PH Meter Recommendations?

[Morrey]

I apologize for creating a firestorm. To me, and for the type of brewing I do, Ph is critically important. This leads me to needing the most accurate and most reliable meter I can find for a reasonable value. Say I am kettle souring a Gose and each hour that goes by the ph is dropping until the magic moment when I halt souring and begin the boil. This is a very small ph zone and .1 ph is critical in the final outcome. I'd rather have the confidence that a decent meter is in my hand since I can't just run to any store and buy another cheap meter if mine fritzes on a Sunday when I am watching the ph drop like a rock.

Conversely, if I was a brewer who stayed mainstream with somewhat standard beers (apologize for the BCM comment), I would trust Martin Brungard's program and simply add what the program told me. In this regard, I suppose any meter would do since there is no real critical nature of the use as in my case. OR no meter at all is ok here, simply trust Martin.

I suppose it is a simple matter of not only how you want to invest your brewing dollars, but also the type of beers that you are targeting, as in my case, are ph dependent. As a matter of fact, a buddy asked me about meters as he wanted to try Gose brewing. I suggested he try a $15 meter to see if he wanted to continue with sour brewing. I honestly see all the various points being made here. All good.

 

[augiedoggy]

I apologize for creating a firestorm. To me, and for the type of brewing I do, Ph is critically important. This leads me to needing the most accurate and most reliable meter I can find for a reasonable value. Say I am kettle souring a Gose and each hour that goes by the ph is dropping until the magic moment when I halt souring and begin the boil. This is a very small ph zone and .1 ph is critical in the final outcome. I'd rather have the confidence that a decent meter is in my hand since I can't just run to any store and buy another cheap meter if mine fritzes on a Sunday when I am watching the ph drop like a rock.

Conversely, if I was a brewer who stayed mainstream with somewhat standard beers (apologize for the BCM comment), I would trust Martin Brungard's program and simply add what the program told me. In this regard, I suppose any meter would do since there is no real critical nature of the use as in my case. OR no meter at all is ok here, simply trust Martin.

I suppose it is a simple matter of not only how you want to invest your brewing dollars, but also the type of beers that you are targeting, as in my case, are ph dependent. As a matter of fact, a buddy asked me about meters as he wanted to try Gose brewing. I suggested he try a $15 meter to see if he wanted to continue with sour brewing. I honestly see all the various points being made here. All good.

Thank you! I honestly appreciate the point your trying to make as well. I only jumped in with all of this because these points are usually shot down and lost with all the negative assumptions before people can get honest real feedback either way.

 

[LarMoeCur]

The problem with those reviews is they are by folks who have no idea how to use a ph meter this is their first one and many likely wont bother reading the directions with such a minimal investment. Both good and bad reviews there should be taken with a grain of salt unless further info is given by the person leaving the review. This is why a forum like this is a better place for those to actually get more detailed info about whether these are a good buy or not... Be honest with yourself, you have developed your opinion and likely wont change it regardless of whether you have any actual first hand knowledge of the subject like others here right? Especially if you already purchased another meter.

I should have followed those reviews! But instead I read about people here using cheap meters and believed I would be the 1 in 4 that got a good meter. I've read many of your own threads championing these cheap meters. My opinion was developed at the cost of my wallet. I have three low cost meters collecting dust. One worked for 3 brews, the other worked for about 6 months, the other still works but is off by at least .6 if not more. It will not hold calibration no mater what I do.

So far we have how many who use them without issues and how many how really gave them a shot only to find that it broke after a month of working good? 4 with good experiences and 1 without.

I gave them a shot three times. I wasted $50 plus dollars living the dream. Sorry to say but the old saying is true. You get what you pay for.

Why does the OP need to spend <$100 for a meter that "will last" theres a good chance he may use it a couple times and realize its not really doing him much good either way and stoop using it. Ive seen a number of people here clam they no longer bother using a ph meter or strips and instead rely on things like brun water or acid malt or 5.2 stabilizer... I think $12 is a worthwhile investment for some to make and if they feel its so important to them that they need to spend much more thats great... But the point here is these meters work well for many home brewers..

