Picobrew Z

[kcpup]

Z1 on the way to me now. A few questions - but most important first:

1. How tall is the corny when used as fermentation vessel - total height with airlock? A ball lock keg is 25 inches tall. What airlock is supplied? [There is a nice fermentation chamber at a good price in my town. Interior height is only 26 inches, which I think will be too short. My current ferm chamber is too short for a corny - fits my Better Bottles great.]
2. I usually use Brewer's Friend for my recipe creation, etc. Will I need to stop using that software when I brew on the Z? I hear they have a recipe crafter? Do some of y'all use Brewers Friend - how do you "translate" to the Z?

Thanks for any guidance provided.

 

[swimIan]

You could make a blowoff tube with a ball lock connector on the out post and a tube running into a jar or bucket.

 

[kcpup]

You could make a blowoff tube with a ball lock connector on the out post and a tube running into a jar or bucket.

Yep, I did that in my current setup on big topcroppers when using my Better Bottle fermenters.

I was just hoping to keep the fully sealed fermentation...however you're reminding me it might be more practical to use some of my conventional knowledge for the Z. Thanks, swimIan!

 

[doublea]

Z1 on the way to me now. A few questions - but most important first:How tall is the corny when used as fermentation vessel - total height with airlock? A ball lock keg is 25 inches tall. What airlock is supplied? [There is a nice fermentation chamber at a good price in my town. Interior height is only 26 inches, which I think will be too short. My current ferm chamber is too short for a corny - fits my Better Bottles great.]

I do exactly what swimIan suggested (because my fermentor height is similar -- use a blow off tube from my corny. The keg is a standard ball lock keg and the airlock is a standard 3 piece clear airlock e.g. like this https://www.amazon.com/GLIDESTORE-F...=brew+airlock&qid=1565648211&s=gateway&sr=8-6

I also invested in a SS brewtech mini which works great for ~3 gallon batches if you want a more conical like fermentor.

Z1 on the way to me now. A few questions - but most important first:I usually use Brewer's Friend for my recipe creation, etc. Will I need to stop using that software when I brew on the Z? I hear they have a recipe crafter? Do some of y'all use Brewers Friend - how do you "translate" to the Z?

I use beersmith to craft the recipe with the efficiency set to what I expect and then just move it over to the recipe crafter when i'm done tweaking. When you turn on the machine, it will download your available recipes and then use them for the machine instructions (how long to keep at what temperature). The recipe crafter takes just a few minutes to setup per beer. It also tells you how much water to add (and the weight) which is pretty handy.

 

[kcpup]

I do exactly what swimIan suggested (because my fermentor height is similar -- use a blow off tube from my corny. The keg is a standard ball lock keg and the airlock is a standard 3 piece clear airlock e.g. like this https://www.amazon.com/GLIDESTORE-F...=brew+airlock&qid=1565648211&s=gateway&sr=8-6

I also invested in a SS brewtech mini which works great for ~3 gallon batches if you want a more conical like fermentor.



I use beersmith to craft the recipe with the efficiency set to what I expect and then just move it over to the recipe crafter when i'm done tweaking. When you turn on the machine, it will download your available recipes and then use them for the machine instructions (how long to keep at what temperature). The recipe crafter takes just a few minutes to setup per beer. It also tells you how much water to add (and the weight) which is pretty handy.

Thanks doublea! I'm relieved that I can still use Brewers Friend. I've been doing BIAB no sparge for a long time and I typically had my efficiency at about 65% - would that be a decent starting point for the Z? Thanks again

 

[doublea]

Thanks doublea! I'm relieved that I can still use Brewers Friend. I've been doing BIAB no sparge for a long time and I typically had my efficiency at about 65% - would that be a decent starting point for the Z? Thanks again

Yeah it seems like 60-65% is about right for Z. Make sure to set it to "high efficiency mash" (you'll see a dropdown in the recipe crafter).

 

[kcpup]

Yeah it seems like 60-65% is about right for Z. Make sure to set it to "high efficiency mash" (you'll see a dropdown in the recipe crafter).

Thank you! Cheers

 

[Virginia_Ranger]

So I am still working on dialing things in --- using the BIAB calculator to the amount of water needed and for a 3 gallon batch with 6.5 lbs of grain I am coming out to needing 4.79 gallons of water when the pico will only do 4.25 gallons. Is there a something else I am not accounting for? This is assuming 60 minute boil as well.

 

[doublea]

Pico has little evaporation which is typically something like 0.5gal/hr. I suspect this is accounting for the differences.

 

[alestateyall]

So I am still working on dialing things in --- using the BIAB calculator to the amount of water needed and for a 3 gallon batch with 6.5 lbs of grain I am coming out to needing 4.79 gallons of water when the pico will only do 4.25 gallons. Is there a something else I am not accounting for? This is assuming 60 minute boil as well.

