Philly Beer Bar Raided....

[brewt00l]

Netflyer if you go back and read the blogs about the registration process and list previously linked, you'll see that many of the assumptions you have about how it works, its accuracy & where the responsibility for validating registration aren't the case here.

 

[SteveM]

Were'd you see this reported?

The weekend (i.e. Friday) Metro carried the report. I was poking through their web site but I could not find it this morning.

http://www.metro.us/us/news/philly/

 

[Netflyer]

Netflyer if you go back and read the blogs about the registration process and list previously linked, you'll see that many of the assumptions you have about how it works, its accuracy & where the responsibility for validating registration aren't the case here.

If you had a brewpub, maybe you do , wouldn't you make sure all your beers were registered? And, wouldn't you make sure if you put their names up on a chalk or white board wouldn't you make sure you had the correct names? Regardless of exactly who is responsible for this? Because one could argue all day long about who is responsible for the names/regs meanwhile good beer is a wasting and that is a travesty right there.

 

[smokinghole]

In the end you're talking about chemicals/hazmat and CFR 49 if my memory serves me. We're talking about beer. It's not hazardous if a truck carrying beer were to flop over and beer was all over the road there wouldn't be a hazmat response. However if your truck was carrying a strong hydrochloric acid you bet they'd show up. Hell I remember from my DOT classes technically the PH of Coke deserves a Class 7 corrosive placard. As far as I know the TTB is worried about taxes not registration, that's just a way for the state to make additional money.

Side note I was in Maryland yesterday and bought a bottle of Boodles gin for $20 I checked the PLCB website and it's $40 and you must order a case of six. Can anyone tell me why the same gin is half the price across the state border? Wait I know the answer....because PLCB is full of ****.

 

[Netflyer]

Well, I was just trying to use DOT carriers as a similar experience and the outcome would be the same, 'COVER THY BEHIND' ... you don't need to have ALL the MSDS info on a truck but if you do it leads to less issues/questions. Don't you think having all the information at hand would have saved the confiscated beer?

 

[brewt00l]

Well, I was just trying to use DOT carriers as a similar experience and the outcome would be the same, 'COVER THY BEHIND' ... you don't need to have ALL the MSDS info on a truck but if you do it leads to less issues/questions. Don't you think having all the information at hand would have saved the confiscated beer?

What does the fact that agents confiscated brands that were on the list due to confusion over label specifics tell you as it relates to your question above? Just take a few minutes to acquaint yourself with how the PLCB can been as convoluted and unreliable as possible by skimming some of the related posts here:

http://joesixpack.net/blog/
http://noplcb.blogspot.com/
http://www.beerscribe.com/
http://jackcurtin.com/ldo/?p=1489

 

[Netflyer]

What does the fact that agents confiscated brands that were on the list due to confusion over label specifics tell you as it relates to your question above?

Amazing... well we could all wonder and wax poetically about the giant loop holes that allow the governing agencies to swoop down upon us in a legal manner, and it would be quite true. So then it is a no-win situation if you go by names. So, as a database geek I wonder, why not go by numbers? You could call Dude Geuse, Dood Juice, Doot Jooce, etc. as long as it had number 23-345-6789 on it.

I still go back to my original arguement of personal responsibility, or in this case corporate responsibility. Look at all the places now scrambling to make sure all their brands are registered. Their responsibility will prevent raids on their establishments, no?

I store hazmat in my yard, I have to have hazmat containers/placards/fire extinguishers, etc etc. Have I rec'd fines in the past, you bet. I tried to follow directions and just like in this case they came anyhow and found loop holes. Each time I attempt to shore up my defenses. Over the last 30 years we have kept up pretty well with only minor issues but those fines, etc. were all part of the cost of doing biz. At some point you have to make a decision, 'I realize the external environment may be corrupt, can my business exist in it? Can I go on?' If the answer is yes, you take infractions as a matter of fact, you cover your butt as best you can and hire people to become experts in those matters and do whatever it takes to continue your business.

 

[brewt00l]

I still go back to my original arguement of personal responsibility, or in this case corporate responsibility. Look at all the places now scrambling to make sure all their brands are registered. Their responsibility will prevent raids on their establishments, no?

No...those "places" scrambling are breweries or master distributors (think wholesaler point of entry to the state) registering their brands so that tier 2 and 3 can continue to sell their product wholesale and retail, not the operators/owner of the retail part of this picture.