I now own 4 meters. And I'm trying to prevent the OP from making the same mistake that a lot of people on HBT and other forums have made. Like I said, I've spent hours reading post on pH meters. There is an overwhelming number of cheap meter post that talk about how they break or do not work correctly. So in your opinion these meters work well. In my opinion. You should count yourself lucky. I believe you beat the odds. I have three, I guess you would call me unlucky. The reviews, the post, my own experiences indicate these meters are junk. Should he spend the 100 on a meter? No. Should he spend 12 on a meter? Same answer no. Buy a pound of hops or have your water tested. Use a spread sheet it's free. I still use Bru'nwater even with a high dollar meter. It's pretty damn accurate!

There's a reason why Harbor Freight sells a volt meter for $3.99 and Fluke sells them for them for $100. There are no short cuts with scientific equipment like this. There's a reason why labs don't use 12 dollar meters. Call your local Brewery and ask them what meter they use if they even use one. I have and not one of them would bet 15 barrels of beer on a 12 dollar meter. So, why bet 5 gallons?

 

[Morrey]

Well, for and against arguments have been presented, now the OP has to weigh the importance the meter's value will be to him.

For standard beers, the $15 meter may work just fine and last many uses. If it fails you didn't invest unnecessarily. Water management programs take most of the guesswork from your own measurements anyway.

For more serious ph related brewing measurements, the OP may elect to spend a bit more.

BUT, if the OP doesn't really have a specific goal in mind other than a ph meter would be neat to try, the $100 route may very well be an overkill.

Now its up to the OP.

 

[Sadu]

My $6 meter broke when I donged it against the side of a glass while shaking off the drips. I was sooooo glad that I was using a cheap meter because a good meter would have done the same thing. Until that point I got 20 or so brews out of it and it served its purpose very well. Guess I beat the odds too.
If the replacement dies prematurely I will probably revert to just trusting brunwater which is fine for the sort of stuff I brew.

 

[augiedoggy]

I should have followed those reviews! But instead I read about people here using cheap meters and believed I would be the 1 in 4 that got a good meter. I've read many of your own threads championing these cheap meters. My opinion was developed at the cost of my wallet. I have three low cost meters collecting dust. One worked for 3 brews, the other worked for about 6 months, the other still works but is off by at least .6 if not more. It will not hold calibration no mater what I do.



I gave them a shot three times. I wasted $50 plus dollars living the dream. Sorry to say but the old saying is true. You get what you pay for.



I now own 4 meters. And I'm trying to prevent the OP from making the same mistake that a lot of people on HBT and other forums have made. Like I said, I've spent hours reading post on pH meters. There is an overwhelming number of cheap meter post that talk about how they break or do not work correctly. So in your opinion these meters work well. In my opinion. You should count yourself lucky. I believe you beat the odds. I have three, I guess you would call me unlucky. The reviews, the post, my own experiences indicate these meters are junk. Should he spend the 100 on a meter? No. Should he spend 12 on a meter? Same answer no. Buy a pound of hops or have your water tested. Use a spread sheet it's free. I still use Bru'nwater even with a high dollar meter. It's pretty damn accurate!

There's a reason why Harbor Freight sells a volt meter for $3.99 and Fluke sells them for them for $100. There are no short cuts with scientific equipment like this. There's a reason why labs don't use 12 dollar meters. Call your local Brewery and ask them what meter they use if they even use one. I have and not one of them would bet 15 barrels of beer on a 12 dollar meter. So, why bet 5 gallons?

You mean me and the other 5 users who chimed in already should "count ourselves lucky" right?
The fact that you had such failures with three of these in a row does raise other questions from an analytical point of view as far as their being another possible factor here.

I own no less than 5 fluke multimeters myself 4 of them being very expensive models. and bunch cheap $5 harbor freight volt meters they often give away free...First off they are not the same at all with the fluke having many more functions. And it would be silly for joe home owner to go out and buy a $300 fluke just to check the voltage of a couple of unmarked wires he found in his wall or see which plug is on what unmarked breaker and then maybe use it once or twice more in his lifetime right? Or are you saying the cheap HF meter wont tell you if you have 120v or nothing on those wires? Come on man!

