PicoBrew Pico users

[VagueSkunk]

Now I got you. I didn't know it could be removed. Once removed, could you put it back to use it with those nasty serving kegs? I may want to use it one day at a party where I don't want to bring back the keg. ;-)

You'll never need it again. Just get some cO2 cartridges for situations where you need portability.

 

[brew-in]

I almost did, 3 or 4 times. In the end, I was worried about the quality and didn't want to wait until September for delivery. Perhaps they've really found a way to cut the price in half while keeping the quality up but I wasn't sure I wanted to test the theory for them. The pico200 code brought the price down to $600 which lessoned the bite. Probably the wait was the deciding factor though. I've been putting off brewing lately because it's a chore and once I decided on the pico, selfishness took over.

They did not cut the price in half. The Pico C will retail for $499 after the kickstarter......

So after kickstarter price will be $499 for Pico C plus about $80 for the three included pico packs + $89 for Ferm moniter (if they make last goa)l. or $668 worth of stuff for $279 (if you were a super early bird).....IMHO not too bad...actually pretty great...

 

[Pkrd]

Got you, that's what I thought. 5Gal allows flexibility like this, providing you get easily (and a good price) your CO2.

I believe I prefer 3Gal kegs for my use/consumption. I just need to figure out if I can put 3 of those in a standard 4.4cu ft kegerator, or only 2.

How about 4 2.5 gallon kegs in a 4.6cu ft?
I reckon I could get 6 of the 1.75gal kegs in mine.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=7946416&postcount=6479

 

[jrb03]

Here is the Brewvana they offered last kickstarter. It's the same 5.6 cu ft kegco kegerator my rebadged insignia is. That shelf allows you to get 4 kegs and kegplates in there. The standard shelf location will not allow the second row to fit with the kegplates. I have asked them to sell me the shelf but they aren't making them anymore.

Here is my kegerator, my solution was to cut down the included shelf to allow the third keg and plate. If your not using kegsmarts the standard shelf and location should allow you to get 4 1.75 gallon kegs in there, I don't know about any taller though would be close.

 

[jrb03]

Now I got you. I didn't know it could be removed. Once removed, could you put it back to use it with those nasty serving kegs? I may want to use it one day at a party where I don't want to bring back the keg. ;-)

You could if you don't destroy it taking it out. I don't know why you would want to once your using the ball lock keg which is even more portable with the handle. I had to put mine in a vice and yanked the barbed fitting out with channel locks. You could be more careful than I was if you wanted to preserve the barbed fitting but isn't something you would want to be swapping often. If you do the conversion make sure and use teflon tape or dope.

 

[Lbarouf]

You could if you don't destroy it taking it out. I don't know why you would want to once your using the ball lock keg which is even more portable with the handle. I had to put mine in a vice and yanked the barbed fitting out with channel locks. You could be more careful than I was if you wanted to preserve the barbed fitting but isn't something you would want to be swapping often. If you do the conversion make sure and use teflon tape or dope.

It looks like an allan key at the tip, I may just try to clearly remove it. Never know.

Cool, thanks for the idea/tip!

 

[Lbarouf]

View attachment 398948

Here is the Brewvana they offered last kickstarter. It's the same 5.6 cu ft kegco kegerator my rebadged insignia is. That shelf allows you to get 4 kegs and kegplates in there. The standard shelf location will not allow the second row to fit with the kegplates. I have asked them to sell me the shelf but they aren't making them anymore.

Here is my kegerator, my solution was to cut down the included shelf to allow the third keg and plate. If your not using kegsmarts the standard shelf and location should allow you to get 4 1.75 gallon kegs in there, I don't know about any taller though would be close.

Great, I knew I wanted one, now you firmly created a need. Damn it. Need to talk to the minister of finance again. Looks great. Doesn't seem too difficult to create that shelf. How much of a dip is it, 2" ?

 

[Oleary]

They did not cut the price in half. The Pico C will retail for $499 after the kickstarter......

So after kickstarter price will be $499 for Pico C plus about $80 for the three included pico packs + $89 for Ferm moniter (if they make last goa)l. or $668 worth of stuff for $279 (if you were a super early bird).....IMHO not too bad...actually pretty great...

You're absolutely right, it's a great deal. It just wasn't for me.

