe as normal and everything is ok. So far I have been running this recipe separately because I have just been testing, but now, since I run a dual recipe for brews anyway, I'll be adding these recipe steps to the beginning of my brewing recipes and call it a day.
 
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This looks interesting. Could you please post the printout of the advanced editor with your additional entries?
 
Speaking of helping Zymatic users...if you are having repeated FE #1 while attempting to start your brew, I have come up with a recipe fix for that. Over the last 5 or 6 brews I have been testing a theory and it seems to be working.

As the Zymatic gets older, mine is a circa 2016 unit, the HEX loop and the brew pump begin to operate inefficiently. The system just can't handle trying to go from 70 F degree water to 102 F degree water without overramping the HEX element and throwing the infamous Fatal Error #1.

Hey Mike, I have read your posts with interest. Maybe we need a new thread just for this kind of stuff?? This discussion is likely just causing confusion with the masses. But that is just my 2 pennies. FWIW I am open to discussion, but I have no desire to argue about this, I don't need to be right, and I don't want to get into the middle of any user/PICO drama with one user (not you) in particular. I am just sharing my thoughts.

"Hex Loop and brew pump beginning to operate inefficiently." Hmmm, really? An inefficient brew pump is easily replaced, but I question how this would actually happen on a large scale and be a wide spread problem. Wearing out a pump like this would be irregular. Regarding the heat exchanger efficiency, well that is pretty straight fwd physics of thermal equilibrium. The only logical ways to have the spike version of Fault #1 happen that I can see are:

1) the heating element no longer functions properly. But this would likely result in less of a spike not more. But in the end it should be an easy diagnosis and/or replacement. But again, because of the spike we are talking about that causes Fault #1, I do not see this as the problem.

2) Not enough liquid to dissipate the heat from the exchanger causing a abnormal rise in the temperature of the heat loop. This would be caused by inefficient flow though the wort pump. See my thoughts on pump efficiency above. If this actually was the case I would expect it to be caused by air leaks in the intake line or blockages and not with the pump itself. Simply removing the ball locks and and keg from the equation is the easy test here and removes most all the variables. Just put the open ended black line into a bucket of water instead of connecting it to a keg, and run the cycle. Your case may be different, but again in general, I just don't think it is a problem with the pump itself.

3) a physical barrier slowing/not allowing the natural thermal equilibrium process to take place. Thus, the heat transfer does not take place like it is suppose to and the heat loop gets too hot and boom, fault #1. This is likely the problem for anyone having this issue. You may be different.

I had the same problem, and in the end it was #3 with a caramelized buildup preventing heat transfer. It took some 15 plus cleaning cycles (14 of which failed Fault #1) and several days to solve it. I only got it to work with creative hot water additions, quickly switching between v1 and v6 cleaning cycles, quickly re running the cycles and skipping steps to get back to where I was, and wrapping the keg to reduce heat loss. Again one has to quickly repeat the cycles to keep the temperature up. Eventually it will get though the V6 cleaning cycle. Once it was complete, I did it again, and it worked beginning to end. I then ran it through the (more difficult heating cycle of) the standard cleaning cycle and it worked as well. I then heated an imaginary beer up from dead cold and it worked as well. I expect (not trying to sound like Kevin) that it will be, for the majority of users, a barrier problem/cleaning issue.

The end story here for me is that is NOT a mechanical Zymatic issue, it is a cleaning issue. Better cleaning cycles provided by PICO, and better more regular cleaning by the operator will go a long way to solve the issue in the long term for any folks who may suffer from this issue.
 
Spoken like a true Picobrew employee.....lol....Kevin tried telling me the same thing, until I finally dismantled my Zymatic.

No, I gaurantee you its not a cleaning issue. I mini-clean my Zymatic after every brew session now, using a modified clean recipe and do a complete soak and clean every 3 brewing sessions. I almost never see any gunk of any kind on my screens unless I just finished brewing a stout or porter. Besides, its been my experience that HEX cleaning issues usually show up in your boil step first and present itself as a very eratic control loop. I used to have all sorts of boil issues and consistency issues but I have solved all of those. My only issue, that I have now solved, is the FE #1 at the start of the brew. Once the Zymatic reaches 102, I have never seen it error out for FE #1, at least not my machine.

I have disassembled my Zymatic about half a dozen times now, checking for pump related issues, HEX issues, and to just keep an eye on buildup, etc... Ever since I had my falling out with Pico, I started doing my own data collection and analysis on the components and brew sessions trying to figure out the weak points. I have spoken with SeaFlo about the pumps used in this environment and despite the BS that Pico is throwing out, they do not recommend it. That being said, the temps tend to wear out the diaphragm and they said could even cause punctures. I have taken apart the pump heads and inspected my diaphragms and do not see any issues, but I have no way to test for elasticity. I am ordering some new pump heads though, to prove if that is the case or not and will do a pump gpm test to see if there are any differences before/after. If nothing else, it will put to rest the pump being the culprit.

No doubt your 1, 2 and 3 issues above can cause problems, but in my case and I'm sure many others, those are not always the solutions. I am still going to maintain that the HEX loop temp sensor location and gaps in the fluid are the primary concern, followed closely by the wort pump itself. We will see if my FE #1 fix stands the test of time, but so far it is working. Manually at first, but now with the Advanced recipe entered, I'll auto increment the temps.