I find for something simple like checking voltage the cheap meters read the same as my flukes and again they each have their place where they make more sense... If im working on a $700,000 printer then yeah I use the fluke in my bag. But it im checking the voltage on a car battery or testing an alternator then I use the cheap HF meter I leave in the toolbox of my truck because it honestly works just as well and I wont be out an expensive meter if it goes missing. Same with leaving one at my cabin for checking voltage on an outlet. Again the point it your comparing apples to oranges with professional lab use vs checking sparge water while making beer at home.

lets compare some other things where your analogy doesnt ring true like many of the auto computer scanners you find at the auto store that only have simple diagnostic and code reseting functions for $200 to something like a cheap ELM327 bluetooth OBDII scanner which does everything and soo much more for $12 and a pc or smartphone with the free torque app?
NO you dont always get what you pay for. Sometimes being an educated consumer and not shopping based on marketing, brand names and price alone can really benefit a person. once in a while I like to make a smoothy but that doesnt mean I needed to spend $500 on a top of the line blender to do it either... now if I owned a restaurant well I might...

I can brew cheap no name beer at home for like what 50 cents a bottle and popular name brand craft beers are more like $5 a bottle at the store.... surely that means all name brand mass produced professionally brewed beer is better right? Because you always get what you pay for right? Afterall the branding indicates its from germany or ireland, even though the truth is it may be contract brewed at the old pabst brewery by Miller like a Guinness blond (oh wait that ones brewed in the rolling rock brewery in latrobe.) or have nothing to do with the brand on the bottle like the Stella hard apple cider thats made by Bud in NY and not even available in Belgium .. If you believe and assume what they all want you to, you would be a very gullible person. But also a model consumer. And this is why companies like inbev can get away with buying and suceed with owning companies like northern brewer and midwest supplies who many still believe are competing companies even though that hasnt been true for years. In short that one size fits all phrase just isnt true these days.

 

[HeyStringGuy]

The enormously expensive lab I brought my water to for initial testing recommended the Oakton pH meter, and also suggested I get at least seven buffers. I think the buffers are liquids used to calibrate the probe.

 

[FranklinNewhart]

I apologize for creating a firestorm. To me, and for the type of brewing I do, Ph is critically important. This leads me to needing the most accurate and most reliable meter I can find for a reasonable value. Say I am kettle souring a Gose and each hour that goes by the ph is dropping until the magic moment when I halt souring and begin the boil. This is a very small ph zone and .1 ph is critical in the final outcome. I'd rather have the confidence that a decent meter is in my hand since I can't just run to any store and buy another cheap meter if mine fritzes on a Sunday when I am watching the ph drop like a rock.

Conversely, if I was a brewer who stayed mainstream with somewhat standard beers (apologize for the BCM comment), I would trust Martin Brungard's program and simply add what the program told me. In this regard, I suppose any meter would do since there is no real critical nature of the use as in my case. OR no meter at all is ok here, simply trust Martin.

I suppose it is a simple matter of not only how you want to invest your brewing dollars, but also the type of beers that you are targeting, as in my case, are ph dependent. As a matter of fact, a buddy asked me about meters as he wanted to try Gose brewing. I suggested he try a $15 meter to see if he wanted to continue with sour brewing. I honestly see all the various points being made here. All good.

Well here is my final suggestion on this forum. Take and buy one two or a bunch of cheap ones and one of the hundred dollar ones. Now you have three to compare. Now next get yourself a number of Ph solutions of different values and a jug of distilled water. You can buy these solutions already made up or you can use a measured amount of distilled water and the dry packet of Ph solution mix. Wash all your probes really well in the distilled water. Make sure all your batteries are brand new from the store. Throw away the ones that came with the meter. They are not up to snuff. Get good batteries. Now follow the instruction very closely in how to use a Ph meter. Clean the probe in Distilled water. Calibrate the unit with at least three Ph Solutions High, Low, and Mid. Then take your measurments. When you are finished, again clean your probes and dry before putting you Ph meter away. And do not forget to turn it off. If you need accuracy then learn how to do accuracy in a professional laboratory manner.

 

[k1ngl1ves]

I have the Hach Pocket Pro Plus and Milwaukee M102. Hach is much faster and more stable in my opinion.

^^^^ I hear this often from friends.^^^^

I absolutely love my mw102! With that said, I'd probably buy the Hach if I had to do it all over again. I just hear too much good stuff about it. I'm very happy with my 102 though, and have absolutely no complaints. Worth every penny.

