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Vinic

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Messages
81
Reaction score
6
Location
Missouri
Hey folks,

I'm in the process of putting together a setup for all-grain, and thought I'd chronicle the work here both to show off my 'junk' and in hopes of getting some of your expert guidance. Being new to HBT, I've been a bit awestruck by some of the engineering that goes on at every level, not to mention the knowledge base that I have tapped into daily for the past month or so.

A brief background; I've been operating a winery in the woods of South Central Missouri for over 11 years. In a prior life I did a bit of homebrew, but it was put on the back burner while I worked at creating an income from wine. But it's always been in my head to add beer to list of offerings, and it seems like things are coming together quickly for just that. I have the opportunity to do this without going crazy with investments, and having no real demands to answer to. Any income will just be icing on the cake, though we are pretty sure that a customer base already exist and even visits on a regular basis.

So; on to the setup. 'Most all the pieces are going to come from just stuff that's already here. This winery was started in 1972 and there is quite a collection of stainless just lying around collecting dust; creating trip hazards.

I have all winter to get this set up, including running several handfuls of batch's to get the bugs worked out before we're at full production in May. The initial setup is going to be about a 25 gallon batcher, with a relatively easy upgrade to 50 gallon batch.

So the HLT will work for both setups. It looks like holey hell, and is even a little holey (two small holes that will get brazed closed tomorrow). It has 5 ft legs that will allow gravity feed until we get some pumps.

hlt01.jpg


hlt02.jpg

The funky looking coils were put on quite some years ago. Obviously someone was using it for a heat exchange... probably cooling, but there are areas that it's collapsed, so it would take some work to get that working again. The water feeding to this will be heated with an on-demand water heater that should be able to deliver a 180 F liquor. A propane heater will be mounted to boost or maintain the temp.

Now, comes the first real question I have. How important is the depth of the Mash Tun? Noonan talks like it should be 18 to 24", but I think it's worth a try to see if 11" will work with this 25 gallon portable sink:

mlt.jpg

and a top view,

mlt02.jpg

I have a piece of perforated ss for a false bottom, and some ss scrubby for directly over the drain. The bottom will be fitted with a heating element controlled via a pc. Since this is potentially a temporary feature of the bh, I'm gonna go hillbilly on the insulation and just wrap some heavy plastic sheet around it and fill with GreatStuff. I'll also fashion a lid made from the same thing: GreatStuff sandwiched between two plastic sheets. This will allow easy temp probe and sparge arm insertion. Again, it's only expected to be temporary.

The first brew kettle is a 32 gallon rig with a ball valve and another scrubby for a hop catcher:

BrewKettle32.jpg

This will also be propane heated and in such a position to move onto a forklift that will transport the wort from the brew shed to the fermentation cellar.

Sitting in the flanks are a couple 60 gallon SS drums and a nice open top 80 gallon tun that will move in if/when demand calls for it.

The irony of this will be the contrast of the temperature monitor system. One of my highest concerns will be documenting the sequences of mash temps and the effectiveness of a wort cooling setup (yet to be built, beyond just a simple immersible copper coil/well water chiller). And actually the, most work I've done is setting up the monitor system.

Anyway, I doubt there's anybody that will get awed by this setup.. but perhaps it brought a good chuckle. As with my wine, the important thing will be on the results!

 
Nice to see someone else cobbling together parts to put a brewery together, makes me feel better about our setup ;) You obviously have the hard part (fermentation) figured out, being a winemaker. Now all you need is enough equip to make the wort. So far so good, keep us updated!
 
Where at in South Central MO are you? Home base for me is Versailles.

Hey Bull,

We're about 2 hours from you, on the Meramec River, just outside of Steelville.

http://www.PeacefulBend.com

Your name and location makes me think of Bull Rock Brewery up near Jeff City. Are you familiar with them? I have never been there but drank a growler or three of theirs. Heard they were up for sale and was curious about their status.
 
The mash/lauter tun I described earlier was put to test earlier this week, and there was at least one feature to this rig that I thought some folks here might find of interest. I opted for a very simple strainer in place of a false bottom that was in the original design.

strainer.JPG

I found this at a local Doit Hardware store, but it's also available online:

I was quite thrilled with how this worked, and even though I shorted myself with sparge water, the efficiency realized was, for me, acceptable at 81%, even after adjusting the wort volume with straight well water.

