Pellets Vs Leaf Hops

[zhubbell]

Hey guys,

I am switching over to All grain now, and I've always wanted to use leaf hops - any info on preferences, how to alter a recipe (I'm guessing you use more weight if leaf than pellets, but I don't know), can it be stored long term in the freezer?

Any info will be helpful!

 

[ArcaneXor]

Personally, I don't alter the recipe. Some use 10% more leaf hops than pellet.

Vacuum-sealed, they store very well in the freezer.

 

[unionrdr]

I've used the same amount by weight whole leaf vs pellet hops. but whole leaf hops have greater volume for the same weight. Thus they also make a bigger mess to deal with. I think pellet hops give more bittering more easily than whole leaf hops do. But whole leaf seems to give a rounder flavor of the hops used.

 

[fearwig]

Hey guys,

I am switching over to All grain now, and I've always wanted to use leaf hops - any info on preferences, how to alter a recipe (I'm guessing you use more weight if leaf than pellets, but I don't know), can it be stored long term in the freezer?

Any info will be helpful!

Leaf's great in the freezer, I've had pounds for a year or so without much loss of aroma (can't speak to alpha acids, but bittering potential of any hop doesn't seem to fade that much in the freezer to me). I don't have a vacuum sealer, but I use a firm straw to suck most the air out of the big ziploc I put the rest of the bag into (bag and all) right as I'm zipping it. Comes pretty close. I don't alter the recipe.

I do find the racking goes more easily with leaf--they retain some liquid but you don't get that thick pulpy sludge you do with pellet (though some seem to prefer that, since they have break material to deal with anyway). I feel like you get some more bright, flowery aroma from leaf, especially with citrusy American hops like Cascade and Citra.

 

[johngaltsmotor]

If they're commercial whole leaf I don't change anything. For my homegrown hops I use 20% extra but that's to account for less than ideal growing conditions, nothing to do with leaf vs pellet.

If you're going to try whole leaf I would recommend a big paint strainer in the boil. It will still let them float around and distribute their oils, but it will prevent a lot of headaches when you go to transfer to the primary. Nothing worse than getting a hop stuck in a hose/tube/valve/fitting.

As for preference, whatever hops you like in pellet will taste the same in whole leaf. The only difference you might notice could be freshness depending on supplier.

I foodsaver my homegrown and even after a whole year they still brew great. I've never done AAU testing to know how much they degrade, but the IIPA I brew in November tastes the same when I brew it the next July.

 

[unionrdr]

Well,in my experiences,you get less amount of gunk with pellets than leaf. Which is always a bonus when straining the chilled wort into the fermenter. Whole leaf hops are a bigger,bulkier mess,imo. but the flavor of whole leaf is more rounded to me.

 

[TxBigHops]

When dry hopping with leaf, are there any sanitation concerns or procedures? I'm dry hopping an IPA tonight. I have Hop Union whole leaf hops in a sealed foil pouch. Do I just sanitize my hop sack, then open the foil pouch and dump them in? Or do the hops themselves need to be sanitized?

Thanks.

 

[Croyzen]

The hops do not need to be sanitized. I have dry hopped with Hop Union and it's amazing how much an ounce is in whole leaf! Trying to jam them in a carboy is really fun! When dry hopping with whole leaf I lost more beer than I thought I would to absorption trying to rack the beer off. It was also a huge pain with the siphon stopping on me. Practice and some kind of hop sack is the way to go. I threw them in loose which I would not do again. Used a 1 gallon paint strainer around the tip of the auto siphon and it still didn't help much. It also didn't help that I do not secondary so I was dealing with the leaf hops and the yeast cake/trub.

 

[LovesIPA]

Cold crashing will also really help settle hob debris to the bottom of the fermenter.

 

[TxBigHops]

Thanks. I was just concerned that since they are a natural, unprocessed plant material they could have bacteria, small insects, etc. I guess Hop Union takes care of that before they bag them. That's what I was hoping.

I have long thin muslin hop bags that the LHBS shop sold me with the hops. I hadn't thought that I might have trouble getting them into the neck of the carboy. I'll take care to pack them as thinly as possible. Going to tie them up with unwaxed, unscented dental floss (sanitized) and drop them in leaving the end of the floss coming up out of the neck.

I am planning to dry hop for 7 days, then remove the hops and cold crash for 3.5 days before bottling Saturday morning March 8. If they absorb a lot of beer and swell up, am I going to have a problem getting them out of the carboy? (6 gallon better bottle) Or should I just leave them in for the cold crash? If I leave them in, should I wait a few days to start the dry hop so they are still only in there for a total of 7 days?

