Picobrew Z

[wh4tig0t]

Has anyone received a Pico pack adapter yet?

 

[Trevor Mack]

This was posted to the FB group recently by Picobrew

Great News! Our Z PicoPak adapter started shipping late last week with all new orders, is currently being packaged with Perks and for anyone in between they will be receiving a digital coupon.

 

[alestateyall]

Batch 3 in the Z1 now: Extra Pale Ale w/ Mosaic. Today I will use my Jaded Corny Pillar for the first time.

Edit:

1. Corny Pillar worked well.

2. Huge gravity miss. Picobrew recipe crafter predicted 1055. Actual 1048.

 

[Virginia_Ranger]

With the gravity misses is it due to the machine or recipe crafter? I am wondering if it would be better to decide on amounts in brewers friend and ignore the pico crafter outside of setting up steps? I am asking from a place ignorance. Still haven't unpack my Z1 yet.

 

[alestateyall]

With the gravity misses is it due to the machine or recipe crafter? I am wondering if it would be better to decide on amounts in brewers friend and ignore the pico crafter outside of setting up steps? I am asking from a place ignorance. Still haven't unpack my Z1 yet.

Yes. Using another recipe tool is advisable IMHO.

I think the Beta Recipe Crafter is the issue. There is no telling what expected yield different malts and or and what mash efficiency they assume. My resulting batch size is also usually 2.8 gallons when telling the Beta Crafter 2.5. That extra 0.3 gallons also makes a difference on the OG.

With BeerSmith I am able to predict the gravity pretty well by correcting the above issues. My Z1 has gotten 63 & 65% efficiency using the HEMS mash two times and 62% using the single infusion with mash out.

The variability is likely due to not knowing the exact expected yield for the various malts I used.

 

[bingggo]

My neighbour just got his Z2 and we are planning the first brew. Here are some silly questions:
- to brew 20L of the same recipe, you set up 10L recipe in one, and it becomes head unit to control the other one?
- do you end up with two kegs with 10L in each? Can the picobrew then pump one into the other?
- any tips on “no chilling” in keg?
- any tips on fermenting in keg? I have done that myself but would only put 15L beer into a 20L keg due to headspace.
- I can’t work out how to access the picobrew recipe tool. I have created an account but only see a very limited freestyle PicoPak recipe builder tool.
- any tips on using beersmith - what do you use for grain absorption, “boil-off”, other water,volume losses?

Thanks so much!
B

 

[alestateyall]

My neighbour just got his Z2 and we are planning the first brew. Here are some silly questions:
- to brew 20L of the same recipe, you set up 10L recipe in one, and it becomes head unit to control the other one?
- do you end up with two kegs with 10L in each? Can the picobrew then pump one into the other?
- any tips on “no chilling” in keg?
- any tips on fermenting in keg? I have done that myself but would only put 15L beer into a 20L keg due to headspace.
- I can’t work out how to access the picobrew recipe tool. I have created an account but only see a very limited freestyle PicoPak recipe builder tool.
- any tips on using beersmith - what do you use for grain absorption, “boil-off”, other water,volume losses?

Thanks so much!
B

You have to register your Z before the recipe crafter becomes available.

I attached screenshots of my Z1 profiles. As far as I can tell there is no boil off. I know that sounds crazy but the gravity doesn’t seem to change from pre to post boil.

For grain absorption I use the BeerSmith default for BIAB.

It’s not perfect. But, it’s a start.

View attachment 638955View attachment 638956View attachment 638957View attachment 638958

 

[bingggo]

Thanks, for some reason I don’t have permission to view those, even though signed in.

 

[alestateyall]

Thanks, for some reason I don’t have permission to view those, even though signed in.

Strangely neither to I?!

Trying again.

 

[brewbama]

Strangely neither to I?!

Trying again.

I’ve had this issue ^^ when attaching a photo within Tapatalk on the iPad and iPhone. I’ve reported it but it doesn’t seem to get much traction. I’ve found that if I want to attach a photo I have to use the ‘web view’ within the ‘...’ menu. It works well when I do that.

Cheers!

 

[Virginia_Ranger]

Batch 3 in the Z1 now: Extra Pale Ale w/ Mosaic. Today I will use my Jaded Corny Pillar for the first time.