 

[Oleary]

View attachment 398948

Here is the Brewvana they offered last kickstarter. It's the same 5.6 cu ft kegco kegerator my rebadged insignia is. That shelf allows you to get 4 kegs and kegplates in there. The standard shelf location will not allow the second row to fit with the kegplates. I have asked them to sell me the shelf but they aren't making them anymore.

Here is my kegerator, my solution was to cut down the included shelf to allow the third keg and plate. If your not using kegsmarts the standard shelf and location should allow you to get 4 1.75 gallon kegs in there, I don't know about any taller though would be close.

Thanks for the photos. I probably need to order the kegerator and make some adjustments before the first batch is ready.

Are the kegsmarts worth the investment?

 

[Oleary]

I hear you. There's also the unknown. We don't know for sure that the C will be as good nor better than the S. Price is good on the C, but like someone else said, it may not see light before xmas. With the C and a brew unlimited subscriptions, you can be enjoying right now on a tested product.

Add a brewsmart and a kegerator, and you can enjoy your brew like it should be. I am planning to get there soon. I may be in the same boat as you, I've been brewing for a while, but not often the last years due to lack of time. Pico allows me to brew more frequently now. I may end up doing multiple methods, I added the Z to my pledge.

cheers,

Let me know what you think of the Z. That's what I'd really like but I don't think I have the knowledge nor the time spent brewing to make good beer. My BIAB experiments have been so-so at best.

Anyway, thanks for the help and good luck talking the minister into the kegerator.

 

[jrb03]

It looks like an allan key at the tip, I may just try to clearly remove it. Never know.

Cool, thanks for the idea/tip!

Your exactly right, I realized after taking it out that an allen would of worked forgot about that.

Thanks for the photos. I probably need to order the kegerator and make some adjustments before the first batch is ready.

Are the kegsmarts worth the investment?

Of course that's gonna be different in the eyes of each individual, but to me it absolutely is. I love seeing what brews are on tap and how much of each one is left. The co2 plate is handy as well but maybe not completely necessary. Fermentation in the kegerator is real cool and use it for lagers. I don't regret it.

 

[Lbarouf]

I am brewing with the fast fermentation adapter for the first time. I don't own any tilt, so I find it difficult to gauge since there's no bubbles I can look at. Anyhow, It's been roughly 24hrs since I pitched the yeast, and it's clearly in primary phase now. The fast ferment adapter is letting lots of krausen out. Is that normal? I'm guessing that when pressure is too high, that valve has to let the pressure out, and krausen is in the headspace so, I deduct that it's normal.

I am doing the belle of the ball. How would I tell when it's done fermenting without a tilt or airlock to see bubbles ?

 

[jrb03]

First of all an airlock is never a good indication of when fermentation is done. After 20 batches with the tilt I have a good feel for how long these batches take. I recommend 8-10 days for normal batches and 14 for the high abv like Pliny yeti and belle.

Second, the krausen out of FF is called blowoff and can happen with an airlock too, especially with the large beers like belle. It's normal and messy, the Pico brew keg doesn't allow much headspace. I use a few drops of fermcap-s in each batch and never get any blowoff.

Third, you picked a bad brew to try out FF! Belle is a saison, and saison is all about the yeast and the esters it produces. That brew is best fermented hot and with an airlock. The FF suppresses esters produced with warm fermentation, which is a good thing with every beer except saison where you want the funky Belgian flavors.

 

[Lbarouf]

First of all an airlock is never a good indication of when fermentation is done. After 20 batches with the tilt I have a good feel for how long these batches take. I recommend 8-10 days for normal batches and 14 for the high abv like Pliny yeti and belle.

Second, the krausen out of FF is called blowoff and can happen with an airlock too, especially with the large beers like belle. It's normal and messy, the Pico brew keg doesn't allow much headspace. I use a few drops of fermcap-s in each batch and never get any blowoff.

Third, you picked a bad brew to try out FF! Belle is a saison, and saison is all about the yeast and the esters it produces. That brew is best fermented hot and with an airlock. The FF suppresses esters produced with warm fermentation, which is a good thing with every beer except saison where you want the funky Belgian flavors.

Argh. Well, I guess I'll find out when it's done. It's currently fermenting in the regular temperature range, not the FF ones.