My BeerSmith profile suggests 3.71 gallons water for your parameters. The Picobrew crafter recommends 3.84 gallons.

I am guessing you entered the boil off rate or some other parameter incorrectly.

In equipment profile:
Batch size: 3 gallons
Fermenter loss: 0.25 gallons
Boil off: 0.05 gallons
Lauter deadspace: 0.06 gallons
Trub chiller loss: 0
Top up water: 0

In mash profile:
Force full boil (BIAB) mash: yes
Batch sparge: no

Advanced Options:

BIAB Grain Absorb: 0.5860

 

[cheesemonster]

Is anyone else here concerned that we still haven't received our perks package OR Zymatic rebate? It has been 1.5 years since we shelled out our money and the deal is STILL not finalized. I always get the answer that they are just finalizing these details bla bla but it is now mid August 2019! We really need to start demanding answers and get the deal we paid for.

 

[macgyuver]

Is anyone else here concerned that we still haven't received our perks package OR Zymatic rebate? It has been 1.5 years since we shelled out our money and the deal is STILL not finalized. I always get the answer that they are just finalizing these details bla bla but it is now mid August 2019! We really need to start demanding answers and get the deal we paid for.

Perks are shipping now, several people have gotten theirs. I have tracking number for mine, should be here next week.

Rebate is still up in the air though.

 

[stpauliboy]

I got my tracking number today, but I still want to hear about the zymatic trade in - that was a part of my decision to get a Z2.

 

[Virginia_Ranger]

My BeerSmith profile suggests 3.71 gallons water for your parameters. The Picobrew crafter recommends 3.84 gallons.

I am guessing you entered the boil off rate or some other parameter incorrectly.

In equipment profile:
Batch size: 3 gallons
Fermenter loss: 0.25 gallons
Boil off: 0.05 gallons
Lauter deadspace: 0.06 gallons
Trub chiller loss: 0
Top up water: 0

In mash profile:
Force full boil (BIAB) mash: yes
Batch sparge: no

Advanced Options:

BIAB Grain Absorb: 0.5860

Thanks thats helpful, yea I assumed a much higher boil off!

Is anyone else here concerned that we still haven't received our perks package OR Zymatic rebate? It has been 1.5 years since we shelled out our money and the deal is STILL not finalized. I always get the answer that they are just finalizing these details bla bla but it is now mid August 2019! We really need to start demanding answers and get the deal we paid for.

I lucked out, I canceled my original Z2 pre-order then got that sorry we F***ed up email heres a close to pre-order price and decided to go just with a Z1. When I did that I asked if they would still do the rebate on my PicoPro and they gave me $100 off and said keep the machine so I was pleasantly surprised there.

 

[alestateyall]

Thanks thats helpful, yea I assumed a much higher boil off!



I lucked out, I canceled my original Z2 pre-order then got that sorry we F***ed up email heres a close to pre-order price and decided to go just with a Z1. When I did that I asked if they would still do the rebate on my PicoPro and they gave me $100 off and said keep the machine so I was pleasantly surprised there.

I cancelled my preorder way back when and then reordered recently for $1999. A day later they were offering preorder cancellors the Z1 for $1599. Picobrew was nice enough to extend that deal to me.

 

[alestateyall]

My Z1 was reporting overheating errors while heating to mash temperature yesterday. It had already added water to the mash for a rest. The step filter filled nearly to the top. The hop compartments were flooded also.

I wasn’t sure what was happening. After a couple feeble attempts at fixing I gave up and moved to my Grainfather.

24 hours later I figured out the source of the problem. The Z1 has a drain tube grommet that connects to small tube. The tube dips into the wort and sucks it out of a tub (the step filter).

Here is a drain tube grommet.

Here is my bad drain tube grommet close up.

I think maybe a mouse took a bite. I can’t imagine what else might have taken that chunk out of it. With the bad drain tube grommet the drain pump was just sucking air.

Luckily the Z1 ships with a spare grommet. I replaced it and the system seems to function fine.

 

[JCJ]

I have questioned why the grommet is even needed. If they would develop a step filter without the need for the grommet it would eliminate some problems. Another way to eliminate potential problems that I learned from the Pico forums is removing everything from the keg out and in post along with the grey and black connectors for optimum flow. This with a deep cleaning cycle after every brew has greatly improved my experience with the Z.

 

[doublea]

I learned from the Pico forums is removing everything from the keg out and in post along with the grey and black connectors for optimum flow.

What do you mean about removing thing from the keg posts?

 

[alestateyall]

What do you mean about removing thing from the keg posts?

I believe he means remove the poppet from the keg post and the spring and post inside the quick disconnect. You would still be able to connect with good deal but there would be less blockage of flow.