Much of what I wanted to record here seemed out of place for this DIY Projects Category, so I started a blog to log the excruciating details.

Hope everyone has a happy set of holidays!​
 
are you fermenting in the boil kettle, or just using the forklift to move it to where it will be drained into feremntation vessels?

Maybe I read too fast over that...

Way to cobble it together though. I could probably salvage a whole brewery in my work's junkyard... just need to work out GA law!
 
Hey Bull,

We're about 2 hours from you, on the Meramec River, just outside of Steelville.

http://www.PeacefulBend.com

Your name and location makes me think of Bull Rock Brewery up near Jeff City. Are you familiar with them? I have never been there but drank a growler or three of theirs. Heard they were up for sale and was curious about their status.

Vinic and Bull,
You guys are making me homesick. I used to live in North Wye, outside of Rolla!!

Vinic, looks like your going to be pumping out a good quantity of beer. Wish I had that equipment laying around!
 
are you fermenting in the boil kettle, or just using the forklift to move it to where it will be drained into feremntation vessels?

Maybe I read too fast over that...

Way to cobble it together though. I could probably salvage a whole brewery in my work's junkyard... just need to work out GA law!

I can't imagine how you'd mis-read something in one of my post! ;)

For this run, I used the same tank for both a hot liquor tank and a fermentor, heating the sparge water in the brew kettle, draining into the hlt and then forklifting into position. It's a little overkill as fas as size is concerned, but it was nice not to have to worry about any overflow, and I'll be racking into cornie's either tonight or tomorrow. This 'soupcan' style tank (it's the one on top in the setup photos) has a little bit of a conical shape and I was going to see how well I might be able to recover some yeast from the bottom valve, even though I've read that propagating yeast from dry package is not the best practice. Just want to see how it comes out of the tank (clean of trub or whatnot). We will be setting up a yeast ranch (always gives me a giggle.... picturing a yeast rustler here) within the very near future.

The other technique I'd like to try, which will be an adaptation from winemaking, and I'm very interested in some experienced brewer's viewpoints on this, was doing some "rifling". In winemaking, it's not unusual to add some fresh juice to a fermenting must. Many times it's just a logistics thing in the cellar, but it also can save a package of yeast here and there. I will probably hold my brew batch sizes to 20 or 25 gallons until we see what type of demand we have commercially, but I have some fermentors suitable for beer upwards of 300 gallons in size. So I'm interested to see if I can brew a subsequent batch of the same beer a couple days later and just add it to an already fermenting batch. Any comments or foreseen problems with this?​
 
Vinic and Bull,
You guys are making me homesick. I used to live in North Wye, outside of Rolla!!

Vinic, looks like your going to be pumping out a good quantity of beer. Wish I had that equipment laying around!

I have few other tanks sitting around that are not so good for winemaking. Might learn how to weld (again) by the time this is all said 'n done.

There's a surge of brewpubs and microbrews popping up in this area now. Several are very much what we're doing.... adding a beerery to a winery. But there are two that should open in Rolla by Spring as just brewpubs. You might remember Zeno's, the established establishment of Steak House; I've heard word of them adding a brewpub. And then there's these guys who have started renovating an old church at the edge of downtown:

Public House Brewing Company
 
Hi I am near you also. Brumley, up near lake of the ozarks

We drive through Brumley on the way to the Lake. Is there a LHBS close for you? I can't picture one closer than Ozark, MO. We make regular deliveries to most of the major cities in Missouri, so can usually snag stuff on the way. Mostly at St. Louis Wine and Beermaking. Very nice folks there.

Also, is anybody growing hops around us that you know. I have at least one neighbor that wants to get involved by planting some, and we are also looking at putting a few rows in here this spring. Interested in what might be tolerant of our climate!?

One more side note; a grapegrower of ours over in Perryville made noises about growing some barley for us. Said he use to grow a fair amount for chicken feed (that's actual feed, not "grown cheaply" ;) ) From what I read, we'd have trouble with 2-row here, but it'd be fun to have some local grown, even if it was 6-row. I wonder where AB is getting theirs from? I know they have a big mill in St. Peters Missouri, but they most likely truck it in from up north. But that farmer in Perryville also said he had a mill for me to look at. As you might imagine, that got my attention. He said "It's only got a 5 HP motor on it, but runs pretty smooth". I just smiled and nodded. Be interesting to see either way!​
 
I just started brewing 4-5 months ago. There is a guy in Jefferson City that runs a hbs out of his repair shop 1 day a week, on Friday. Haven't talked to him yet, just drove by it. I still do just extract brew but will do a "brew in a bag" AG here in the next month or so.

