pH meter recommendations, please?

[Buckeye_Hydro]

We have a calibration solution kit here: pH Calibration Fluid Kit - Buckeye Hydro

We have pH storage solution here:
https://www.buckeyehydro.com/ph-electrode-storage-solution/
The meter comes with a nice cup that seals the probe/storage solution in.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

OK. Thanks.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Hmm... now told "The coupon code you entered couldn't be applied to any items in your order." The MW 102 is in the cart. Guess I'll have to try again later.

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

wth. I just checked out as a guest and it worked fine.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Maybe a problem with Microsoft Edge. I'll try a different browser.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

I click on the Warranty link and I'm taken to a blank Warranty page. Hmm... does this mean no warranty?

http://www.buckeyehydro.com/warranty/
Not getting a "warm and fuzzy feeling".

I'd really like to purchase from a USA seller, especially in these times. Tell me how many people are working at Buckeye Hydro? How many people are able to still working during the pandemic?

Reading the ph Meter info I do see "The warranty period commences from the original date of sale and is valid on the date Milwaukee receives the warranty registration form." So the pH meters are actually warranted by Milwaukee Instruments, but purchasers actually lose a few days while the ph Meter is in transit to us. In other words, we purchase the pH meter on a Monday. For some strange reason we don't receive until Friday, we've lost 4 days of the coverage/replacement without actually having the pH meter to use.

 

[couchsending]

I click on the Warranty link and I'm taken to a blank Warranty page. Hmm... does this mean no warranty?

http://www.buckeyehydro.com/warranty/
Not getting a "warm and fuzzy feeling".

I'd really like to purchase from a USA seller, especially in these times. Tell me how many people are working at Buckeye Hydro? How many people are able to still working during the pandemic?

Reading the ph Meter info I do see "The warranty period commences from the original date of sale and is valid on the date Milwaukee receives the warranty registration form." So the pH meters are actually warranted by Milwaukee Instruments, but purchasers actually lose a few days while the ph Meter is in transit to us. In other words, we purchase the pH meter on a Monday. For some strange reason we don't receive until Friday, we've lost 4 days of the coverage/replacement without actually having the pH meter to use.

You’re seriously worried about 4 days of Warranty coverage?

Never worked with @Buckeye_Hydro but they’ve been a member since 2013 and are a sponsor on here. Generally you don’t get to far as a business who wants a web presence by screwing people over.

Had my MW102 for three years. I’ve probably measured pH over 1000 times during that period. I treat the probe as it should be treated but otherwise take very little care to treat the meter itself different than anything else. It gets dropped, tossed around, etc. Never had an issue, never even changed the battery.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Not accusing them of screwing anyone over. Didn't get a good feeling when the Warranty page came up blank.

I do appreciate the pH meter case and use info. Good to know.

 

[passedpawn]

Not accusing them of screwing anyone over. Didn't get a good feeling when the Warranty page came up blank.

I do appreciate the pH meter case and use info. Good to know.

This was on their site. I think you're going a little overboard over a simple pH meter.

Warranties. Most products purchased from BH come with a 1 year limited warranty against defective materials and workmanship. This warranty covers, and is limited to, repair and/or replacement of defective merchandise at our discretion, and shipping replacement or repaired parts from BH to you.
This limited warranty does not apply to failure of the product resulting from misuse, abuse, accident, neglect, mishandling, installation not in accordance with professional standards, wear from ordinary use, or lack of regular maintenance. Your purchase constitutes your agreement that 1) you understand components made from plastic and other materials used in pressurized water systems are subject to leaks, and 2) you bear full responsibility to frequently inspect products, and 3) products purchased from this website should be installed in such a way that leaks, caused by merchandise defects, material fatigue, merchandise use or misuse, or your installation; will not cause damage nor go un-noticed by you.
EXCEPT FOR THE EXPRESS WARRANTIES SET FORTH ABOVE, ALL PRODUCTS ARE PROVIDED STRICTLY "AS IS," WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY. ALL OTHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED CONDITIONS, REPRESENTATIONS, AND WARRANTIES, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION, ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES OR CONDITIONS OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, SATISFACTORY QUALITY, AGAINST INFRINGEMENT OR ARISING FROM A COURSE OF DEALING, USAGE, OR TRADE PRACTICE, ARE HEREBY EXCLUDED TO THE EXTENT ALLOWED BY APPLICABLE LAW. Additional warranties may be available from component manufacturers as specified in the product description.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Read as typical legal/lawyer CYA to me.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

The article
http://www.brunwater.com/articles/ph-meter-recommendations
states " All mash pH measurement should be performed at room-temperature to avoid the measurement errors created by the temperature effects on the probe and chemically in the mash. " IMO, what a PITA. Is this really necessary for the MW 102? (Getting the sample to room temp?) If so, what a tremendous waste of time for each test.