 

[Jtk78]

http://www.thermoworks.com/High-Accuracy-pH-Meter-8689

Any thoughts or others using this? I've read positive feedback on other brewing forums. It's still about half the price of the MW102, so there's still a significant savings if it's a decent meter.
Thanks.

 

[Morrey]

http://www.thermoworks.com/High-Accuracy-pH-Meter-8689

Any thoughts or others using this? I've read positive feedback on other brewing forums. It's still about half the price of the MW102, so there's still a significant savings if it's a decent meter.
Thanks.

I have Thermapens, a Chef's Alarm and a Smoke BBQ remote monitor all by Thermoworks and can say they are all top notch products. I'd be very interested to learn if this ph meter is on par with their other products.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

Well here is my final suggestion on this forum. Take and buy one two or a bunch of cheap ones and one of the hundred dollar ones. Now you have three to compare. Now next get yourself a number of Ph solutions of different values and a jug of distilled water. You can buy these solutions already made up or you can use a measured amount of distilled water and the dry packet of Ph solution mix. Wash all your probes really well in the distilled water. Make sure all your batteries are brand new from the store. Throw away the ones that came with the meter. They are not up to snuff. Get good batteries. Now follow the instruction very closely in how to use a Ph meter. Clean the probe in Distilled water. Calibrate the unit with at least three Ph Solutions High, Low, and Mid. Then take your measurments. When you are finished, again clean your probes and dry before putting you Ph meter away. And do not forget to turn it off. If you need accuracy then learn how to do accuracy in a professional laboratory manner.

SUPERSALE Digital pH Meter by Just Utile - Tester for Water Quality, Aquarium, Pool, Hydroponics and more | High Accuracy of 0 - 14 and ATC | 6 Calibration Buffer Powder Sachets | Blue Backlit Display https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01GDC4GQM/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Tried this one, no go. Attempted to calibrate 4 times and continued to get erratic readings. Weighed the distilled water, rinsed with distilled water and dried w/ filter paper between each calibration/ reading. On its way back to Amazon and the Dr. Meter on its way. I'll update Friday but reviews are much better on the Dr. The other one came up on lightning deals (love homebrewfinds !) and I jumped on it. C'est la vie!

Dr.Meter 0.1pH PH002 High Accuracy pH Meter/pH Pen Tester with ATC LCD 0-14 pH Measurement Range https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00PU0W35K/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[day_trippr]

Using distilled water as any kind of validation test is pretty near meritless, imo.
Anything you buy at a grocery will be in an air-permeable container and distilled water is a freakin' sponge for CO2 which drops the pH by tenths in short order...

Cheers!

 

[TANSTAAFB]

I should have clarified that I weighed the distilled water for the buffering powders. Not using it for validation test

 

[rhys333]

I use the Thermoworks 8689, and I'm very happy with it. Simple to use, highly accurate, and budget friendly. Also really good customer service.

https://www.thermoworks.com/High-Accuracy-pH-Meter-8689


EDIT: what the heck? I guess this is an zombie thread. Not sure how it got pushed to the top for me.

 

[kevin58]

@rhys333 Your response came in handy for me. Appreciate the link.

 

[Rev2010]

I see this is an older thread but since it's bumped I'll add my meter. I went with this one:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01ENFOIQE/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Really liking it so far. Calibration is a cinch, but I was frustrated initially as I didn't realize after doing the first 7ph step if you go to calibrate again it will be looking for the 4ph calibration fluid automatically. I've calibrated and moved between solutions and it hits right on point. Beats the heck out of the Milwaukee pen ph tester I had.


Rev.

 

[day_trippr]

I've read the manual for the PH60. I find it quite attractive for a number of reasons (specs, sensor price, semi-manual calibration, color screen - and a totally unambiguous and frankly practical storage procedure). I'm thinking of adding one to my collection...

Cheers!

 

[jcav]

Looks like a nice meter Rev, thanks for posting. I have a Hanna Phep 5 and I am on my second probe (first one lasted a year and a half). Might look into this one to see if it works better. Mine is starting to drift again and I would have to buy another probe for it again. I know the probes don't last forever, but I would like to get a little more use out of it before having to replace it. I always use storage solution and I take care of my probes so it is not for lack of care.