Thanks.

 

[jrb03]

Ya it will still be beer lol. Next time high 70s with an airlock.

 

[Oleary]

Pico arrives tomorrows so I should be brewing over the weekend. After reading through the threads, still have a couple of questions:
1) Ambient temperature will be 68 - 70 degrees. Fast ferment or normal?
2) Beyond the first rinse, should I still PBW/StarSan the keg used to brew?
3) Half squeezed or Pico Pale? Is one easier or more consistent? It seems like there were problems with the IPA's?
4) 1 tsp of yeast or has that been fixed?

Any other advice is welcome also.

 

[Oleary]

Of course that's gonna be different in the eyes of each individual, but to me it absolutely is. I love seeing what brews are on tap and how much of each one is left. The co2 plate is handy as well but maybe not completely necessary. Fermentation in the kegerator is real cool and use it for lagers. I don't regret it.

Thanks. They're on backorder right now, so I have some time to decide. Are you only using it for lagers?

Kegco sells a unit that adjusts from 30 - 75 degrees for about the same price as the kegsmarts. Not really apples to apples but are you finding that you need to ferment more than one keg at a time? I guess my question is would a ferment chamber be of more use than the kegsmart? At least to start.

 

[jrb03]

Thanks. They're on backorder right now, so I have some time to decide. Are you only using it for lagers?

Kegco sells a unit that adjusts from 30 - 75 degrees for about the same price as the kegsmarts. Not really apples to apples but are you finding that you need to ferment more than one keg at a time? I guess my question is would a ferment chamber be of more use than the kegsmart? At least to start.

Kegsmarts allows you to ferment and serve at the same time, that's the beauty of the system. I serve two kegs at all times and can ferment a third with the heat jacket. I will mainly be using it for lagers going forward, since they require low temps. I am fermenting ales at room temp,74', with the FF adapter which works great for me. No need for ferm control on my ales. If you get the kegco with digital controls be aware kegsmarts will not work with it if you decide you want it in the future. Kegsmarts needs a kegerator with dial thermostat.

When I brew I always do two batches. Usually two ales that ferment sitting on top of my kegerator with FF valve, or one Ale on kegerator and one lager in it fermenting with kegsmarts controlled heat jacket.

 

[jrb03]

Pico arrives tomorrows so I should be brewing over the weekend. After reading through the threads, still have a couple of questions:
1) Ambient temperature will be 68 - 70 degrees. Fast ferment or normal?
2) Beyond the first rinse, should I still PBW/StarSan the keg used to brew?
3) Half squeezed or Pico Pale? Is one easier or more consistent? It seems like there were problems with the IPA's?
4) 1 tsp of yeast or has that been fixed?

Any other advice is welcome also.

1) your borderline. Personally I would use FF at that temp but try both. According to their literature your well within the standard range but I'm only comfortable up to 70 with an ale yeast and airlock. Fermentation will raise the temp a bit.

2) just rinse out your new keg and brew. Never a need to starsan a brew keg. Sanitation is for anything that touches your wort after brewing.

3) whichever one you want. They are all easy.

4) 1/2 tsp if your using the Included us05 yeast. 1 tsp for saison or lager dry yeast.

Give it more time than the manual tells you, pretty much double their timeline. Cold crash for a couple days before racking. If your using ball lock kegs dry hop an IPA in the serving keg after racking. If your using the Pico serving keg dry hop in the fermentation keg after fermentation is complete but before racking, not after 3 days like the instructions say.

 

[Oleary]

Kegsmarts allows you to ferment and serve at the same time, that's the beauty of the system. I serve two kegs at all times and can ferment a third with the heat jacket. I will mainly be using it for lagers going forward, since they require low temps. I am fermenting ales at room temp,74', with the FF adapter which works great for me. No need for ferm control on my ales. If you get the kegco with digital controls be aware kegsmarts will not work with it if you decide you want it in the future. Kegsmarts needs a kegerator with dial thermostat.

When I brew I always do two batches. Usually two ales that ferment sitting on top of my kegerator with FF valve, or one Ale on kegerator and one lager in it fermenting with kegsmarts controlled heat jacket.

That solves that. I did order the digital controls. It shipped yesterday so probably not economical to return. I like the idea of the kegsmarts though.