 

[day_trippr]

[shrug] In the course of a brew day I typically perform five pH checks (mash: 20, 40, 60 minutes, last runnings from fly sparging, then an all-in boil kettle check. I have a pair of Sam Adams tasting glasses (from the Jamaica Plain facility), and I set up a soup bowl of ice water on a saucer on the bench.

When I draw a small sample with one of the glasses (well under an ounce - just enough to submerge the pH sensor) I stick it in the ice water and find something else to do for the time it takes to drop into the low 70s. Which isn't long, maybe five minutes if I don't swirl the glass, a minute or so if I do.

It really isn't onerous, there are plenty of brew day actions to interleave with the cool-down sampling times...

Cheers!

 

[couchsending]

The article
http://www.brunwater.com/articles/ph-meter-recommendations
states " All mash pH measurement should be performed at room-temperature to avoid the measurement errors created by the temperature effects on the probe and chemically in the mash. " IMO, what a PITA. Is this really necessary for the MW 102? (Getting the sample to room temp?) If so, what a tremendous waste of time for each test.

Jesus you’re a hard person to please.

The probe on any pH meter will fail much faster if testing at mash pH temps.

Simply take 20ml of wort and pit it in a cold water bath for 5 minutes and it should be cooled down close to room temps.

You should do this with any meter. Cheap or spendy.

 

[augiedoggy]

We use a milwaukee 102 meter at the brew pub. At first I was not impressed but then I discovered I had a poor probe and after buying a better replacement for $40 on amazon its been rock solid for almost a year now. (we do always run our samples under cold water to cool as mentioned above)
As far as the cheaper one piece meters, We have used a handful including the hannas and honestly I found the $10 no name red and yellow ones seem work as well but you have to keep the probes wet. (we use these for our sours) The milwaukee is more stable requiring less calibrations.

I did just buy more calibration solution and found this to be a good value,
https://www.ebay.com/itm/pH-Calibra...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

 

[balrog]

...pH measurement should be performed at room-temperature to avoid the measurement errors created by the temperature effects on the probe and chemically in the mash. " IMO, what a PITA...If so, what a tremendous waste of time for each test.

Keep in mind that pH is actually different at different temps, same sample, and "temp correction" does not "fix" this, it only corrects measurement at diff temp than calibration solution temps. See, for instance, this

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

I preface by writing I've never used a pH meter nor have any experience with a pH meter.

I'm finding conflicting information concerning the ATC. Online video using a pH meter during mashes just puts the meter probes into the mash. However, searching the net I find instructions stating the probes are placed into the solution under test at the same temp as was done to calibrate the meter. Which is correct? I don't know.

If, in fact, the solution being tested must be at the same temp as was done to calibrate the meter, what is the purpose of the temp probe? IMO, seems unnecessary. However, once again, I don't know.

Similar to cleaning the probe. Some rinse using tap water, some use cleaning solution, some use distilled water. Some assert to NOT wipe the probe while other use a soft cloth to wipe the probe. Which is correct?

 

[augiedoggy]

I preface by writing I've never used a pH meter nor have any experience with a pH meter.

I'm finding conflicting information concerning the ATC. Online video using a pH meter during mashes just puts the meter probes into the mash. However, searching the net I find instructions stating the probes are placed into the solution under test at the same temp as was done to calibrate the meter. Which is correct? I don't know.

If, in fact, the solution being tested must be at the same temp as was done to calibrate the meter, what is the purpose of the temp probe? IMO, seems unnecessary. However, once again, I don't know.

Similar to cleaning the probe. Some rinse using tap water, some use cleaning solution, some use distilled water. Some assert to NOT wipe the probe while other use a soft cloth to wipe the probe. Which is correct?

unless theres some special probe im unaware of, people who are just sticking the ph meter into the mash likely dont know what they are doing. Even ph probes that are rated for high temps will have a dramatically shortened probe life by subjecting them to high temps.

There are different types of ph probe tech some require water some require special solutions for best results. My cheapy $10 meters use water for example and if the probe dries up I have to clean it and soak it for a while before recalibrating. im using hanna storage solution for my milwaukee meter and it works fine. Ive only rinsed that probe.. never wiped.

 

[ITV]

I preface by writing I've never used a pH meter nor have any experience with a pH meter.

I'm finding conflicting information concerning the ATC. Online video using a pH meter during mashes just puts the meter probes into the mash. However, searching the net I find instructions stating the probes are placed into the solution under test at the same temp as was done to calibrate the meter. Which is correct? I don't know.

