Philly Beer Bar Raided....

[Jaysus]

Because of this statement:


Implying that home brewed beer is something you need to be protected from.

I assumed he was implying that it is something that is completely illegal to sell in anyway shape or form in PA... aka "Not legit" - as opposed to the very legit brewery he directly preceded that statement with.


heck, I brew in my backyard - being outside is half the fun.

 

[klyph]

But hey, thanks for the iDiagnosis. Sometimes it bleeds when I wipe, can you help with that too?

My post contained no diagnosis. Your trolling needs practice.

I thought it was done out of spite from an anonymous tipster?

"anonymous tipster" means they're not telling you who or why they did it. They are "protecting" you from that knowledge.

 

[klyph]

I assumed he was implying that it is something that is completely illegal to sell in anyway shape or form in PA... aka "Not legit" - as opposed to the very legit brewery he directly preceded that statement with.


heck, I brew in my backyard - being outside is half the fun.

The problem is, none of the confiscated beers were brewed by amateurs, and they are legal in most other non-totalitarian states. He took this incident that had nothing to do with home brewing and used it to take a jab at our hobby. Poor journalistic practice to take something completely irrelevant and include it in your article.

 

[bonzombiekitty]

The problem is, none of the confiscated beers were brewed by amateurs, and they are legal in most other non-totalitarian states. He took this incident that had nothing to do with home brewing and used it to take a jab at our hobby. Poor journalistic practice to take something completely irrelevant and include it in your article.

I don't think that was his intent. I think he was saying, as Jaysus said, that the point of the registered beer list is, according to the PLCB, to make sure that the beer being sold is legal to sell (the one brewed by a brewer is legit because all the taxes on it have been paid etc, the home brew one is not legit because it is not legal to sell).

 

[Jaysus]

My post contained no diagnosis. Your trolling needs practice.

Oh hey, look at that, I misinterpreted the "forced state of paranoid anorexia" jab... kinda like you guys are misinterpreting Nichols' view on home brewers. Seriously, meth labs, moonshine?

 

[BlueSunshine]

kinda like you guys are misinterpreting Nichols' view on home brewers. Seriously, meth labs, moonshine?

If you call something illegitimate without backing up your claim, you're enforcing stereotypes. Moonshine and meth labs ARE a stereotype for home brewers sadly, just do a search to see fellow posters having trouble with suspicious neighbors and police. It was a jab.

 

[klyph]

I don't think that was his intent. I think he was saying, as Jaysus said, that the point of the registered beer list is, according to the PLCB, to make sure that the beer being sold is legal to sell (the one brewed by a brewer is legit because all the taxes on it have been paid etc, the home brew one is not legit because it is not legal to sell).

Oh hey, look at that, I misinterpreted the "forced state of paranoid anorexia" jab... kinda like you guys are misinterpreting Nichols' view on home brewers. Seriously, meth labs, moonshine?

Here let me fix the author's quote so that it actually pertains to the situation, and does not contain an arbitrary reference to a product that was not involved in the case.

Harrisburg enforcement officials say the reason is to protect consumers. How else to know whether the beer is from Victory (legitimately registered for distribution) or Monk's Cafe (not registerd for distribution)?

You see, this revision, though it is much more accurate and appropriate, lacks the sensationalism of his version. Being accurate does not garner the attention that sensationalist yellow journalism does. This man is a troll and a poor journalist IMHO.

 

[Synovia]

If you call something illegitimate without backing up your claim, you're enforcing stereotypes.

The word illegitimate doesn't mean what you think it does.

 

[klyph]

The word illegitimate doesn't mean what you think it does.

Illegitimate is synonymous with illegal, his usage was appropriate.

 

[Synovia]

Illegitimate is synonymous with illegal, his usage was appropriate.

Who do you mean by "his"?


The politician's is surely correct. BlueSunshine's is not. Selling Homebrew most certainly IS illegal.

 

[klyph]

I took BlueSunshine's statement to mean that home brewing is legal, while cooking meth and 'stilling shine are not.

 

[brewt00l]

I don't think that was his intent. I think he was saying, as Jaysus said, that the point of the registered beer list is, according to the PLCB, to make sure that the beer being sold is legal to sell (the one brewed by a brewer is legit because all the taxes on it have been paid etc, the home brew one is not legit because it is not legal to sell).

FWIW, the function of registration is that it's one part of the overall tax process on beer breweries that manufacture, distribute and sell in PA....I don't believe there is any intention to establish any legitimacy. TTB takes care of that part. http://www.ttb.gov/

 

[klyph]

FWIW, the function of registration is that it's one part of the overall tax process on beer breweries that manufacture, distribute and sell in PA....I don't believe there is any intention to establish any legitimacy. TTB takes care of that part. http://www.ttb.gov/

Exactly, they are enforcing tax code. Telling the public that his motivation was to protect consumers is a bold faced lie.

 

[evsjeep527]

I think that you guys all missed that point that Nichols was trying to make. He was being 100% sarcastic.

Re-read the quote and say it out loud to yourself in your favorite sarcastic voice that you normally give the SWMBO. Then it should make a little better sense.

 

[brewt00l]

I think that you guys all missed that point that Nichols was trying to make. He was being 100% sarcastic.

Re-read the quote and say it out loud to yourself in your favorite sarcastic voice that you normally give the SWMBO. Then it should make a little better sense.

That's how I took it... as a tongue in cheek comment.

Jack Curtain is blogging that there's also been a visit to Stockertown:

At least twp PLCB reps, or whoever, were at Stockertown Beverage last night; no beers were seized but orders were given for some beers not to be sold until further notice.