 

[Croyzen]

I sanitized a funnel and the end of a long plastic spoon. I also sanitized the scissors that cut the package and the outside of the package like you would a yeast packet. Put a little bit at a time in the funnel and jammed them through with the end of the spoon. The next time I use them I will put them in a carboy first and rack the beer on to them. I just don't like racking to a secondary and avoid it if at all possible. I was getting frustrated just jamming them in through a funnel so I can imagine losing my mind trying to deal with shoving hop bags of whole leaf hops into an open carboy of beer. The way i did it some of the hops probably did not fully mix with the beer. Normally I dry hop with pellets and just toss those in also. Much easier to deal with in a carboy and much easier to get the beer out. As far as sanitizing the hops, hops have antibacterial as well as preservative properties so I wouldn't worry. You're more likely to pick up an infection from an open carboy, hop bags, and anything else foreign put in there. Hop union is a pretty good company. Nothing but good experiences with their hops.

 

[Croyzen]

It's hard enough to get them in so I'm not sure I'd plan on getting them out until carboy cleaning time. Your plan would go much smoother with pellet hops since they dissolve and a big portion will fall to the bottom. Dry hopping with leafs is a good case for using a bucket. I'd just leave your hops in. If they are in bags, even if you decide to toss them in if you rack out using a nylon bag or paint strainer to help from sucking up hops on your siphon at least you won't be fighting trub also. I left more beer behind using whole leaf hops than any other method and I hate wasting beer. The beer turned out very good... Two hearted-ish clone out of the beersmith recipe cloud. Only changes i made! dry hopped for 7 rather than the suggested 14 days and used wlp 005 rather than 1056.

 

[CUrchin]

I like hearing how other folks do things- It is helpful.

When I use whole hops I usually use them in the boil. I use an IC to chill, lift my kettle (fun) and dump the wort thru a strainer into a bucket fermenter and then let the whole leaf hops drain out.

For dry hopping I use pellet hops and tea balls for simplicity.

My neighbor grows cascades but doesn't brew, so I usually get a bunch in the fall. They are awesome.

 

[Croyzen]

How do you calculate IBUs with home grown hops? I'd almost think those would be best for dry hopping. Would love to try some sometime.

 

[TxBigHops]

Okay, now you guys are really scaring me. How the hell big are these things??? I'm expecting something like the pic below. If so, I can't imagine I'm going to have that much trouble getting them into a hop bag, and through the neck of the carboy.

On the other hand, if I'm not going to be able to get them back out until I rack the beer to my bottling bucket, then I should probably wait a couple more days to put them in. I assume they will continue to impart aroma to the beer even during the cold crash.

One more question. It seems they are probably going to float, so should I put something heavy into the bottom of the bag to weigh it down into the middle of the carboy, or fine to just let them float?

 

[Adam_Selene]

Okay, now you guys are really scaring me. How the hell big are these things??? I'm expecting something like the pic below. If so, I can't imagine I'm going to have that much trouble getting them into a hop bag, and through the neck of the carboy.

On the other hand, if I'm not going to be able to get them back out until I rack the beer to my bottling bucket, then I should probably wait a couple more days to put them in. I assume they will continue to impart aroma to the beer even during the cold crash.

One more question. It seems they are probably going to float, so should I put something heavy into the bottom of the bag to weigh it down into the middle of the carboy, or fine to just let them float?

Still can't get the spell check to work. Oh, well.

Let them float. Puting them in a bag will make it harder to get them out again. Do the funnel chop stick thing. Then rack the beer down ontop. At first they look half dry, but they eventualy whik the beer up. Some whole hops are like feathers as the cones have come appart. Some varietys usualy have tinny little cute cones like amarillo, or hallertau. Some have big fat cones like centennial CZT, and chinook. It's only a bit more of a pain to get big/intact cones in, or out than it is small, or loose cones in or out. Getting them out sometimes requires multiple rinceings. Not a big deal in the big picture.

When you put the sypohon rod in to rack the beer out again, some of the cones will start to drop, your syphon might get a bit pluged as the transfer comes to an end. It's almost never a serious problam.

--Adam Selene

 

[TxBigHops]

Still can't get the spell check to work. Oh, well.

Let them float. Puting them in a bag will make it harder to get them out again. Do the funnel chop stick thing. Then rack the beer down ontop. At first they look half dry, but they eventualy whik the beer up. Some whole hops are like feathers as the cones have come appart. Some varietys usualy have tinny little cute cones like amarillo, or hallertau. Some have big fat cones like centennial CZT, and chinook. It's only a bit more of a pain to get big/intact cones in, or out than it is small, or loose cones in or out. Getting them out sometimes requires multiple rinceings. Not a big deal in the big picture.