 

[JCJ]

I believe he means remove the poppet from the keg post and the spring and post inside the quick disconnect. You would still be able to connect with good deal but there would be less blockage of flow.

This is exactly what I mean......take the poppets and springs out of both the in and out post....then using a screwdriver take the grey ball lock and black ball lock apart.....remove everything. Make sure you put the caps back on the grey and black ball lock. This allows for much better flow and will more than likely eliminate any overheating messages that occur. Pico should also design another step filter that eliminates the use of the black grommet that goes in the hole.

 

[Rynolee]

I have had my Picobrew Z1 for about 2 months now and just finished a second brewing session with poor OG and clarity. (Kolsh and Coconut Porter). I primarily brew on a half barrel rig and have tons of experience getting spot-on results but wanted a small system to test batches before ramping them up to scale; however, the Z1 appears to have an efficiency monster hiding inside it that worries me. I plan out my recipes in Beer Smith and transfer them over to the Pico Crafter Beta and in both sessions, I missed my OG by 10 and 19 points, respectively. Holy Sh*t!

I'm not giving up but want to understand where the miss is. Grain crush, amount and water is perfect. The only thing I can think of is a less than desired mash due to default settings and plan on tweaking the advanced settings to get better results. Both batches used the standard single-infusion mash, which is where I think the issue is.

These are my 2 advanced recipes in editor (so far):

Heat to Single Step Infusion Mash - Pass Through - 154 degrees - 0 Min
Single Step Infusion Mash - Mash - 154 degrees - 90 minutes - Drain (8)
Heat to Mash Out - Pass Through - 168 degrees - 0 minutes
Mash Out - Mash - 168 Degrees - 20 minuets - Drain (8)
BOIL

-AND-

Heat to Dough In - Pass Through - 104 degrees - 0 Min
Dough In - Mash - 104 Degrees - 20 minutes - Drain (8)
Heat to Mash Alpha - Pass Through - 145 degrees - 0 Min
Mash Alpha - 145 Degrees - 30 minutes - Drain (8)
Heat to Mash Beta - Pass Through - 154 degrees - 0 Min
Mash Beta - 154 Degrees - 60 minutes - Drain (8)
Heat to Mash Out - Pass Through - 168 degrees - 0 Min
Mash Out - 168 Degrees - 20 minutes - Drain (8)
BOIL

Will these steps work in the way I intend them to work? Do you think my OG will be more accurate if basing it on 65% efficiency using these settings instead of the basic single-step?

 

[alestateyall]

I have had my Picobrew Z1 for about 2 months now and just finished a second brewing session with poor OG and clarity. (Kolsh and Coconut Porter). I primarily brew on a half barrel rig and have tons of experience getting spot-on results but wanted a small system to test batches before ramping them up to scale; however, the Z1 appears to have an efficiency monster hiding inside it that worries me. I plan out my recipes in Beer Smith and transfer them over to the Pico Crafter Beta and in both sessions, I missed my OG by 10 and 19 points, respectively. Holy Sh*t!

I'm not giving up but want to understand where the miss is. Grain crush, amount and water is perfect. The only thing I can think of is a less than desired mash due to default settings and plan on tweaking the advanced settings to get better results. Both batches used the standard single-infusion mash, which is where I think the issue is.

These are my 2 advanced recipes in editor (so far):

Heat to Single Step Infusion Mash - Pass Through - 154 degrees - 0 Min
Single Step Infusion Mash - Mash - 154 degrees - 90 minutes - Drain (8)
Heat to Mash Out - Pass Through - 168 degrees - 0 minutes
Mash Out - Mash - 168 Degrees - 20 minuets - Drain (8)
BOIL

-AND-

Heat to Dough In - Pass Through - 104 degrees - 0 Min
Dough In - Mash - 104 Degrees - 20 minutes - Drain (8)
Heat to Mash Alpha - Pass Through - 145 degrees - 0 Min
Mash Alpha - 145 Degrees - 30 minutes - Drain (8)
Heat to Mash Beta - Pass Through - 154 degrees - 0 Min
Mash Beta - 154 Degrees - 60 minutes - Drain (8)
Heat to Mash Out - Pass Through - 168 degrees - 0 Min
Mash Out - 168 Degrees - 20 minutes - Drain (8)
BOIL

Will these steps work in the way I intend them to work? Do you think my OG will be more accurate if basing it on 65% efficiency using these settings instead of the basic single-step?

I get 63% efficiency using HEMS profile according to BeerSmith. I used Single Infusion with mashout once and for 61%. I have not used any other profiles. But, others have posted efficiencies in the low 50’s with straight single infusion.

