Other states saturated with low quality micros?

[rawlus]

Don't really have this problem in New England. Some of the smallest and newest are putting out excellent stuff.

 

[mattd2]

Ya know whats going to be even more important than good beer. Good business model and business plan.
If these upstarts dont have a marketing genius at the helm along with a talented brewmaster then they are doomed.
And it will only get harder.

It is surprising what bad products do sell when they have good marketing... I'm sure some people on here can think of some examples
I agree that there are a lot of different hats one must wear when owner/operating a microbrewery... and the brewer hat is probably the least worn! But I think it more important to be consitantly good at all aspects of the business than a superstar at one and fail the others. Most of the new start ups do not have the resources to hire a marketing guy or accomplished brewmaster. What they do have is good homebrew recipes (some awards should be in there) and pasion... and the need to either have, or learn, the running a business side and do it quickly.
I would think good beer would be something you would consider to be part of your business model... but I'm sure some of these breweries don't think that is an important part of their business plan, I mean how important is a product that the customer will enjoy anyway, I'll make 6 styles and some seasonal so they'll at least try 2-3 before they give up and leave ... fail

Make sure you have a good product, make sure you promote your good product (effectivly) and make sure you manage your cashflow/taxes...
While a marketing genius might be able to convince customers to try your product once, if it is crap they won't try it again and worst still tell their freinds it is crap.

 

[runkelia]

It is surprising what bad products do sell when they have good marketing... I'm sure some people on here can think of some examples
I agree that there are a lot of different hats one must wear when owner/operating a microbrewery... and the brewer hat is probably the least worn! But I think it more important to be consitantly good at all aspects of the business than a superstar at one and fail the others.
I would think good beer would be something you would consider to be part of your business model... but I'm sure some of these breweries don't think that is an important part of their business plan, I mean how important is a product that the customer will enjoy anyway, I'll make 6 styles and some seasonal so they'll at least try 2-3 when they visit... fail

I have heard rumor that Genesee beer, a bottom tier beer out of Rochester, NY, is being marketed in California as a craft beer. God help us if this is true.

 

[FarmerTed]

I was in in the Buffalo area for 5 days last month, and I agree with you that it's a beer desert. NY has such goofy laws, where beer is basically only sold in gas stations and grocery stores, or the random beverage places. Anytime I've been anywhere in the sate, it's really difficult to find a bottle shop with a large varity of craft beers. In the small town I live in, there are 2 liquor stores that have a better beer selection than anything I've seen anywhere in NY.

 

[Clonefan94]

Breweries right now, kind of remind me of the comedy boom back in the 80s. Everyone wanted to see comedians, so everyone and their brother was opening a comedy room. I'm afraid the craft brew thing is going that same route, but just as there are only so many good comedians, there is only so much good beer. Once people start exposing themselves more and more to craft beer, the sub-par brewers will be out of business. We'll see, but I have to admit, I'd rather see more beer than less beer, even if I have to wade through a few stinkers to find a great one.

 

[Calichusetts]

Don't really have this problem in New England. Some of the smallest and newest are putting out excellent stuff.

Agreed. Not only is my state doing great things, but the short geographical distance in the region means several states get their hands on top quality breweries. I can physically travel to most breweries in New England in a few hours tops. Mass breweries are really starting to shine, taking down a few gold medals and growing in both popularity and beer lists. I am really grateful to be in this state.

That said, there are a few embarrassing breweries around here too. A few that really have a hold in bars and continue to make it due to tourism in the area and curiosity. A few more will most likely pass but I am very pleased with the scene in my neck of the woods.

 

[judsonp]

NY has such goofy laws, where beer is basically only sold in gas stations and grocery stores, or the random beverage places. Anytime I've been anywhere in the sate, it's really difficult to find a bottle shop with a large varity of craft beers. In the small town I live in, there are 2 liquor stores that have a better beer selection than anything I've seen anywhere in NY.

In the town I live in in Upstate NY, there are two excellent beer stores that have a serious variety of craft beers. The grocery store also has a pretty solid variety of craft beers (and that grocery store is Wegmans, so there's that).

So, going to have to disagree with you there, at least for some places in NY.

On the up side, I'm pleased that half this thread is apparently about breweries in my area. I went to Abandon the weekend they opened and tried almost everything. If you get a chance, also stop by Hopshire.