 

[DavidHawman]

Side note I was in Maryland yesterday and bought a bottle of Boodles gin for $20 I checked the PLCB website and it's $40 and you must order a case of six. Can anyone tell me why the same gin is half the price across the state border? Wait I know the answer....because PLCB is full of ****.

1) PLCB controls the entire liquor sales meaning they have no competition, therefore no reason to compete with lower pricing.

2)Even though the PLCB is one of the largest purchasers of liquor in the world it passes absolutely none of the potential purchasing power savings onto consumers, it instead charges more and reaps massive profit. It's as if Wal-Mart charged more than any other retailer even though it gets things for cheap.

3)Taxes. The Pa liquor tax is 18% + the 6% sales tax and you have a 24% mark-up from taxes alone.

So with the no competition, no savings passed onto consumers and high taxes you have the reason.

 

[brewt00l]

3)Taxes. The Pa liquor tax is 18% + the 6% sales tax and you have a 24% mark-up from taxes alone.

10% of that 18% is the "temporary" Johnstown Flood tax


...course that flood was in 1936

 

[SteveM]

Meantime, this thing continues to draw coverage in the news here. Pennsylvania brewers, keep hammering on this issue with the governor's office. Rendell is pretty sensitive to the issue, he was the one who dictated that PLCB enforcement vehicles would no longer be allowed to sit outside of Canal's in Jersey or Tri-State Beverage in Delaware and then follow and arrest people with Pennsylvania plates as they re-enter the state.

From today's paper - if you aren't pissed already, this will help:

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/colu...en_Heller__A_tall__cool_glass_of_context.html

 

[brew hoperator]

That article was a mess from start to finish.

 

[joety]

That Heller gal is another idiot. Instead of coming up with new and interesting ways to tax us to cover the $150M shortfall, how about cutting costs. Isn't this case a prime example of government waste?

But since diet drinks will be exempt, it's a great idea.

 

[SteveM]

That Heller gal is another idiot. Instead of coming up with new and interesting ways to tax us to cover the $150M shortfall, how about cutting costs. Isn't this case a prime example of government waste?

But since diet drinks will be exempt, it's a great idea.

Well, I really linked it because it's relevant to the beer raid discussion. We could go back and forth all day about taxes and spending. It seems like that should be another thread in another section.

 

[Netflyer]

That Heller gal is another idiot. Instead of coming up with new and interesting ways to tax us to cover the $150M shortfall, how about cutting costs. Isn't this case a prime example of government waste?

But since diet drinks will be exempt, it's a great idea.

So true at every level... For example: We just rec'd a letter from the fed gov't telling us to expect another letter (the census) soon. Even at the (best rate of that postage) * (all the people in the country) = are you kidding me!? How many people could that letter to everyone about another letter to everyone have fed?

 

[bonzombiekitty]

According to NPR, the hearings on the beer registration list are going to be about whose responsibility it is to make sure the beers are registered - brewers, distributors, or the bars. The story didn't seem to indicate that they would really be talking about whether or not the whole concept of the registration list is outdated.

Other topics of discussion may be over whether or not to make the PLCB enforcement officers full fledged state police officers so that they can focus on bars where stuff like drug deals happen. According to the guy they talked to the PLCB enforcement officers can't do that right now and if they were in a bar and saw a drug deal take place, they would have to call the police.

 

[brewt00l]

According to NPR, the hearings on the beer registration list are going to be about whose responsibility it is to make sure the beers are registered - brewers, distributors, or the bars. The story didn't seem to indicate that they would really be talking about whether or not the whole concept of the registration list is outdated.

Other topics of discussion may be over whether or not to make the PLCB enforcement officers full fledged state police officers so that they can focus on bars where stuff like drug deals happen. According to the guy they talked to the PLCB enforcement officers can't do that right now and if they were in a bar and saw a drug deal take place, they would have to call the police.

I suspect that based on correspondence I've had with one of my State Reps, the hearings will at the least touch on the raids and the effectiveness of the current process. We'll see.

 

[smokinghole]

I have yet to hear from my Rep. It's been about a week now.

 

[BlueSunshine]

I have yet to hear from my Rep. It's been about a week now.

I'll be shocked if you ever will, and if you do it'll be some canned response.