Edit:

1. Corny Pillar worked well.

2. Huge gravity miss. Picobrew recipe crafter predicted 1055. Actual 1048.

Strangely neither to I?!

Trying again.

View attachment 638979View attachment 638980View attachment 638981View attachment 638982

Are the screenshots your using from Pico or from Beersmith (Brewer's Friend user over here)? So your starting volume of water is 5 gal then assuming 3.5 gal roughly for the boil to yield 2.8ish gal in the end. Am I reading that correctly?

 

[alestateyall]

Are the screenshots your using from Pico or from Beersmith (Brewer's Friend user over here)? So your starting volume of water is 5 gal then assuming 3.5 gal roughly for the boil to yield 2.8ish gal in the end. Am I reading that correctly?

The screen shots are from BeerSmith. The 5 gal is the mash tun volume. That is a default and meaningless.

I set the following which may or may not help in Brewers Friend

Batch size: 2.75G
Fermenter loss (trub): 0.25G
Bottled volume: 2.5G

Boil off: 0
Lauter Deadspace (loss in mash tun): 0.11G
Grain absorption: 0.586 fl oz/oz

This equates to starting with about 3.35G of water for a middle of the roas size (1050 OG) batch.

The key for predicting OG is just to have the right batch size. IBU’s are harder. You have to have the right preboil and post boil gravity. Right now I assume no boil off. I know that is crazy. BeerSmith has a setting for hop utilization and I have set that at 75%.

Bottom line BeerSmith gives me a pretty good gravity and IBU estimate. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Virginia_Ranger]

Thanks that’s helpful, brewers friend does hop utilizations % manually if you want as well but it also adjusts for time boiled. Are you doing 75% for all additions (even 10, 5, and 0 min)? Also I am assuming no sparge?

 

[alestateyall]

Thanks that’s helpful, brewers friend does hop utilizations % manually if you want as well but it also adjusts for time boiled. Are you doing 75% for all additions (even 10, 5, and 0 min)? Also I am assuming no sparge?

The 75% hop utilization is across the board. I think the way it works is to calculate the IBU based on time in the boil and then multiply by 0.75. So, time is still accounted for.

Yes my configuration is no sparge.

 

[HossTheGreat]

I'm going to start off with my standard NEIPA just to see how it does. If it works, want to follow up with a blonde that I can use to top off our 12g sour barrel. Do y'all order the washer packs from Pico or do you have any easy substitute?

I too have noticed the finished wort coming out much darker than expected. Have followed all instructions, doing the initial pre-rinse before the first brew followed by the hot water rinse post brew after each batch. Each of the beers I have done have only consisted of 2 Row/Pilsener, wheat, and oats with the calculated SRM of each beer not being over 3. The first beer came out as expected, but noticed on the 2nd beer the final wort was darker than anticipated. Then when I did my 3rd beer, the wort came out what I consider extremely dark,considering the calculated SRM was only supposed to be 3. Below is a link to the picture of the transferred wort. I double checked the malt bill and everything was accurate. I purchase my malt in 50lb sacks and have used the same sacks previously on my full 10gal system without issue. I have begun doing deep cleans between each batch, but the still getting the dark color.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8nS1bxsvqY4VDg1YVV6LWN1RDZQcERFTjFNUlVaekx2dG1r/view?usp=sharing

 

[alestateyall]

I too have noticed the finished wort coming out much darker than expected. Have followed all instructions, doing the initial pre-rinse before the first brew followed by the hot water rinse post brew after each batch. Each of the beers I have done have only consisted of 2 Row/Pilsener, wheat, and oats with the calculated SRM of each beer not being over 3. The first beer came out as expected, but noticed on the 2nd beer the final wort was darker than anticipated. Then when I did my 3rd beer, the wort came out what I consider extremely dark,considering the calculated SRM was only supposed to be 3. Below is a link to the picture of the transferred wort. I double checked the malt bill and everything was accurate. I purchase my malt in 50lb sacks and have used the same sacks previously on my full 10gal system without issue. I have begun doing deep cleans between each batch, but the still getting the dark color.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8nS1bxsvqY4VDg1YVV6LWN1RDZQcERFTjFNUlVaekx2dG1r/view?usp=sharing

Honestly, that doesn’t look very dark for a carboy full beer.