 

[TopherJohn]

Having moved recently to Buffalo from Southern California, I was worried that my quality of beer life was going to take a plunge. SoCal has some mighty fine breweries. But, a little diligent research led me to find Village Beer Merchant, with two locations (one not more than a mile from my front door). They have a great selection, including taps for filling growlers. There's also Premier, which is a liquor store and gourmet grocery. Because of the flocc'd up blue laws, a liquor store can't sell food (including Angostura Bitters - it's classified as food) and a grocery can't sell wine. But at Premier the two stores share a common entrance and vestibule. The grocery has three isles devoted to all manor of beer, foreign and domestic. They also have a very high tech 12 tap growler filling station that purges the jug with CO2 before the beer gently cascades down the sides. And they have a great selection for growlers. Last time I was there they had Bear Republic (Bay area) Racer X - the imperial version of their Racer V IPA, and Black Racer (guess the style?)

You can also fill growlers at many gas stations, but those setup are sketchy at best in the hygiene department.

The local stuff isn't so bad, though I prefer Southern Tier and Ellicott to Flying Bison. Community Beer Works is ok, too. I went to a home brew event at a local art gallery, and some of the guys there were avid home brewers about to open their own brewery in South Buffalo. They hope to be ready sometime this spring. They didn't have samples, but they were. Ice guys, very passionate about the brew, and had some interesting styles lined up. Well, I thought the sounded interesting at the time, but I don't remember what they were. Other folks had samples... Anyway, the brewery will be called Rusty Nickel. I hope they're awesome. More good breweries!

Lastly, there was a big beer festival here in August, and some of the best beer I had was from Three Heads Brewing out of Rochester, which someone else here hated. Their Saison actually tasted like a saison. Beer is beautifully subjective.

 

[Tinga]

We've got the same problem here in MN. Lots of people jumping in on the fad before they should. I used to get excited when I saw a new brewery in MN or WI on the shelves but now I get apprehensive. I have been let down many many times. With that said there are also some good new companies and I think that that makes it all worth it.

 

[RonPopeil]

it's where things are right now. it's actually a good thing. sure a lot will fail but when that actually does happen people will be much more knowledgeable about beer and capable of making those decisions. there will be casualties but it will be a better world to live in.

 

[bovineblitz]

I was in in the Buffalo area for 5 days last month, and I agree with you that it's a beer desert. NY has such goofy laws, where beer is basically only sold in gas stations and grocery stores, or the random beverage places. Anytime I've been anywhere in the sate, it's really difficult to find a bottle shop with a large varity of craft beers. In the small town I live in, there are 2 liquor stores that have a better beer selection than anything I've seen anywhere in NY.

Albany has a ridiculous beer store (like really ridiculous). There's a good one in Ithaca. Rochester and Binghamton both have pretty decent ones. Other than that, you're going to want to go to Wegmans for the most part.

I don't have a hard time at all in most of NY, but I haven't really tried to find anything in the Buffalo area specifically.

 

[bovineblitz]

Having moved recently to Buffalo from Southern California, I was worried that my quality of beer life was going to take a plunge. SoCal has some mighty fine breweries. But, a little diligent research led me to find Village Beer Merchant, with two locations (one not more than a mile from my front door). They have a great selection, including taps for filling growlers. There's also Premier, which is a liquor store and gourmet grocery. Because of the flocc'd up blue laws, a liquor store can't sell food (including Angostura Bitters - it's classified as food) and a grocery can't sell wine. But at Premier the two stores share a common entrance and vestibule. The grocery has three isles devoted to all manor of beer, foreign and domestic. They also have a very high tech 12 tap growler filling station that purges the jug with CO2 before the beer gently cascades down the sides. And they have a great selection for growlers. Last time I was there they had Bear Republic (Bay area) Racer X - the imperial version of their Racer V IPA, and Black Racer (guess the style?)

You can also fill growlers at many gas stations, but those setup are sketchy at best in the hygiene department.

The local stuff isn't so bad, though I prefer Southern Tier and Ellicott to Flying Bison. Community Beer Works is ok, too. I went to a home brew event at a local art gallery, and some of the guys there were avid home brewers about to open their own brewery in South Buffalo. They hope to be ready sometime this spring. They didn't have samples, but they were. Ice guys, very passionate about the brew, and had some interesting styles lined up. Well, I thought the sounded interesting at the time, but I don't remember what they were. Other folks had samples... Anyway, the brewery will be called Rusty Nickel. I hope they're awesome. More good breweries!

Lastly, there was a big beer festival here in August, and some of the best beer I had was from Three Heads Brewing out of Rochester, which someone else here hated. Their Saison actually tasted like a saison. Beer is beautifully subjective.

Three Heads is great, particularly anything hoppy.

 

[danorocks17]

Indy has seen a lot of micros pop up the last few years. It's probably a drop in the bucket compared to NY, but I have to say a majority of them make really good beer. Each place has a least one beer I think is awesome.