Thanks for the answers to my questions above.

Any particular reason you brew two batches?

 

[Oleary]

1) your borderline. Personally I would use FF at that temp but try both. According to their literature your well within the standard range but I'm only comfortable up to 70 with an ale yeast and airlock. Fermentation will raise the temp a bit.

2) just rinse out your new keg and brew. Never a need to starsan a brew keg. Sanitation is for anything that touches your wort after brewing.

3) whichever one you want. They are all easy.

4) 1/2 tsp if your using the Included us05 yeast. 1 tsp for saison or lager dry yeast.

Give it more time than the manual tells you, pretty much double their timeline. Cold crash for a couple days before racking. If your using ball lock kegs dry hop an IPA in the serving keg after racking. If your using the Pico serving keg dry hop in the fermentation keg after fermentation is complete but before racking, not after 3 days like the instructions say.

1/2 tsp? Wow, ok. I do BIAB one gallons and use the whole the pack. (I went back and looked at my notes, I was pitching half a pack but still might be why I was never impressed with my beer?)

I bought another pico ball lock keg and will probably order at least one more. My thought is to use your system, 2 on tap, one carb. Not an IPA person, so probably the half squeezed will be the only one I brew (came with the Pico...). Thanks again for the help. I'm sure I'll be back with more questions...

 

[jrb03]

1/2 tsp? Wow, ok. I do BIAB one gallons and use the whole the pack. (I went back and looked at my notes, I was pitching half a pack but still might be why I was never impressed with my beer?)

I bought another pico ball lock keg and will probably order at least one more. My thought is to use your system, 2 on tap, one carb. Not an IPA person, so probably the half squeezed will be the only one I brew (came with the Pico...). Thanks again for the help. I'm sure I'll be back with more questions...

I know it sounds like a little, but trust me many a funny tasting beer has been drunk to come up with the optimized method we can give you. I'm sure there are pointers I'm forgetting so feel free to ask.

Why not double batches? More beer is better! Actually I use liquid yeast so i brew two batches and split the liquid yeast between them. I never brew two of the same beer though I like variety on tap. Brew two every other week about.

 

[mwills]

Anyone pitching a full smack pack of liquid yeast? I'm planning on doing Denny's Rye IPA and I'm guessing OG is probably around 1.064. I have a couple of pouches of Favorite 50 and based on their date and Mr Malty the estimated cell count is in the ballpark of 66 billion so it sounds like I should probably use the whole thing.
Maybe do a 1 liter starter and split it with a Stout I have on deck?

 

[jrb03]

I always do 2 batches and split it. I have split a vial that I received expired and they took off just as fast as any other batch. I would not hesitate to just split it if you brew two, but if not it won't hurt to pitch the whole pack in one.

 

[Denny]

Anyone pitching a full smack pack of liquid yeast? I'm planning on doing Denny's Rye IPA and I'm guessing OG is probably around 1.064. I have a couple of pouches of Favorite 50 and based on their date and Mr Malty the estimated cell count is in the ballpark of 66 billion so it sounds like I should probably use the whole thing.
Maybe do a 1 liter starter and split it with a Stout I have on deck?

You're fine pitching an entire smack pack into that.

 

[bobbob911]

Why is it okay to pitch a full pack of liquid yeast when we are advocating less than a half of the dry?

 

[mwills]

Thanks guys. I'll pitch the whole pack. I'm used to using one smack pack for three gallon batches and will make a starter for high gravity beers of that size so was a little hesitant. In any case the US-05 flavor will be avoided. I never did care for that one and even at one tsp it really killed two IPA's I've made with the Pico.

 

[jrb03]

Why is it okay to pitch a full pack of liquid yeast when we are advocating less than a half of the dry?

1/2 tsp dry which is about 1/8 of the pack. Cuz US05 produces weird flavors pitching any more than that in a Pico batch. I recently split a yeast cake from a liquid yeast batch, no idea how many yeast cells were in there but it was way above optimal. Damn things started hissing the FF valve in under 2 hours and were done fermenting in like 3 or 4 days, way faster than any other batch I've done. Tasted great. It's just US05 that needs to be pitched low for a cleaner brew for whatever reason.