I haven’t done a light colored beer yet. Both my first batches have been in the 6 SRM range (BeerSmith). The Picobrew recipe crafter estimated 5 SRM for both. When I compare the finished beer, after fermentation and a few weeks to clear in the keg, to a color card I think they are about right.

 

[bingggo]

Batch size: 2.75G

I notice your batch size is higher than picobrew’s advertising of 2.5g batches? Can you set the recipe batch size higher than 2.5?

You don’t use a single infusion mash?

I was helping my neighbour with his first recipe. He used a preset recipe from the site. It said batch size 2.5g and 3.3g of water for 5.5lb grain. So guess it calculated .8g lost to grain absorption, and what’s left in machine after draining. To get accuracy on my neighbours profile will require a few test runs ton dial in grain absorption according to his crush perhaps.

 

[alestateyall]

I notice your batch size is higher than picobrew’s advertising of 2.5g batches? Can you set the recipe batch size higher than 2.5?

You don’t use a single infusion mash?

I was helping my neighbour with his first recipe. He used a preset recipe from the site. It said batch size 2.5g and 3.3g of water for 5.5lb grain. So guess it calculated .8g lost to grain absorption, and what’s left in machine after draining. To get accuracy on my neighbours profile will require a few test runs ton dial in grain absorption according to his crush perhaps.

I set the BeerSmith batch size to 2.75 gallons. I have done 3 batches and put 2.5 gallons in the beta crafter. 2.75-2.8 gallons is what I have ended up with each time. I set my BeerSmith profile to match what is actually happening.

You can brew larger batches. The practical limit is set by how much water you add to the keg before brewing and how much grain the step filter can hold. I think I could safely brew a 3.5 gallon batch.

 

[doublea]

The recipe crafter will tell you the limits, which I think are 4.25gal of water or ~9lbs of grain. Within these limits you can brew whatever you want. I typically brew a ~3-3.25 gallon batch.

 

[alestateyall]

The recipe crafter will tell you the limits, which I think are 4.25gal of water or ~9lbs of grain. Within these limits you can brew whatever you want. I typically brew a ~3-3.25 gallon batch.

I just tried it. The Beer Crafter says “Batch size must be less than 3.5 gallons.”

The grain bill limit appears to be 9.01 lbs.

 

[kcpup]

Z1 on the way to me now. A few questions - but most important first:

1. How tall is the corny when used as fermentation vessel - total height with airlock? A ball lock keg is 25 inches tall. What airlock is supplied? [There is a nice fermentation chamber at a good price in my town. Interior height is only 26 inches, which I think will be too short. My current ferm chamber is too short for a corny - fits my Better Bottles great.]
2. I usually use Brewer's Friend for my recipe creation, etc. Will I need to stop using that software when I brew on the Z? I hear they have a recipe crafter? Do some of y'all use Brewers Friend - how do you "translate" to the Z?

Thanks for any guidance provided.

 

[swimIan]

You could make a blowoff tube with a ball lock connector on the out post and a tube running into a jar or bucket.

 

[kcpup]

You could make a blowoff tube with a ball lock connector on the out post and a tube running into a jar or bucket.

Yep, I did that in my current setup on big topcroppers when using my Better Bottle fermenters.

I was just hoping to keep the fully sealed fermentation...however you're reminding me it might be more practical to use some of my conventional knowledge for the Z. Thanks, swimIan!

 

[doublea]

Z1 on the way to me now. A few questions - but most important first:How tall is the corny when used as fermentation vessel - total height with airlock? A ball lock keg is 25 inches tall. What airlock is supplied? [There is a nice fermentation chamber at a good price in my town. Interior height is only 26 inches, which I think will be too short. My current ferm chamber is too short for a corny - fits my Better Bottles great.]

I do exactly what swimIan suggested (because my fermentor height is similar -- use a blow off tube from my corny. The keg is a standard ball lock keg and the airlock is a standard 3 piece clear airlock e.g. like this https://www.amazon.com/GLIDESTORE-F...=brew+airlock&qid=1565648211&s=gateway&sr=8-6

I also invested in a SS brewtech mini which works great for ~3 gallon batches if you want a more conical like fermentor.