The beat goes on.

http://jackcurtin.com/ldo/?p=1505

Lew Bryson recently posted the hearings have been scheduled for April 13th.

 

[BlueSunshine]

I took BlueSunshine's statement to mean that home brewing is legal, while cooking meth and 'stilling shine are not.

Exactly...

 

[Blindguardian]

We all should just up and move to Germany and be done with it

 

[jakead]

Update:

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100312/D9ED1S3G0.html

 

[brewt00l]

Lew has an interesting piece on the purpose of brand registration:

http://noplcb.blogspot.com/2010/03/why-does-beer-brand-registration-exist.html

"the registration requirement helps the state assure payment of state beer taxes and helps prosecutors identify alcoholic beverages in drunk-driving cases or any other type of prosecution."

Joe 6pk has a nice piece on the pointless of the list for legal identification:

http://joesixpack.net/blog/archives/602

Disclaimers posted on the web sites of both the PLCB and the state of Pennsylvania clearly warn that the contents of the sites should not be used for any legal purposes.

The LOLZ just keep rolling....well, we'll all find out what's up come April 13th.

PA residents, contact your reps and let them know what a crock our liquor code is

 

[mightynintendo]

I am more and more disgusted by distributors. Not so much that they exist but that they are f***ing with laws to take advantage of and monopolize their position. Try getting the general public riled up about that one. Good luck.

 

[joety]

I am more and more disgusted by distributors. Not so much that they exist but that they are f***ing with laws to take advantage of and monopolize their position. Try getting the general public riled up about that one. Good luck.

Yes, they have great lobbyists. That's why you get boiler plate responses like the one from that horse's ass earlier. He's already bought and paid for so he needs to hide behind teen drinking to avoid the real discussion.

 

[MeatyPortion]

Man, what a travesty.

 

[SteveM]

Here is the latest on this disgrace. The rumors now being reported are that this was over Pliny the Younger. The anonymous complainant was rumored to be a competing bar that didn't get any. The ones that got raided got 12 kegs.

 

[flyerwire]

Here is the latest on this disgrace. The rumors now being reported are that this was over Pliny the Younger. The anonymous complainant was rumored to be a competing bar that didn't get any. The ones that got raided got 12 kegs.

seriously? Sounds like a bunch of 8 year olds

 

[Weezknight]

Here is the latest on this disgrace. The rumors now being reported are that this was over Pliny the Younger. The anonymous complainant was rumored to be a competing bar that didn't get any. The ones that got raided got 12 kegs.

So, in the end, the PALCB comes out looking like complete fools with an utterly ridiculous list that they can't even keep straight, and the bar owners in Philly look like a bunch of whiny children. I love my state.

 

[Beerbrothas]

This sounds like another case of the government getting a one sided story from one special interest. What should have happened at the most was they should have paid a fine. The gov't is really out of touch with the majority and trying to please every little person that they hear from.

Some shmucks recently complained about The USS Constitution firing her cannon at sun down. I am glad they were not listened to and she still fires at sundown. The majority needs to be heard not a couple of selfish wackos.

 

[artguy]

Wow, I'd like to see the posts that were deleted on account of being too political, because this whole thread has turned into a rant that uses the actual raids as a Rorschach blot that folks are just imposing their political views on. Apparently PLCB will be running federal healthcare, OSHA is a mistake because we used to be "free" to breathe asbestos at work, etc.

The raids are as stupid as can be, but let's keep it real here...

 

[Beernik]

Here is the latest on this disgrace. The rumors now being reported are that this was over Pliny the Younger. The anonymous complainant was rumored to be a competing bar that didn't get any. The ones that got raided got 12 kegs.

That was exactly my first impression. It had to be another bar owner that turned them in.

 

[brewt00l]

Here is the latest on this disgrace. The rumors now being reported are that this was over Pliny the Younger. The anonymous complainant was rumored to be a competing bar that didn't get any. The ones that got raided got 12 kegs.

Were'd you see this reported?

 

[Netflyer]

Wow, this is an extremely complicated issue and for one thing really brings forth the inadequate system of cataloging beer brands. I have been in the chemical industry for over 30 years and have sold thousands of private label brand chemicals to wholesale distribution and retail. Every product family (same prd. but different sizes makes a family - for beer 12,16,32,keg, cask, etc. needs to be registered in each state it is sold in. Every nick name of that product must be added to the registration and the product carries a number, in my case an EPA number, that identifies the registered seller and the product. So number 123-12345 would cover my registered group:
25# pH+, 15#pH+, 5#pH+ and the various names I have registered pH Up, Raise It, Alk Up, etc.
When they come and check my place (before they might seize the product) they write down my product names and check the number to make sure that name is under the reg.
Different states get different fees but the yearly fees for EACH product family is 50-250/yr. This pays the inspectors..

Sorry for the long journey, but the PLCB would have names and numbers also no? So if I owned a bar it would be my obligation to make sure the brews I was selling had the correct names as registered by the PLCB. You can't carry a beer without checking if it is registered. It seems that their arguement is that the police didn't do enough cross checking for 50% of the confiscated beer and if they had they would have found variants on the names and realized they were legal. What about the other 50%? There was some illegal beer there.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for homebrew, I'm just stating the legal position here. The seller has an obligation to prove legality of their wares. If I get pulled over I have to show the police my license and registration and my MSDS and DOT sheets if I am carrying hazardous materials. Those names on those materials better match or I get my materials confiscated and a substantial fine/jail.

It seems like an inspector could have checked before the raid and just warned the owners to get labels and correct names but perhaps, unlike the EPA the PLCB doesn't have field inspectors and goes straight to the raiding step.