 

[PIGMAN]

Blue Point Brewery on Long Island is great.

 

[Ilan34]

Albany has a ridiculous beer store (like really ridiculous)..

Oliver's?

Troy has a really nice one, too: Hoosick Beverage. They even have a rewards card, oh man. Like I need further enticement.

 

[JBOGAN]

Glad i clicked on this one almost wrote a similar post a couple days ago about Michigan.Saturation here is becoming par for the course and I do not see it slowing down anytime soon.Picked up a Michigan beer guide magazine and read through almost two and a half pages of breweries soon to open.It is a little discouraging when you have the dream to open one for yourself but i will just wait out the tide and perfect my own recipes and learn.

The problem i see with the smaller brew pubs opening up is this obsession to make mostly over the top beers.If they could nail a style without going crazy then the better off they would be..Walked into a few smaller start ups and when i looked at their beer list i have always encountered more than a few SMH beers.Chocolate cherry mint tripel,why? Can i just get a nice solid Tripel or is it that horrid that you need to confuse my taste buds into saying "not too sure about this one'.

On the other hand there is a brewery less than 7 miles from me that has been open for more than 7 years and the beer they produce is down right nasty.Went there once and had a 9 sample beer flight with the SWMBO(both of us have great palletes).To start off each sample was almost at room temp and to finish they all had the same yeast character...We each had a less than a quarter sample of all nine looked at eac hother and said never again.

 

[johngaltsmotor]

There are just too many people who think "it would be cool to own a brewery" who have no reason owning a brewery. They're not avid home brewers. They're not entrepreneurs looking for a business. They think that because they like beer they should start a brewery.

Ohio definitely isn't saturated, especially with low quality. As with most micros, they each have a few good/great beers and some recipes that need work. The biggest problem in Ohio is a slow growth in beer culture. When people are raised on BMC they don't want to try new things. So a lot of the micros are putting out light beers and uber-pale ales to try to convert people. And all you do then is ruin your reputation with people who prefer beer over yellow water.

 

[Darwin18]

Raleigh area is starting to get overly saturated. We have a few really good breweries and the rest are mostly okay. A couple are not very good, but they won't be around for very long.

 

[Mojzis]

I have heard Three Heads in Rochester mentioned a few times. As far as I know they aren't a brewery, I believe CB's or Saranac contracts for them. Good though. The only beers I have had from Ellicotville or Blue Point have been blueberry something and a toasted lager. Not very good, but I'm willing to search out others. Surprisingly, Genesee has a small pilot/tourist 7bbl system set up right next door to the big brewery and they usually have 3 craft beers on tap (not Genny or Dundee crap) that are damn good.

Wegmans is my go-to store for beer usually. I have had just about everything they offer now except a few things. Recently they have been selling Bell's, which is awesome. When I want a larger selection I go to Beers of the World.

However my point wasn't that its hard to get good beer in NY. I'm just seeing an over abundance of bad breweries that I feel are getting the tourists to purchase from them. But maybe it will make other/better ones move in next. I hope. It would be great to have a few really good breweries putting out fantastic stuff.

I was in Salisbury MD for work and a place called Evolution brewing was right across the street from the hotel. Every beer was good or great and the food was just as good. I was disappointed to be back here after two weeks of going there.

 

[JohnSand]

They're sprouting like mushrooms on Long Island, some good, some great, some mediocre. I'm not crazy about Blue Point, though I like their winter. Great South Bay has some great brews, so does Spider Bite. Port Jeff is hit or miss for me. But I find that most bars will let me taste for free, so I find something good. The breweries often let you sample too. As above, sometimes I see something interesting in the store. Maybe it's good, or great, or a source for bottles. Many companies and some stores now sell mixed sixes or variety packs. A nice opportunity to try things.
I'm not unsympathetic to your gripe. I do want to drink local craft beer, I was disappointed by my latest try of a new brewery. Another time I bought a growler of local saison, only to find that my own was better. Drink and learn.

 

[Cider123]

I notice that several micro's are into making high ABV beers only. IDK if it's because they figure most customers are attracted to a high alcohol content? I recall a place where they didn't have a beer on tap below 7-8%, and every beer was extreme in some flavor. Either highly hopped IPA's or very syrupy stouts. You see this same concept in brand new brewers who just start out with a kit and want to make cherry vanilla chocolate imperial stout.

I guess I mostly thought of brewpubs not making beer to my taste and less about the quality. IDK, I suppose I gave them the benefit of the doubt that if they opened a brewpub then they must have some idea of what they are doing from the brewing technique. Silly me.