 

[Brewfreedom]

Yup. Not regretting canceling it. Brew day on a full blown 20 gallon eherms is still insanely more reliable than my zymatic ever was. Wait until the new unproven heat exchangers start failing on these things. Have they bought any of the old zymatics back yet like they promised?

 

[trip150]

What was your ending volume compared to your target?
I missed my target gravity on my last brew because i ended up with nearly 0.5 gallons of extra wort.
All of my input measurements were spot on, but the spent grain was really dry at the end of the brew cycle.
The 0.5 gallons of extra wort calculates to the exact amount i missed my OG.

I have had my Picobrew Z1 for about 2 months now and just finished a second brewing session with poor OG and clarity. (Kolsh and Coconut Porter). I primarily brew on a half barrel rig and have tons of experience getting spot-on results but wanted a small system to test batches before ramping them up to scale; however, the Z1 appears to have an efficiency monster hiding inside it that worries me. I plan out my recipes in Beer Smith and transfer them over to the Pico Crafter Beta and in both sessions, I missed my OG by 10 and 19 points, respectively. Holy Sh*t!

I'm not giving up but want to understand where the miss is. Grain crush, amount and water is perfect. The only thing I can think of is a less than desired mash due to default settings and plan on tweaking the advanced settings to get better results. Both batches used the standard single-infusion mash, which is where I think the issue is.

These are my 2 advanced recipes in editor (so far):

Heat to Single Step Infusion Mash - Pass Through - 154 degrees - 0 Min
Single Step Infusion Mash - Mash - 154 degrees - 90 minutes - Drain (8)
Heat to Mash Out - Pass Through - 168 degrees - 0 minutes
Mash Out - Mash - 168 Degrees - 20 minuets - Drain (8)
BOIL

-AND-

Heat to Dough In - Pass Through - 104 degrees - 0 Min
Dough In - Mash - 104 Degrees - 20 minutes - Drain (8)
Heat to Mash Alpha - Pass Through - 145 degrees - 0 Min
Mash Alpha - 145 Degrees - 30 minutes - Drain (8)
Heat to Mash Beta - Pass Through - 154 degrees - 0 Min
Mash Beta - 154 Degrees - 60 minutes - Drain (8)
Heat to Mash Out - Pass Through - 168 degrees - 0 Min
Mash Out - 168 Degrees - 20 minutes - Drain (8)
BOIL

Will these steps work in the way I intend them to work? Do you think my OG will be more accurate if basing it on 65% efficiency using these settings instead of the basic single-step?

 

[Mike Howard]

Basically you can't stir your grains and you are leaving it up to resistance for the wort to find the best path through the grain bed. You aren't going to get much better than ~60%-70% so you'll have to live with it. What I find is that using no more than about 5 lbs of grain, adding a lot of rice hulls and doing double batches is a much better method...talking Zymatic here, but they didn't do any improvements to the step filter or how wort moves through the grain bed.

 

[cheesemonster]

Yup. Not regretting canceling it. Brew day on a full blown 20 gallon eherms is still insanely more reliable than my zymatic ever was. Wait until the new unproven heat exchangers start failing on these things. Have they bought any of the old zymatics back yet like they promised?

No they haven't honored their buyback yet. It is now > 1.5 years since I paid them originally

 

[Mutant]

So when do we ship back the Zymatic for $600? It is approaching two years since the Zs were ordered

 

[cheesemonster]

So when do we ship back the Zymatic for $600? It is approaching two years since the Zs were ordered

I've asked them several times and I always get the same response that they are "finalizing the details" I mean they always answer promptly and politely but I think they didn't consider the logistics or cost of this when they offered it. It is going to be hard for a small company to suddenly start paying out $600 to hundreds (maybe 1000s) of people. For me, I would not have bought the unit without that deal, and also I have a Zymatic sitting around taking up space.

 

[ListerH]

What was your ending volume compared to your target?
I missed my target gravity on my last brew because i ended up with nearly 0.5 gallons of extra wort.
All of my input measurements were spot on, but the spent grain was really dry at the end of the brew cycle.
The 0.5 gallons of extra wort calculates to the exact amount i missed my OG.

Do you brew with the keg seal on the corny? My first couple of batches, I did and was not getting enough evaporation and ending up with about half a gallon too much wort. Since then, I have removed it and been just about right.

In terms of efficiencies, I'm hitting around 60% when I do a single infusion mash and around 70% when I step mash. I am pretty consistently doing 90 minute mashes now whereas before on my old system, i'd get those efficiency numbers from a shorter mash.

The thing the Z gives me is real consistency which I like and the trade off is the lower efficiencies which I just have to take into account when building my recipes.

 

[doublea]

Just got the rebate email. Pleasantly surprised you don't need to ship the entire thing back (you just send the control board). Still need to read more but...

$600 check, $700 gift card or option to buy another Z1 for $499.