If, in fact, the solution being tested must be at the same temp as was done to calibrate the meter, what is the purpose of the temp probe? IMO, seems unnecessary. However, once again, I don't know.

Similar to cleaning the probe. Some rinse using tap water, some use cleaning solution, some use distilled water. Some assert to NOT wipe the probe while other use a soft cloth to wipe the probe. Which is correct?

I feel your pain. I reviewed the instructions on Milwaukee's website for the MW102 pH meter and it "suggests" 32 - 158 deg F temps with the ATC and no mention of taking samples at "room" temperature.
Sometimes you have to take the manufactures litature with a grain of salt, I often find that the marketing people get to include "false" information in the litature.
As an example I bought a new roof ventilation fan about 10 years ago that stated "sealed bearings". Now it is squeeling like a stuck pig and when I took it down to investigate I find that it has provisions to oil the bearings. If I had ignored the marketing BS and bothered to look if it had provisions to oil the bearings, I would have done so yearly.

In fact the homebrewing hobby is full of conflicting information: do I add water to the grains, do I add grains to the water, etc. Fortunately I started homebrewing before the internet and I followed Charlie Papazian's advice "don't worry have a homebrew". Now I do research on the internet, magazine articles, books and advice from my fellow homebrew club members and end up coming to my own conclusions based on trial, error and results from my own experience.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

I feel your pain. I reviewed the instructions on Milwaukee's website for the MW102 pH meter and it "suggests" 32 - 158 deg F temps with the ATC and no mention of taking samples at "room" temperature.

Have a pH meter? If so, take a reading at mash or room temp?

 

[ITV]

Have a pH meter? If so, take a reading at mash or room temp?

Yes, I have the MW102. Initially I was taking temps at mash temps but found that the meter took a long time to stabilize and the readings would continue to drift. After soaking the probe in cleaning solution and recalbrating the meter I now put a sample of my mash into a stainless steel sauce pan, allow it to cool to room temp (15 minutes) and take a reading. I find that the meter stabilizes quickly and no longer drifts. I only take one reading toward the end of my mash to confirm that I am within pH range.

I use RO water along with Beersmith software which calculates my lactic acid amount which I find it to be dead on, so I am using my pH meter to verify the results. Which brings me to another conflict: should I worry about mash pH when using RO water? From my experience I add the recommended amount of lactic acid and my mash pH is dead on so I will continue to do so regardless of what other people are stating.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Following from BYO "Mr. Wizard"
http://byo.com/mr-wizard/setting-record-straight-mash-ph/
"My view is that references in the literature refer to mash pH, measured at mash temperature. Not mash samples that have been cooled to room temperature and measured."

 

[couchsending]

Following from BYO "Mr. Wizard"
http://byo.com/mr-wizard/setting-record-straight-mash-ph/
"My view is that references in the literature refer to mash pH, measured at mash temperature. Not mash samples that have been cooled to room temperature and measured."

you can find just as many articles that will say the opposite

 

[day_trippr]

Taking pH readings at mash temperature surely will result in spending $$ on replacement sensors otherwise unnecessarily, and to what end?
There seems to be plenty of data that can correlate room temperature readings to mash temperature pH...

Cheers!

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

I'm reading all the HBT posts and other posts I can locate on this matter.

IMO, don't watch "PH Manipulation for Mash and Sparge" at youtube as it's a complete waste of time and misleading too. I really don't understand why people making "instructional" videos don't 1. Plan their video and 2. Edit their video.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Recommended amount of mash sample for pH reading?

Recommended quickest way to get the sample to room temp for testing the pH?

 

[day_trippr]

The least needed to completely immerse the sensor nodes.
Sample in a small glass, then immerse that in a small bowl of ice water. Swirl if you're really in a hurry...

Cheers!

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

It's my understanding the temp probe, of the pH meter, is outside the sample being pH measured as the measurement is being done, at room temp, same as when calibrated. Is this correct?

 

[The M]

Milwaukee PH56. No complaints, works like a charm

 

[TLaffey]

+1 on the Extech. I've been using the same one--still using the original probe--one day a month for about three years now. I could almost skip calibrating before using it, but I do anyway (using the Milwaukee "sachet" buffers).

View attachment 688843

 

[couchsending]

Keep in mind mash pH is one of maybe 5 different times pH should be measured before the wort hits the fermenter. All those different times will have different temps. If you cool all of them to room temp you have a baseline to go off of, and you won’t ruin your probe in 6 months. pH is a great way to measure the success of the whole beer making process.

Mash pH
Sparge water pH
Final runnings pH
Kettle full pH
pH with 10 minutes left
Knockout pH

pH measurements throughout fermentation
pH before and after dry hop
Final beer pH

All these instances will give you great reference points to how successful (or not) the process has been up to that point.