I am a better judge of a brewpub's quality by the food they put out.

 

[IanJ]

It's definitely happening in the NYC area, not going to name anyone because it's unfair. Don't want to be a jerk, I'm sure they're trying (for the most part).

However it's worth pointing out that some of these places are likely being started by a guy who read an article in the NY Times saying that craft beer was "becoming popular," then dumped a bunch of money into opening a brewery thinking he'll massively profitable. In the end it just ruins the industry for serious folks who started with homebrewing and are working their way up to a practical business with great beer, for the right reasons. Not to say this is reality, could just be a trend.

Anyway, I've been let down by some beers lately and it hurts... because local is something I really stand behind.

 

[SimonHucko]

had a couple come into the brew pub where I work last week and start talking about how they were going to open a brewery because "craft beer is in and we got a big grant from the state so why not?" later in the conversation the guy says "I don't brew beer, but my friends do so they're going to give us some recipes."

it's great that NY is making it easier for breweries to open and providing good incentives, but I think it is attracting people to the business that are looking at it as a way to make an easy buck, and they're going to find out it's not so easy. my theory is that in 3-5 years there's going to be a lot of used small-scale equipment on the market for cheap... I also think the ones still in business will be the ones making quality beer and not just jumping on the craft bandwagon.

just my $0.02

 

[Mojzis]

But if you taste soemthing you don't like you should tell the brewery - they can either get butthurt over it and ignore your feedback and never get better = fail. Or they can take you advice onboard and check to see if they have an issue or just a bad recipe.

I wasn't sure if I should tell them or not that I found some odd/bad/terrible flavors or aromas in their beer. Maybe I will shoot them an email. Maybe they will get butthurt or they might fix it and start producing good beer (or so I hope).

 

[mattd2]

I wasn't sure if I should tell them or not that I found some odd/bad/terrible flavors or aromas in their beer. Maybe I will shoot them an email. Maybe they will get butthurt or they might fix it and start producing good beer (or so I hope).

What do you have to lose, either:
1) They get butthurt and send you back a rude response - then you get to post it in here and we can all have a laugh
2) They tell you it is actually supposed to taste like that
3) They fix their beer

I feel like a laugh so I might be sinical and hope for #1

 

[day_trippr]

Well, hell, if you're gonna be hopeful, go with:

#4 They appreciate the feedback and send you a case of a good batch.

Cheers!

 

[mattd2]

Well, hell, if you're gonna be hopeful, go with:

#4 They appreciate the feedback and send you a case of a good batch.

Cheers!

That would trump #1!

 

[Facinerous]

Since this is an opinion thread I would like to throw in a thought.

I would just like to compare breweries to walking into the store and looking through the beer selection. Of course there are miles or blocks between breweries, but at the store you get everything side by side.

Imagine the last time you walked in the store to grab some beer. Some people walk right past the BMC area, some people go straight to the BMC area. When the former of the two get to the craft brews, the arms cross and its selection time.

Including the BMC area with the craft brews, count how many beers you have had that you like, don't like, really liked, and hated.

Of course your pallet is going to do the choosing, and someone else is going to have a different opinion. I'm willing to bet that the ratio from hated to really liked, considering all the items, would be extremely comparable from person so person.

So I believe that the micros out there are within the same ratio of like to dislike as the big guys.

I agree that the reason a person would go into business would vary. From making the best beer they can to making the most money per volume of beer they can. In the long run some will fail and some will flourish.

I personally enjoy moving around from one brewery to another and seeing what they have out there. I even enjoy when I don't like a beer for whatever reason, but my buddy was just raving about it a few days prior.

I'm just happy I have a choice when it comes to picking what beer I want to drink.

 

[TopherJohn]

Addendum: I visited a local brewpub, close to my new attending gig. I've heard the food is not great but needed to kill time before my bus came. I ordered a Belgian style first.

1) poured it into a pint glass. Now, I know lots of places use only one glass for beer, but it seems to me if the people running the place had any love for real beer the glass would have been appropriate to the style

2) I had to stop the bartender from putting a lemon in my beer.
No. Fruit. In. Beer!!

The beer looked good and it had a nice aroma but the flavor was thin. Orange and coriander were present, but barely, and I was missing any yeast coming through.

I had a porter too (the bus was a ways off) that was also only ok. Again, kind of thin in flavor. I'll probably try more of their beer over time, but it is only meh there.

 

[Mojzis]

Finally made it to Abandon and Climbing Bines. Both are great. Too bad they are 1.5 hours away. Those are the kinds of places I wish were around here.