pears vs apple cider problems

[Timofey Gorlov]

Yesterday I started two hard ciders, apple and pears and I figured out the main difference between them.
I could easily squeeze juice out of apples with the help of kitchen blender and squeezing juice manually through peace of fabric. But I had a problem with the pears because blender produces uniform "jelly" without a pulp that is almost impossible to squeeze afterwards.
Is there any special way for pears?
I guess persimmons will be even more harder that I expect this November.

 

[Jag75]

If cider is a thing you plan to or do a lot I would invest in a fruit press.

 

[dmtaylor]

View attachment 638840 Yesterday I started two hard ciders, apple and pears and I figured out the main difference between them.
I could easily squeeze juice out of apples with the help of kitchen blender and squeezing juice manually through peace of fabric. But I had a problem with the pears because blender produces uniform "jelly" without a pulp that is almost impossible to squeeze afterwards.
Is there any special way for pears?
I guess persimmons will be even more harder that I expect this November.

I have noticed the same problem. The yield is very low from pears or from very soft apples such as overripe Cortland & Mac. So... I don't bother juicing those anymore. Too much hassle. I suppose you might want to try a blend of soft and hard fruit to see if that improves the situation, but I'm not sure if it will help. Another thing I have done is to strain through not just one layer of fabric but from multiple layers, or strain 2 or 3 times, or both. Play around to see what works for you. But yeah it's a pain with very soft fruit.

 

[Timofey Gorlov]

If cider is a thing you plan to or do a lot I would invest in a fruit press.

My be you are right but I want to know in advance what yield of juice it has and why not to buy just kitchen electric juicer.

 

[Timofey Gorlov]

I have noticed the same problem. The yield is very low from pears or from very soft apples such as overripe Cortland & Mac. So... I don't bother juicing those anymore. Too much hassle. I suppose you might want to try a blend of soft and hard fruit to see if that improves the situation, but I'm not sure if it will help. Another thing I have done is to strain through not just one layer of fabric but from multiple layers, or strain 2 or 3 times, or both. Play around to see what works for you. But yeah it's a pain with very soft fruit.

Have you tried different types juicers, or presses?

 

[dmtaylor]

Have you tried different types juicers, or presses?

I have only used a kitchen juicer. Have not tried the blender method or a real press but I envision similar results.

 

[Quaker]

Pears are more difficult in every aspect it seems. They ripen from inside out and thus make it easy to miss their ideal ripeness. Reading up on perry makers, they seem to macerate their pear mash longer before pressing, often with pectinase enzyme added to break done the pectins prior to pressing. I’ve only done 1 batch myself thus far and mine were over ripe. But I did use pectinase and didn’t have an issue pressing.

 

[Chalkyt]

I have used pears (about 5%-10%) mixed with apples because of their high level of sorbitol, a non fermentable sweetener. However I have found that softer pears like Bartlet or Williams do indeed turn to mush if you try to juice or blend them. My attempts at straight Perry (Pear "cider")haven't been too successful.

Harder pears like Nashi or Beurre Bosc will behave a bit like apples if coarsely blended or put through a scatter, but they need to be picked while still firm.

 

[madscientist451]

Dessert pears have a different texture than Perry pears. When dessert pears are ripe, getting the juice out of them is very difficult. A local orchard sells "pear cider" which is juice from their small pears and it is pressed when the fruit is still hard. I've tried to make fermented Perry from this and the results were not acceptable.
Last year I froze pears from my one pear tree for a few weeks, then took the buckets out and let the pears partially thaw and pressed them whole in a fruit press. I got about 2.5 gallons a bushel which I thought was pretty good.
I'm planting some Perry Pears next spring, maybe I'll get a crop in 7-10 years.

 

[Timofey Gorlov]

Pears are more difficult in every aspect it seems. They ripen from inside out and thus make it easy to miss their ideal ripeness. Reading up on perry makers, they seem to macerate their pear mash longer before pressing, often with pectinase enzyme added to break done the pectins prior to pressing. I’ve only done 1 batch myself thus far and mine were over ripe. But I did use pectinase and didn’t have an issue pressing.