Z1 on the way to me now. A few questions - but most important first:I usually use Brewer's Friend for my recipe creation, etc. Will I need to stop using that software when I brew on the Z? I hear they have a recipe crafter? Do some of y'all use Brewers Friend - how do you "translate" to the Z?

I use beersmith to craft the recipe with the efficiency set to what I expect and then just move it over to the recipe crafter when i'm done tweaking. When you turn on the machine, it will download your available recipes and then use them for the machine instructions (how long to keep at what temperature). The recipe crafter takes just a few minutes to setup per beer. It also tells you how much water to add (and the weight) which is pretty handy.

 

[kcpup]

I do exactly what swimIan suggested (because my fermentor height is similar -- use a blow off tube from my corny. The keg is a standard ball lock keg and the airlock is a standard 3 piece clear airlock e.g. like this https://www.amazon.com/GLIDESTORE-F...=brew+airlock&qid=1565648211&s=gateway&sr=8-6

I also invested in a SS brewtech mini which works great for ~3 gallon batches if you want a more conical like fermentor.



I use beersmith to craft the recipe with the efficiency set to what I expect and then just move it over to the recipe crafter when i'm done tweaking. When you turn on the machine, it will download your available recipes and then use them for the machine instructions (how long to keep at what temperature). The recipe crafter takes just a few minutes to setup per beer. It also tells you how much water to add (and the weight) which is pretty handy.

Thanks doublea! I'm relieved that I can still use Brewers Friend. I've been doing BIAB no sparge for a long time and I typically had my efficiency at about 65% - would that be a decent starting point for the Z? Thanks again

 

[doublea]

Thanks doublea! I'm relieved that I can still use Brewers Friend. I've been doing BIAB no sparge for a long time and I typically had my efficiency at about 65% - would that be a decent starting point for the Z? Thanks again

Yeah it seems like 60-65% is about right for Z. Make sure to set it to "high efficiency mash" (you'll see a dropdown in the recipe crafter).

 

[kcpup]

Yeah it seems like 60-65% is about right for Z. Make sure to set it to "high efficiency mash" (you'll see a dropdown in the recipe crafter).

Thank you! Cheers

 

[Virginia_Ranger]

So I am still working on dialing things in --- using the BIAB calculator to the amount of water needed and for a 3 gallon batch with 6.5 lbs of grain I am coming out to needing 4.79 gallons of water when the pico will only do 4.25 gallons. Is there a something else I am not accounting for? This is assuming 60 minute boil as well.

 

[doublea]

Pico has little evaporation which is typically something like 0.5gal/hr. I suspect this is accounting for the differences.

 

[alestateyall]

So I am still working on dialing things in --- using the BIAB calculator to the amount of water needed and for a 3 gallon batch with 6.5 lbs of grain I am coming out to needing 4.79 gallons of water when the pico will only do 4.25 gallons. Is there a something else I am not accounting for? This is assuming 60 minute boil as well.

My BeerSmith profile suggests 3.71 gallons water for your parameters. The Picobrew crafter recommends 3.84 gallons.

I am guessing you entered the boil off rate or some other parameter incorrectly.

In equipment profile:
Batch size: 3 gallons
Fermenter loss: 0.25 gallons
Boil off: 0.05 gallons
Lauter deadspace: 0.06 gallons
Trub chiller loss: 0
Top up water: 0

In mash profile:
Force full boil (BIAB) mash: yes
Batch sparge: no

Advanced Options:

BIAB Grain Absorb: 0.5860

 

[cheesemonster]

Is anyone else here concerned that we still haven't received our perks package OR Zymatic rebate? It has been 1.5 years since we shelled out our money and the deal is STILL not finalized. I always get the answer that they are just finalizing these details bla bla but it is now mid August 2019! We really need to start demanding answers and get the deal we paid for.

 

[macgyuver]

Is anyone else here concerned that we still haven't received our perks package OR Zymatic rebate? It has been 1.5 years since we shelled out our money and the deal is STILL not finalized. I always get the answer that they are just finalizing these details bla bla but it is now mid August 2019! We really need to start demanding answers and get the deal we paid for.