 

[VagueSkunk]

I used a very small amount (just eyeballed it, it was around .5 tsp) of US05 in my last batch and it tastes like crap. Very buttery taste and smell, pretty much undrinkable.
If I had a time machine and could do it all over again, I wouldn't buy the Pico. I would just spend the money on good BIAB equipment...which is what I'm doing now.

 

[Denny]

Why is it okay to pitch a full pack of liquid yeast when we are advocating less than a half of the dry?

Because a pack of dry yeast contains so many more cells than a pack of liquid. Also, the problem lies with the particular strain of dry yeast.

 

[Denny]

I used a very small amount (just eyeballed it, it was around .5 tsp) of US05 in my last batch and it tastes like crap. Very buttery taste and smell, pretty much undrinkable.
If I had a time machine and could do it all over again, I wouldn't buy the Pico. I would just spend the money on good BIAB equipment...which is what I'm doing now.

I had the same issues until I stopped using the US05 yeast.

 

[Oleary]

Is it just 05 that's causing the problems or any dry yeast?

 

[bobbob911]

I used a very small amount (just eyeballed it, it was around .5 tsp) of US05 in my last batch and it tastes like crap. Very buttery taste and smell, pretty much undrinkable.
If I had a time machine and could do it all over again, I wouldn't buy the Pico. I would just spend the money on good BIAB equipment...which is what I'm doing now.

But to be fair - if you homebrewed from scratch and used US-05 you would have exactly the same problems would you not?

The issue isn't with the Pico, it's with the included yeast (which is easily remedied)

 

[Denny]

Is it just 05 that's causing the problems or any dry yeast?

Specifically 05. It would be interesting to something like 34/70 to see how it does.

 

[Denny]

But to be fair - if you homebrewed from scratch and used US-05 you would have exactly the same problems would you not?

The issue isn't with the Pico, it's with the included yeast (which is easily remedied)

Yes, I agree. That's why I've stopped using 05 no matter how I brew. And in fairness to Picobrew, US-05 is generally acknowledged to be a very clean yeast so they were doing what seemed like the right thing to do. And many people do find it clean and don't get the fruity esters from it.

 

[brew-in]

Every time the Kickstarter gets within a few Zymatics of selling out of the refurbs, Pico Brew adds more. Started offering a good bit less the 50 now the number offerred is almost 100...

 

[mwills]

Specifically 05. It would be interesting to something like 34/70 to see how it does.

I used 34/70 in the Bolderiaan Belgian Blonde and it came out nicely. Probably my favorite so far. The Saison yeast in Belle OF The Ball is also not bad.
I picked up some Bry 97 West Coast that I plan on giving a try in an IPA to compare but that will be at least a month or more away as I've got a Westy 12 clone ready to bottle and brewed the RIPA this morning (pitched the whole smack pack and attached a blow-off, no activity yet).

 

[jrb03]

Is it just 05 that's causing the problems or any dry yeast?

Just the 05. 90% of the packs come with 05 so we tend to do a disservice to the other dry yeasts forgetting that. I've done Bell of the ball with the bell saison yeast and a few lagers but I forget the dry lager yeast they include. Those come out fine. The Pico is a great wort maker the only problem is 05.

 

[Oleary]

Specifically 05. It would be interesting to something like 34/70 to see how it does.

Just the 05. 90% of the packs come with 05 so we tend to do a disservice to the other dry yeasts forgetting that. I've done Bell of the ball with the bell saison yeast and a few lagers but I forget the dry lager yeast they include. Those come out fine. The Pico is a great wort maker the only problem is 05.

Thanks. That's too bad. I wonder why they're not finding an alternative.

For a novice like myself, should I just google yeast substitutes (which I've done) and find an alternative or is there a better resource somewhere? I'm doing two english dark milds next (assuming they can find a fix for my problem). I had planned on using WLP002 (from the google search) but if there's a dry alternative that would work well, probably a little easier (my LHBS is about 45 minutes away). Thanks again for all of the help.

 

[chupalt]

What I don't understand about the whole US-05 thing, is that I used US-05 for years in 5 gallon batches and produced very clean beers with no esters or off flavors. If I chilled the wort fast, aerated with an oxygen stone, and used my fermentation chamber to ferment around 68 everything tasted great. I would expect with the proper brew process and pitching rates you could get very clean tasting beers with US-05 and pico generated wort.