I get to Ozark a few times a year, as I have a friend in Springfield.

My wife likes wine, let me know of some of your products that I could get locally and we will try them. I just can't stand the stuff though. I found one at octoberfest in Hermann this year that I could tolerate but not really enjoy, so I don't remember what it was. Let me know when you get something ready and I will stop by for a sample.
 
I just started brewing 4-5 months ago. There is a guy in Jefferson City that runs a hbs out of his repair shop 1 day a week, on Friday. Haven't talked to him yet, just drove by it. I still do just extract brew but will do a "brew in a bag" AG here in the next month or so.

That must be Mugsy's. I've stopped by there once, didn't have a whole lot. Cool Stuff in Columbia has some supplies as well.
 
The other technique I'd like to try, which will be an adaptation from winemaking, and I'm very interested in some experienced brewer's viewpoints on this, was doing some "rifling". In winemaking, it's not unusual to add some fresh juice to a fermenting must. Many times it's just a logistics thing in the cellar, but it also can save a package of yeast here and there. I will probably hold my brew batch sizes to 20 or 25 gallons until we see what type of demand we have commercially, but I have some fermentors suitable for beer upwards of 300 gallons in size. So I'm interested to see if I can brew a subsequent batch of the same beer a couple days later and just add it to an already fermenting batch. Any comments or foreseen problems with this

I am NOT that experienced brewer... you need to pick the brains of kaiser, brewpastor, nqx3 (Bob... not sure if that is his handle... serch brewery consultant) and have you heard of probrewer.com?

But since I am bored, let me apply logic and reason to your question. This will, if nothing else, serve as a bump and pull the question to the top of the heap.

I believe I have heard of a brewery that had larger fermentation capacity than mash capacity ( no citation on that, sorry) that would start fermentation then pump in additional wort. I can see no reason to not do this in the application of my homebrew knowledge, it would be similiar to ramp up a high gravity brew by incrementaly adding fermentables.

On the other hand, if you are meaning to drain off 95% (arbitrary number) of an actively (or finished?) fermenting batch and add a fresh batch of wort in, I believe your answer would come in the form of warnings about sanitation and degradation of yeast over mulitiple generations. I was doing this just repitching a fresh wort unto a cake I had just racked a finished beer off of. Bob suggested that I was being lazy (true) and demanded I harvest the proper amount of yeast into a fresh fermenter. I would think you would build up a LARGE yeast cake in no time flat as well...

So I am not sure which you are thinking. Again... I am a hack who likes to read and think about situations like this that are beyond my skills, just so I can hear what I am doing wrong or where my thinking is correct.
 
I am NOT that experienced brewer... you need to pick the brains of kaiser, brewpastor, nqx3 (Bob... not sure if that is his handle... serch brewery consultant) and have you heard of probrewer.com?

Yea, my intent is to pick a few brew brains here. Have been gleaning tons of info over the past month or so in the lurk mode.

I'm signed up on probrewer too, but much of what I'm doing is actually going to be more on the HBT level for awhile. Besides that, there's some pretty advanced stuff on here that many pros would not attempt. In my experience, most pros are much more likely to pull out the checkbook than to try to engineer something on their own. In many situation that makes sense, but that ain't my situation!

I believe I have heard of a brewery that had larger fermentation capacity than mash capacity ( no citation on that, sorry) that would start fermentation then pump in additional wort. I can see no reason to not do this in the application of my homebrew knowledge, it would be similiar to ramp up a high gravity brew by incrementaly adding fermentables.

This is exactly what I'd like to be doing, and for the same reason. I will have a refrigeration unit available by the time outdoor temps start to rise, but until then, cooling capacity is the largest factor in restricting my brew size. So doing two 25 gallon batches in a day is much more attractive to me at the moment, than going after one 50 gallon batch. I don't think it'll add that much more time onto the day, as strike water can be heating while one mash has started, then second batch can be mashing while first one is boiling, etc.

And as far as just tossing around ideas, I'm all for it at this stage. I only have one AG under my belt at this point, and the verdict is still out on that one!! So I'm not one to pass judgement (or know any better;) ).​
 
I cannot think of any reason that would not work. If it is the same day, you would probably have it in before the yeast were even in full krausen.
 
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