John

 

[Rev2010]

Looks like a nice meter Rev, thanks for posting. I have a Hanna Phep 5 and I am on my second probe (first one lasted a year and a half). Might look into this one to see if it works better.

Keep in mind it's actually a kit that also comes with a case and a bit of calibration and storage solutions to start you off right away which I thought was cool. I also bought this kit of the solutions which I found convenient to get all in one box: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MSZ4Q7Z/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


Rev.

 

[day_trippr]

It would be awesome if someone with a PH60 would run @ajdelange's "stability test" found at the bottom of his post here...

Cheers!

 

[rhys333]

This reminds me, I need to buy more buffer solution from thermoworks before next brew day.

Also, @jcav , I've been storing my probe in distilled water and so far so good. I've heard contradictory info and decided to go the cheapo route and see what happens. How long are your probes lasting before they drift? Or perhaps I should ask, how many batches?

 

[day_trippr]

DI for storage is almost certainly not a good idea. It's bound to be leaching K, CL, and who else knows what else that's in the electrolyte...

Cheers!

 

[rhys333]

DI for storage is almost certainly not a good idea. It's bound to be leaching K, CL, and who else knows what else that's in the electrolyte...

Cheers!

I was going to buy storage solution until the advisor told me the stuff isnt worth the money when you factor in the cost of the probe vs solution and the minute (?) difference in probe longevity. I decided to put it to the test, and I suppose the proof will be in the pudding.

 

[passedpawn]

My pH meter instructed me to store the sensor end in 4pH cal solution. There's a sponge in the cap and I keep it saturated with that.

 

[jcav]

This reminds me, I need to buy more buffer solution from thermoworks before next brew day.

Also, @jcav , I've been storing my probe in distilled water and so far so good. I've heard contradictory info and decided to go the cheapo route and see what happens. How long are your probes lasting before they drift? Or perhaps I should ask, how many batches?

I always store my probe in storage solution. I get about 15 batches out of it ( I brew 10 gallon batches once a month) and then it starts to drift and I have to buy another probe. This last probe though only lasted about 10 batches in and then I noticed it started to drift. I just ordered some cleaning solution (kind of expensive) and I will try cleaning the probe with that. I am getting the feeling some of these probes are hit or miss on how long they last......

John

 

[rhys333]

I always store my probe in storage solution. I get about 15 batches out of it ( I brew 10 gallon batches once a month) and then it starts to drift and I have to buy another probe. This last probe though only lasted about 10 batches in and then I noticed it started to drift. I just ordered some cleaning solution (kind of expensive) and I will try cleaning the probe with that. I am getting the feeling some of these probes are hit or miss on how long they last......

John

Okay, thanks. Just checked my notes and I guess I'm at 25 batches on my thermoworks probe. I actually thought it was a lot less.

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, this is Thermowork's pH sensor care document...

Cheers!

 

[rhys333]

fwiw, this is Thermowork's pH sensor care document...

Cheers!

I read that before purchasing. The advisor told me it's an unnecessary expense and distilled will work fine. He had more than a passing knowledge, but I'm not saying he's right. I just decided to try it for the $30 or so cost for the probe. I can honestly say it's performing very well, and I'm actually shocked that I'm 25 batches into it. I thought maybe 10.

I store in distilled and rehydrate in the same for ~25 minutes. In between solutions and afterwards, I flush with tap water, then distilled, and back into storage. I don't know... it's been working.

 

[augiedoggy]

We have like 4 different ones now at the brewery including a Milwaukee 102, a cheap hanna, some green one that looks like a rebranded version of the blue one rev2010 posted above and a $11 no name red atc I brought from home and still the cheap red one is the most reliable out of the bunch holding calibration longer... go figure. I already had to replace the probe on the 102 after using it one the probe would no longer recalibrate which ? I assume was because of some defect since it was stored in the solution it came in. new one works but the meter takes a long time to reach a decision and it wanders a bit requiring constant recalibration.

I will share if it hasnt been shared already that the storage solution for the Milwaukee meters does not work for the cheapy meters. Totally messes them up. distilled water works the best for them.