Oh, I was thinking about it! Can you please tell more details/instruction about this procedure?

 

[Yooper]

My be you are right but I want to know in advance what yield of juice it has and why not to buy just kitchen electric juicer.

A juice blends the pulp and things into the juice. A press only presses out the juice. You'd have a lot less thick pulp to get rid of once the perry or cider finishes fermenting.

Heck, even with a press, one or two times I had several inches of thick sludge in the carboy when using very soft apples.

 

[Timofey Gorlov]

A juice blends the pulp and things into the juice. A press only presses out the juice. You'd have a lot less thick pulp to get rid of once the perry or cider finishes fermenting.

Heck, even with a press, one or two times I had several inches of thick sludge in the carboy when using very soft apples.

You want to say that pressing out ripened pears directly will be better without preliminary blending it?

 

[Yooper]

yes- blending it means a thick sludge that will mean a ton of sediment, difficulty racking, etc, where pressing gives you much less of that. I use pectic enzyme, which also helps extract more juice and breaks up the pectic better so it clears better.

 

[gregbathurst]

I have been using pears from my trees for about a decade. I have a Buerre bosc, a red sensation and a josephine de Malines tree. I use a refractometer to test the ripeness. I find pears ripen before they soften, with pears softening happens very late in the ripening process, unlike apples. Once pears get to 12 or 13 brix they will be good for milling and pressing, for me they are still firm when they get this ripe (also the pectin increases a lot as pears soften). It is much easier to process pears when still firm, you don't really need to wait for the softening. I blend pear with apple to get better acidity, pears are very low acid. pears naturally have sorbitol, a non-fermentable sugar which gives a nice fruity sweetness, but the levels vary. Some years I get high levels of sorbitol, I think good sunny ripening weather helps. I can tell when there is plenty of sorbitol because it plays up with my guts, pear juice is a popular laxative. Not everyone reacts to sorbitol this way.

https://daa.asn.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/58-3-managing-constipation....pdf

 

[Timofey Gorlov]

You want to say that pressing out ripened pears directly will be better without preliminary blending it?

Pectic enzyme into squeezed juice? Like i

I have been using pears from my trees for about a decade. I have a Buerre bosc, a red sensation and a josephine de Malines tree. I use a refractometer to test the ripeness. I find pears ripen before they soften, with pears softening happens very late in the ripening process, unlike apples. Once pears get to 12 or 13 brix they will be good for milling and pressing, for me they are still firm when they get this ripe (also the pectin increases a lot as pears soften). It is much easier to process pears when still firm, you don't really need to wait for the softening. I blend pear with apple to get better acidity, pears are very low acid. pears naturally have sorbitol, a non-fermentable sugar which gives a nice fruity sweetness, but the levels vary. Some years I get high levels of sorbitol, I think good sunny ripening weather helps. I can tell when there is plenty of sorbitol because it plays up with my guts, pear juice is a popular laxative. Not everyone reacts to sorbitol this way.

https://daa.asn.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/58-3-managing-constipation....pdf

Thanks. Do you use manual press? What is you final juice yield? (Juice weight)/(pear weight). Why do you need acidity, just for better test of acid performs some function?

 

[gregbathurst]

I use a garden shredder to mill the pears and a lancman 80L hydropress, I get around 60% yield. Acidity is for better taste and microbial stability

 

[Quaker]

Oh, I was thinking about it! Can you please tell more details/instruction about this procedure?

Not much to it. After grinding the fruit, add pectinase and let sit overnight. I first added potassium metabisulfite to avoid active fermentation and let sit about 8 hours or so, and then added the pectinase and stored overnight, pressing the next day. I used dosages per the bottle based on volume of fruit rather volume of juice.

No side by side to compare to, so I don’t know what the effect was.