When you put the sypohon rod in to rack the beer out again, some of the cones will start to drop, your syphon might get a bit pluged as the transfer comes to an end. It's almost never a serious problam.

--Adam Selene

Sorry, but with every post I'm getting more and more confused. If I can't get them into a hop bag and down the neck of my carboy, then I sure as heck won't be able to get them to go through any funnel that I own. If I'm not going to use the hop bag (Strongly suggested by the brew club acquaintance/LHBS worker who helped me with my recipe and recommended using whole hops) then why do I need a funnel? Why not just pour them in through the neck of the carboy?

But honestly, I had to deal with a bunch of gunk in the carboy with my first brew, dry hooped with pellets that were loose in the beer, and it wasn't fun. I pretty much avowed then not to ever dry hop again without a bag.

So unless you guys can convince me otherwise, I'm going to wait a couple more days, stuff them somehow into the hop bags, and get them into the carboy. They will spend about 4-5 days in the beer at ambient temperature, then about 3.5 more while cold crashing. Then I will rack to the bottling bucket and worry about getting them back out at that time.

 

[Adam_Selene]

Sorry, but with every post I'm getting more and more confused. If I can't get them into a hop bag and down the neck of my carboy, then I sure as heck won't be able to get them to go through any funnel that I own.

You need a BIG funnle. Just small enough to fit into the neck of the carboy. The bag, once saturated with beer will be harder to pull out, Because your pulling it all out at the same time. Without a big funnel, put the hops in a plastic bag, invirt it and fasten it to the neck of the carboy with an elastic band. Then prod it down through the bag with a chop stick. Gently. Bigger pain. A little more mess. It still works.

If I'm not going to use the hop bag (Strongly suggested by the brew club acquaintance/LHBS worker who helped me with my recipe and recommended using whole hops) then why do I need a funnel? Why not just pour them in through the neck of the carboy?

Because it takes longer, and you spill more if you try to do it faster.

But honestly, I had to deal with a bunch of gunk in the carboy with my first brew, dry hooped with pellets that were loose in the beer, and it wasn't fun. I pretty much avowed then not to ever dry hop again without a bag.

A bag won't make it easyer. You have all of that vegative solid. It's the same mass, pellets or cones. Concentrateing all of it together as you pull the bag out is not not less dificult than a couple rinces.

So unless you guys can convince me otherwise,

You can do it however you like,

--Adam Selene

 

[johngaltsmotor]

In my experience, I found that feeding the empty hop bag through the neck of the carboy and wrapping it around the outside and then stuffing in the hops is easiest. Then tie a loose knot in the hop bag but instead of pulling the open end through pull a section just below through, so you have a loop through the knot. This way when you pull on the end it self-loosens (so you don't have to get the whole knot out to undo it).

As others have said you will loose more beer stuck between the leaves of the whole hops. I would typically consider this my bonus beer and drink it flat after finishing bottling (I've moved to kegging and simply dryhop in the keg now).

I would recommend using your dental floss idea to hold the bag of hops up while you rack to your bottling bucket. This would let them drain a bit longer to minimize waste. I wouldn't worry about miniscule oxidization due to it dripping through air sucked in to replace the beer your transferring.

 

[fearwig]

Many people weight their hop bags so more volatiles are absorbed and not released. Can't speak either way to the effectiveness of that but it makes sense. If you can get the bag out and squeeze it gently in a sanitary way, by all means do (though depending on your bag mesh you might introduce some junk along with the volume and flavor).

 

[Croyzen]

When I dry hop with whole leaf hops next time I will add them to a secondary using a funnel and rack the beer on to it. After you dry hop with these come back and let me know if you think that's a good idea. I'm betting you might.

 

[TxBigHops]

I got side tracked for a couple days, but this morning I finally got my leaf hops into my carboy of IPA. I ended up grabbing a tall narrow beer glass out of the cupboard, sanitizing it, and using it as a support for the hop bag. I poured a few hops in, then stuffed with a plastic spoon, then repeated until they were all in there. Then I sanitized my hands and squeezed the bags into the neck of the carboy. It worked pretty well. I also used the spoon to push the bags down into the beer. I forgot to put a weight into the bag.

When I rack in a week I'll try to pull them out. If they won't come out, then I'll let them hang by the floss to drip while I'm racking.