Perks are shipping now, several people have gotten theirs. I have tracking number for mine, should be here next week.

Rebate is still up in the air though.

 

[stpauliboy]

I got my tracking number today, but I still want to hear about the zymatic trade in - that was a part of my decision to get a Z2.

 

[Virginia_Ranger]

My BeerSmith profile suggests 3.71 gallons water for your parameters. The Picobrew crafter recommends 3.84 gallons.

I am guessing you entered the boil off rate or some other parameter incorrectly.

In equipment profile:
Batch size: 3 gallons
Fermenter loss: 0.25 gallons
Boil off: 0.05 gallons
Lauter deadspace: 0.06 gallons
Trub chiller loss: 0
Top up water: 0

In mash profile:
Force full boil (BIAB) mash: yes
Batch sparge: no

Advanced Options:

BIAB Grain Absorb: 0.5860

Thanks thats helpful, yea I assumed a much higher boil off!

Is anyone else here concerned that we still haven't received our perks package OR Zymatic rebate? It has been 1.5 years since we shelled out our money and the deal is STILL not finalized. I always get the answer that they are just finalizing these details bla bla but it is now mid August 2019! We really need to start demanding answers and get the deal we paid for.

I lucked out, I canceled my original Z2 pre-order then got that sorry we F***ed up email heres a close to pre-order price and decided to go just with a Z1. When I did that I asked if they would still do the rebate on my PicoPro and they gave me $100 off and said keep the machine so I was pleasantly surprised there.

 

[alestateyall]

Thanks thats helpful, yea I assumed a much higher boil off!



I lucked out, I canceled my original Z2 pre-order then got that sorry we F***ed up email heres a close to pre-order price and decided to go just with a Z1. When I did that I asked if they would still do the rebate on my PicoPro and they gave me $100 off and said keep the machine so I was pleasantly surprised there.

I cancelled my preorder way back when and then reordered recently for $1999. A day later they were offering preorder cancellors the Z1 for $1599. Picobrew was nice enough to extend that deal to me.

 

[alestateyall]

My Z1 was reporting overheating errors while heating to mash temperature yesterday. It had already added water to the mash for a rest. The step filter filled nearly to the top. The hop compartments were flooded also.

I wasn’t sure what was happening. After a couple feeble attempts at fixing I gave up and moved to my Grainfather.

24 hours later I figured out the source of the problem. The Z1 has a drain tube grommet that connects to small tube. The tube dips into the wort and sucks it out of a tub (the step filter).

Here is a drain tube grommet.

Here is my bad drain tube grommet close up.

I think maybe a mouse took a bite. I can’t imagine what else might have taken that chunk out of it. With the bad drain tube grommet the drain pump was just sucking air.

Luckily the Z1 ships with a spare grommet. I replaced it and the system seems to function fine.

 

[JCJ]

I have questioned why the grommet is even needed. If they would develop a step filter without the need for the grommet it would eliminate some problems. Another way to eliminate potential problems that I learned from the Pico forums is removing everything from the keg out and in post along with the grey and black connectors for optimum flow. This with a deep cleaning cycle after every brew has greatly improved my experience with the Z.

 

[doublea]

I learned from the Pico forums is removing everything from the keg out and in post along with the grey and black connectors for optimum flow.

What do you mean about removing thing from the keg posts?

 

[alestateyall]

What do you mean about removing thing from the keg posts?

I believe he means remove the poppet from the keg post and the spring and post inside the quick disconnect. You would still be able to connect with good deal but there would be less blockage of flow.

 

[JCJ]

I believe he means remove the poppet from the keg post and the spring and post inside the quick disconnect. You would still be able to connect with good deal but there would be less blockage of flow.

This is exactly what I mean......take the poppets and springs out of both the in and out post....then using a screwdriver take the grey ball lock and black ball lock apart.....remove everything. Make sure you put the caps back on the grey and black ball lock. This allows for much better flow and will more than likely eliminate any overheating messages that occur. Pico should also design another step filter that eliminates the use of the black grommet that goes in the hole.