 

[Timofey Gorlov]

Not much to it. After grinding the fruit, add pectinase and let sit overnight. I first added potassium metabisulfite to avoid active fermentation and let sit about 8 hours or so, and then added the pectinase and stored overnight, pressing the next day. I used dosages per the bottle based on volume of fruit rather volume of juice.

No side by side to compare to, so I don’t know what the effect was.

Thanks. I will buy soft pears from store and will try to do this way.

 

[madscientist451]

If you use soft pears, they will be hard to press the juice out of unless you use the freezer method and press them whole.

 

[AzOr]

Suppose someone gets a few boxes of over ripe pears....

Would rice hulls in the press help with extraction?

 

[dmtaylor]

Suppose someone gets a few boxes of over ripe pears....

Would rice hulls in the press help with extraction?

Unlikely. The rice hulls would just permanently soak up a lot of the liquid, reducing yield. I guess you could try it but not certain whether it would help or hurt, but my guess is it would hurt yield more than it helps.

 

[AzOr]

I have used pears (about 5%-10%) mixed with apples because of their high level of sorbitol, a non fermentable sweetener. However I have found that softer pears like Bartlet or Williams do indeed turn to mush if you try to juice or blend them. My attempts at straight Perry (Pear "cider")haven't been too successful.

Harder pears like Nashi or Beurre Bosc will behave a bit like apples if coarsely blended or put through a scatter, but they need to be picked while still firm.

At 10% did you notice any intestinal issues when drinking?

 

[AzOr]

I have access to a whole bunch of neighborhood pears of diff variety. I may try grinding 5-10% pears with apples and then try pressing. Maybe they'll behave better with firmer apples.

 

[Timofey Gorlov]

Ok, after 2 weeks my bubble airlock started to work reversely so air would come from outside to inside. Did anybody had this before?
Anyway I decided to put one part of pear cider into sealed bottle with extra sugar and another part into regular bottle with oak stick. After about a month I will try both and decide which one is better. By the way do I also need to keep it in the darkness for the secondary fermentation?

 

[Chalkyt]

sorry, I missed the earlier question. The answer is no, I didn't have any intestinal issues from adding the pears. Maybe I didn't drink enough!

 

[Hornbrd]

I’m new here and to cider making so let me know if this isn’t the right place to post. I tried making Perry last year from our pear trees at our new house. I bought a press and everything. Once pressed we added pectin and let sit in fridge for 24 hours before pitching champagne yeast. Then we waited a couple weeks before racking to 2nd fermentor. I added some sugar before bottling to try and get carbonation. After a couple weeks of sitting in bottles I tried the Perry. It was okay. The longer it has sat in the bottles the worse it has got. It does not have a vinegar taste or a sour taste. It is hard to explain. It has a smell that hits the nose but the actual taste and flavor aren’t overpowering. I have about 2 gallons bottled that is undrinkable. So my question is, can I pour the bottles back into carboy and add some extra sugar or maybe apple juice concentrate to produce something drinkable? I think not adding any tannin or some type of acidic fruit juice to the mixture at the beginning may have been part of my issue.

 

[dmtaylor]

I’m new here and to cider making so let me know if this isn’t the right place to post. I tried making Perry last year from our pear trees at our new house. I bought a press and everything. Once pressed we added pectin and let sit in fridge for 24 hours before pitching champagne yeast. Then we waited a couple weeks before racking to 2nd fermentor. I added some sugar before bottling to try and get carbonation. After a couple weeks of sitting in bottles I tried the Perry. It was okay. The longer it has sat in the bottles the worse it has got. It does not have a vinegar taste or a sour taste. It is hard to explain. It has a smell that hits the nose but the actual taste and flavor aren’t overpowering. I have about 2 gallons bottled that is undrinkable. So my question is, can I pour the bottles back into carboy and add some extra sugar or maybe apple juice concentrate to produce something drinkable? I think not adding any tannin or some type of acidic fruit juice to the mixture at the beginning may have been part of my issue.