I've only ever seen the FE #1 error during cleaning one time and that was just recently...totally my fault though. I usually have my keg at the same height as my Zymatic...same table. I started a clean, but accidentally spilled a bunch of water on the table so without thinking just grabbed up my keg and moved it to the floor. It did not like the change in height and Im sure it caused a change in wort flow and bammo...FE #1. Putting the keg back on the same table and restarting the clean...completed without a hitch.

I also am not here to argue, just putting out the information I have learned over the last 2.5 years so that others may (or may not) benefit from it. Its all I was doing over on the Picobrew forums, but they are such control freaks about that kind of stuff that everyone over there is in the dark. My preference would be just to leave it all in this post rather than spread it out. This is pretty much the one stop shop for Zymatic issues and discussions.

Defnitiely agree that a very strict cleaning regime is needed for the Zymatic and its way beyond what Picobrew recommends. When it comes to the Zymatic...BE A CLEAN FREAK.
 
Spoken like a true Picobrew employee.....lol..... I usually have my keg at the same height as my Zymatic...same table. I started a clean, but accidentally spilled a bunch of water on the table so without thinking just grabbed up my keg and moved it to the floor
Hmmm. First boil, and an increase in pump head required cause problems definetly points to the pump system being your issue. Again, I think it can be only 2 or 3 things. Air in the system reducing flow ( prime problem or leakage), or the pump itself. I am sure you have gone well past that. Lol. Looking fwd to the new pump. Have you put your black line directly in the bucket bypassing the ball lock and keg fittings? I know for a fact my pump will overcome the head of being on the floor. Yours should as well So you are either pumping air, there is a blockage or the pump is bad.
 
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Have you put your black line directly in the bucket bypassing the ball lock and keg fittings?

Yea, but it does not make a difference.

I am about to get a new inline filter that has a bigger surface area and a clear sight glass. Awhile back I had issues with air leaks at the keg posts, but solved that by putting on new seals, wrapping with teflon tape and applying a bit of keg lube. Now there is no cavitation on my black lines. A clear inline filter would make it easier to spot that problem if it comes up again.
 
Yea, but it does not make a difference.

I am about to get a new inline filter that has a bigger surface area and a clear sight glass. Awhile back I had issues with air leaks at the keg posts, but solved that by putting on new seals, wrapping with teflon tape and applying a bit of keg lube. Now there is no cavitation on my black lines. A clear inline filter would make it easier to spot that problem if it comes up again.
You can always put the clear test port in that line as well. GL and keep us posted with the new pump.
 
I know that everyone including PicoBrew recommends to put a spoon or keg lid rings between the large filter mesh and the plastic step filter lid. This is what I did (using the same fix implemented for the Braumeister malt tube top screen: Used McMaster-Carr high-temperature food grade silicone U-channel gasket over and around the edges of the filter mesh. The U-channel gasket seals the screen so no grains can escape. I did not do the small bottom screen because the weight of the grain keeps it in place. Feedback is appreciated.

FilterScreenSeal.jpg
 
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I know that everyone including PicoBrew recommends to put a spoon or keg lid rings between the large filter mesh and the plastic step filter lid. This is what I did (using the same fix implemented for the Braumeister malt tube top screen: Used McMaster-Carr high-temperature food grade silicone U-channel gasket over and around the edges of the filter mesh. The U-channel gasket seals the screen so no grains can escape. I did not do the small bottom screen because the weight of the grain keeps it in place. Feedback is appreciated.

View attachment 586046
I like it. Excellent idea and execution. Do to hav a link to the material? Hey love good ideas.

I thought about something similar, funny though I would have attached it to the lid; not sure why. Fwiw since I started throwing 1-2 hand fulls of rice hulls into the mash I have never had the problem.
 
McMaster-Carr P/N 4869A76 - High-Temperature U-Channel Push-on Trim Orange Silicone Rubber, 3/32" Wide X 21/64" HT Inside. https://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/124/3930/=1eeefdy

Great job!! Wanted to do this myself, glad you posted the link. Will be ordering some and putting it on all the screens. I was tempted to try and find a small screen to go over the duck valve, but this will work just as well.
 
Yeah, I was surprised to see them still saying August in late July when they clearly had so far to go with testing and prototyping. Would have been better to have committed to before Christmas.
 
This is from the last email I received from them on the 24th...

"Hopefully we'll have some exciting news to share with you next Friday before the end of the month."
 
No Z update email yesterday.....

They sent a PicoStill one, but no "Z".

Guessing they didn't send out the update due to a delay preventing hitting the deadline to deliver 1st customer devices in August.

Based on the last update I'd be shocked if they managed to get a working Z1 out the door by the end of September. I'd much rather they take their time and get a good product out, but I'd also prefer they be honest about their lead times. If it's going to take another few months, say it's going to take another few months - there's no sense pretending otherwise if they aren't expecting to realistically get the majority of preorders out the door any time soon.
 
They are still designing and testing.....my guess is those first Z's to go out the door will be returning rather quickly. Testing takes time. If you don't have enough time under your belt testing each component, to find its MTBF, you failed as an engineer.

From the last email....."Every Z has 173 unique components. Some of those are used in multiple places so we have over 500 total component instances in any unit. These come from many different factories in several countries. Almost 40 of those are completely custom components such as our sheet metal, machined components for the HEX loop, and injection molded plastics (which required 17 individual custom molding tools.)"


They are using a new HEX loop, new components everywhere, but have no idea how those are going to work in the field. They need to perform a stress test on at least one of those machines, in its final state, to get one with several hundred brews on it before they call it "good to go".

They should post out that they will be delivering new Z's after the first of the year...that would be believable at least.
 

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