Welcome to the best homebrew forum on the planet.

I'm a fan of blending pear with apple to get better balance, including more acidity and probably more tannin. You could leave your perry in bottles for now, make a fresh batch of hard apple cider, then you could either blend 50/50 in every glass, or else yes you could pop your bottles of perry and do a blend and re-bottle if you want. Either way. But yes I think it will help.

Cheers.

 

[Quaker]

I’m new here and to cider making so let me know if this isn’t the right place to post. I tried making Perry last year from our pear trees at our new house. I bought a press and everything. Once pressed we added pectin and let sit in fridge for 24 hours before pitching champagne yeast. Then we waited a couple weeks before racking to 2nd fermentor. I added some sugar before bottling to try and get carbonation. After a couple weeks of sitting in bottles I tried the Perry. It was okay. The longer it has sat in the bottles the worse it has got. It does not have a vinegar taste or a sour taste. It is hard to explain. It has a smell that hits the nose but the actual taste and flavor aren’t overpowering. I have about 2 gallons bottled that is undrinkable. So my question is, can I pour the bottles back into carboy and add some extra sugar or maybe apple juice concentrate to produce something drinkable? I think not adding any tannin or some type of acidic fruit juice to the mixture at the beginning may have been part of my issue.

Hard to help without a better description of what makes it undrinkable. If it’s acid lacking, you could easily test that with a glass size sample and add some. Ditto with tannin. You absolutely don’t need to add those upfront. Generally perry is said to be far more difficult to make well than cider. Most dessert pears don’t do much. Unless it’s an off flavor, I would give up yet.

 

[Timofey Gorlov]

I’m new here and to cider making so let me know if this isn’t the right place to post. I tried making Perry last year from our pear trees at our new house. I bought a press and everything. Once pressed we added pectin and let sit in fridge for 24 hours before pitching champagne yeast. Then we waited a couple weeks before racking to 2nd fermentor. I added some sugar before bottling to try and get carbonation. After a couple weeks of sitting in bottles I tried the Perry. It was okay. The longer it has sat in the bottles the worse it has got. It does not have a vinegar taste or a sour taste. It is hard to explain. It has a smell that hits the nose but the actual taste and flavor aren’t overpowering. I have about 2 gallons bottled that is undrinkable. So my question is, can I pour the bottles back into carboy and add some extra sugar or maybe apple juice concentrate to produce something drinkable? I think not adding any tannin or some type of acidic fruit juice to the mixture at the beginning may have been part of my issue.

I didn't, t open my cider yet. I will let you know what will it be. I didn't put anything into it. One bottle is carbonated and another one is oak aged as you see from my picture

 

[Imagesmith]

Hi Guys,

I just joined up. I am in Australia - and had a shot at a Perry - last night. I had a fun time doing it, the mess was huge and the yield was little! I picked the pears from a very old tree - I reckon they are Bartlett - I sweated them for about two weeks - checked the ripeness - I think I got them pretty right on average. When I chopped them up some were hard some I could squeeze some juice out.

Anyway, I used my basket press and the yield was very small. So, I used my stainless steel mash paddle the mash them up a bit - then it became like a puree! It was pretty funny at times, as I cranked on the press- shots of must would go out the sides! I pressed about 2 bushels and yielded about 2.5 gallons. I was thinking maybe I could have put a piece of cloth on the inside of the basket - that might have helped ? Any suggestions there?

In the end, I strained the must, and decided to ferment it a 19 litre keg.

I borrowed The New Cider Maker's Handbook - from the library - but very little about Perry. I added some yeast nutrient and used a german white wine yeast - I made no additions.

Generally, I brew beer, some mead when I can get the honey at a good price and often do a batch of red wine with friends. I have done apple cider before but I have generally found that ciders are labour intensive and the end result is about the same as a reasonable commercial cider. Whereas - my beers are in the top bracket of craft beers.

I like the idea of gleaning but I am wondering whether Perrys are worth the effort?

Cheers

Pete